Question about maqam rast for those with strong 12-equal interval categories

These are two pieces by Munir Bashir in rast:

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3G7VW1RMks

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5xqD_t11ig

These are both in rast, but to me, the first one has sort of a "major"
feel to it, whereas the second has more of a "minor" feel. The first
one has moments where I hear it as unquestionably "neutral," like a
whole new thing giving me a whole new experience and so on. But I
never quite escape the notion that the second one is leaning towards
"minor," as though the third is about 330 cents or so.

Anyone else have the same experience? This one also sounds kind of
"major" to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3CCz6LWzNc&feature=related

-Mike

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> These are two pieces by Munir Bashir in rast:
>
> 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3G7VW1RMks
>
> 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5xqD_t11ig
>
> These are both in rast, but to me, the first one has sort of a "major"
> feel to it, whereas the second has more of a "minor" feel. The first
> one has moments where I hear it as unquestionably "neutral," like a
> whole new thing giving me a whole new experience and so on. But I
> never quite escape the notion that the second one is leaning towards
> "minor," as though the third is about 330 cents or so.
>
> Anyone else have the same experience? This one also sounds kind of
> "major" to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3CCz6LWzNc&feature=related

The following are completely subjective impressions and associations that I'm sure won't make sense to many people.

To me the first one sounded totally neutral, like something in a scale that doesn't have a "third" in it at all, like slendro, or like the "F G Bb C Eb F" mode of pentatonic. Neither major nor minor at all.

The second one definitely sounded more major than minor to me. (I had to check and make sure I didn't get the links mixed up, because I felt sure you would say the same thing!) I think it might be the sixth and seventh degrees of the scale that bias me into hearing it that way, but I honestly don't know. It's just a general impression. Sounds "major" or "mixolydian" or whatever.

Third one also sounds vaguely major, similar to the second.

Keenan

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@...>
wrote:
>
> The following are completely subjective impressions and associations that
> I'm sure won't make sense to many people.
>
> To me the first one sounded totally neutral, like something in a scale
> that doesn't have a "third" in it at all, like slendro, or like the "F G Bb
> C Eb F" mode of pentatonic. Neither major nor minor at all.

I'm bamboozled.

> The second one definitely sounded more major than minor to me. (I had to
> check and make sure I didn't get the links mixed up, because I felt sure you
> would say the same thing!) I think it might be the sixth and seventh degrees
> of the scale that bias me into hearing it that way, but I honestly don't
> know. It's just a general impression. Sounds "major" or "mixolydian" or
> whatever.

Now I'm flabbergasted. I hear "minor" or "dorian" or whatever. In
fact, I don't even want to flip my brain into hearing it the other way
because I like this way so much and I'm afraid I'll get stuck and not
be able to get back.

> Third one also sounds vaguely major, similar to the second.

This is non-flabbergasting to me.

-Mike

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> These are two pieces by Munir Bashir in rast:
>
> 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3G7VW1RMks
>
> 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5xqD_t11ig
>
> These are both in rast, but to me, the first one has sort of a
> "major" feel to it, whereas the second has more of a "minor" feel.
> The first one has moments where I hear it as unquestionably
> "neutral," like a whole new thing giving me a whole new experience
> and so on. But I never quite escape the notion that the second one
> is leaning towards "minor," as though the third is about 330 cents
> or so.
>
> Anyone else have the same experience?

As for me, in both there are moments where I hear them as "neutral" - but indeed, the first one tends more toewards "major" while the second one more towards "minor". Funny thing. Extremely beautiful, all of them, in any case...

> This one also sounds kind of "major" to me:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3CCz6LWzNc&feature=related
>

This one, in turn, sounds more "minor" to me... But it seems not the whole thing is in Rast, there are also moments where I hear the Hijaz tetrachord.
--
Hans Straub

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "hstraub64" <straub@...> wrote:

> > Anyone else have the same experience?
>
> As for me, in both there are moments where I hear them as "neutral" - but indeed, the first one tends more toewards "major" while the second one more towards "minor". Funny thing. Extremely beautiful, all of them, in any case...

It all just sounds xenharmonic to me.

I think the phrasing is what's throwing you. Intonationally, the second one is a bit looser, and there also isn't a second oud providing some drones. More importantly, the second one is phrased a bit more solemnly, while the first one is a bit more upbeat. They both sound like the same scale to me. I should note, though--Rast (in quartertones) is 0-200-350-500-700-900-1050-1200 cents, and I can clearly hear whenever they play the 500-700-900 sequence as sounding "majory", because it *is* "majory". The more emphasis they put on the major 6th, the more "sunny" it sounds, and the first one emphasizes that interval more often.

Of course, I also play in rast in 17-TET all the friggin' time, so I may be more accustomed to it than others. To me it's really just rast, it has a flavor like major but a bit more "stern" or "mature"..."major" is a little boy smiling, rast is an old man smiling....

-Igs

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> These are two pieces by Munir Bashir in rast:
>
> 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3G7VW1RMks
>
> 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5xqD_t11ig
>
> These are both in rast, but to me, the first one has sort of a "major"
> feel to it, whereas the second has more of a "minor" feel. The first
> one has moments where I hear it as unquestionably "neutral," like a
> whole new thing giving me a whole new experience and so on. But I
> never quite escape the notion that the second one is leaning towards
> "minor," as though the third is about 330 cents or so.
>
> Anyone else have the same experience? This one also sounds kind of
> "major" to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3CCz6LWzNc&feature=related
>
> -Mike
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> These are two pieces by Munir Bashir in rast:
>
> 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3G7VW1RMks
>
> 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5xqD_t11ig
>
> These are both in rast, but to me, the first one has sort of a "major"
> feel to it, whereas the second has more of a "minor" feel. The first
> one has moments where I hear it as unquestionably "neutral," like a
> whole new thing giving me a whole new experience and so on. But I
> never quite escape the notion that the second one is leaning towards
> "minor," as though the third is about 330 cents or so.
>
> Anyone else have the same experience? This one also sounds kind of
> "major" to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3CCz6LWzNc&feature=related
>
> -Mike
>

Is a redhead a blonde or a brunette?

These sound like Rast to me, but I think I hear what you're saying- there are also strawberry blonde and auburn. Still I don't think we'd insist that these must be either blonde or brunette.