Any free software for arbitrary scale playing?

I wish I had time to get into more details about all sorts of thoughts I haven't shared with the group in several years...

But, to the immediate point:

I'm teaching a class. I want to find a tool, software I mean mainly, that is free that I can recommend to students that would allow them to try a random bunch of pitches to make their own scale. The catch: I want it to be without reference to any existing system.

What I'm imagining is basically a sampler, like a drum-sampler, where it is just a bunch of arbitrary pads / boxes to click. Each could trigger a pitch specified just by frequency or something.

The goal is to get my students to explore and see what happens if they just try to make scales by trial-and-error. I want to have them get that experience before I start teaching them explicitly about ratios and temperament...

Any possible suggestions??

Thanks,
Aaron Wolf
wolftune.com

here you go

the only tracker with microtonal capabilities built in for samples and can
you midi or pc keyboard as a trigger and is free.

http://openmpt.org/

Chris

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, AWolf <wolftune@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I wish I had time to get into more details about all sorts of thoughts I
> haven't shared with the group in several years...
>
> But, to the immediate point:
>
> I'm teaching a class. I want to find a tool, software I mean mainly, that
> is free that I can recommend to students that would allow them to try a
> random bunch of pitches to make their own scale. The catch: I want it to be
> without reference to any existing system.
>
> What I'm imagining is basically a sampler, like a drum-sampler, where it
> is just a bunch of arbitrary pads / boxes to click. Each could trigger a
> pitch specified just by frequency or something.
>
> The goal is to get my students to explore and see what happens if they
> just try to make scales by trial-and-error. I want to have them get that
> experience before I start teaching them explicitly about ratios and
> temperament...
>
> Any possible suggestions??
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron Wolf
> wolftune.com
>
>
>

Dear Aaron Wolf,

without my answer being referring to a sampler, it could help your approach in just letting your students explore a scale by trial and error. I experience that CSE (Custom Scale Editor, H Pi, basic version is free), where you can enter frequencies (and later, eventually, ratios) directly onto a clickable piano key, is perfect for that purpose.

I am not the primary ratio guy, I am the "trial and error / frequency guy", and I was very happy to find such an easy to use program. You don't need more than the systems midi synthesizer to hear what you enter ...

Btw., I like your sensitivity for their learning in your order of letting them approach the topic :)

Greetings,
Clemens

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "AWolf" <wolftune@...> wrote:
>
> I wish I had time to get into more details about all sorts of thoughts I haven't shared with the group in several years...
>
> But, to the immediate point:
>
> I'm teaching a class. I want to find a tool, software I mean mainly, that is free that I can recommend to students that would allow them to try a random bunch of pitches to make their own scale. The catch: I want it to be without reference to any existing system.
>
> What I'm imagining is basically a sampler, like a drum-sampler, where it is just a bunch of arbitrary pads / boxes to click. Each could trigger a pitch specified just by frequency or something.
>
> The goal is to get my students to explore and see what happens if they just try to make scales by trial-and-error. I want to have them get that experience before I start teaching them explicitly about ratios and temperament...
>
> Any possible suggestions??
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron Wolf
> wolftune.com
>

Thanks, Chris. Unfortunately, that seems to be Windows-only. I have access to Windows but mostly use a Mac and am now transitioning to GNU/Linux. I might still check it out, but I really ideally need cross-platform so that I don't need to worry about what system my students use.

I know that Wine might work for Mac or GNU/Linux, but it isn't ideal. The whole point is about how to get students going as easily as possible.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> here you go
>
> the only tracker with microtonal capabilities built in for samples and can
> you midi or pc keyboard as a trigger and is free.
>
>
> http://openmpt.org/
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, AWolf <wolftune@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > I wish I had time to get into more details about all sorts of thoughts I
> > haven't shared with the group in several years...
> >
> > But, to the immediate point:
> >
> > I'm teaching a class. I want to find a tool, software I mean mainly, that
> > is free that I can recommend to students that would allow them to try a
> > random bunch of pitches to make their own scale. The catch: I want it to be
> > without reference to any existing system.
> >
> > What I'm imagining is basically a sampler, like a drum-sampler, where it
> > is just a bunch of arbitrary pads / boxes to click. Each could trigger a
> > pitch specified just by frequency or something.
> >
> > The goal is to get my students to explore and see what happens if they
> > just try to make scales by trial-and-error. I want to have them get that
> > experience before I start teaching them explicitly about ratios and
> > temperament...
> >
> > Any possible suggestions??
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Aaron Wolf
> > wolftune.com
> >
> >
> >
>

Thanks, Clemens. I actually own an H-Pi Tonal Plexus (one of the first they made), and I have been planning all along to have my students use TPXE and/or CSE to explore at home (after I show them the real thing in class).

The trouble is, I have this ideal I'm hoping to achieve: I want to have them play around with pitch without having any reference to some existing key layout or reference to a pitch being off from tempered. I want them to just generate pitches with no reference and learn to figure out how they feel about certain relationships or options. *Then* I plan to move on to learning how it is traditionally done, with reference to JI and temperament and using the H-Pi software...

I might not get my ideal though...

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "soymilkismycoffee" <listening.inn@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dear Aaron Wolf,
>
> without my answer being referring to a sampler, it could help your approach in just letting your students explore a scale by trial and error. I experience that CSE (Custom Scale Editor, H Pi, basic version is free), where you can enter frequencies (and later, eventually, ratios) directly onto a clickable piano key, is perfect for that purpose.
>
> I am not the primary ratio guy, I am the "trial and error / frequency guy", and I was very happy to find such an easy to use program. You don't need more than the systems midi synthesizer to hear what you enter ...
>
> Btw., I like your sensitivity for their learning in your order of letting them approach the topic :)
>
> Greetings,
> Clemens
>
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "AWolf" <wolftune@> wrote:
> >
> > I wish I had time to get into more details about all sorts of thoughts I haven't shared with the group in several years...
> >
> > But, to the immediate point:
> >
> > I'm teaching a class. I want to find a tool, software I mean mainly, that is free that I can recommend to students that would allow them to try a random bunch of pitches to make their own scale. The catch: I want it to be without reference to any existing system.
> >
> > What I'm imagining is basically a sampler, like a drum-sampler, where it is just a bunch of arbitrary pads / boxes to click. Each could trigger a pitch specified just by frequency or something.
> >
> > The goal is to get my students to explore and see what happens if they just try to make scales by trial-and-error. I want to have them get that experience before I start teaching them explicitly about ratios and temperament...
> >
> > Any possible suggestions??
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Aaron Wolf
> > wolftune.com
> >
>

Ohhhh you didn't mention anything about your platform.

Yes, people run OpenMPT on Linux - but if you want help with that - or to
compile it for your Mac system go here and ask for help.
http://forum.openmpt.org/

Otherwise perhaps you should look into MAX/MSP and devise a system as you
intend...

Chris

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:24 PM, AWolf <wolftune@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thanks, Chris. Unfortunately, that seems to be Windows-only. I have access
> to Windows but mostly use a Mac and am now transitioning to GNU/Linux. I
> might still check it out, but I really ideally need cross-platform so that
> I don't need to worry about what system my students use.
>
> I know that Wine might work for Mac or GNU/Linux, but it isn't ideal. The
> whole point is about how to get students going as easily as possible.
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > here you go
> >
> > the only tracker with microtonal capabilities built in for samples and
> can
> > you midi or pc keyboard as a trigger and is free.
> >
> >
> > http://openmpt.org/
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, AWolf <wolftune@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > I wish I had time to get into more details about all sorts of thoughts
> I
> > > haven't shared with the group in several years...
> > >
> > > But, to the immediate point:
> > >
> > > I'm teaching a class. I want to find a tool, software I mean mainly,
> that
> > > is free that I can recommend to students that would allow them to try a
> > > random bunch of pitches to make their own scale. The catch: I want it
> to be
> > > without reference to any existing system.
> > >
> > > What I'm imagining is basically a sampler, like a drum-sampler, where
> it
> > > is just a bunch of arbitrary pads / boxes to click. Each could trigger
> a
> > > pitch specified just by frequency or something.
> > >
> > > The goal is to get my students to explore and see what happens if they
> > > just try to make scales by trial-and-error. I want to have them get
> that
> > > experience before I start teaching them explicitly about ratios and
> > > temperament...
> > >
> > > Any possible suggestions??
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Aaron Wolf
> > > wolftune.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

Hi,

> The goal is to get my students to explore and see what happens if they
> just try to make scales by trial-and-error. I want to have them get
> that experience before I start teaching them explicitly about ratios
> and temperament...
>

The xenharmonic wiki as well as wikipedia have lists of microtuners. Usually you can use any of them with some midi software sequencer, e.g. the one included in Windows.

If you are looking for somthing which is extensible, I'd suggest Mutabor (http://www.math.tu-dresden.de/˝mutabor/).
You can provide a fixed table of freqencies and replace them later by some algebraic expressions containing intervals.
|
Example for the start
||----------------------------------------------------
||LOGIC
experimental KEY e = exp []
TONE
|| C' = 2089
|| Cis' = 1030
|| D' = 5521
|| Es' = 456
|| E' = 320
|| F' = 290
|| Fis' = 88.9
|| G' = 552
|| Gis' = 546
|| A' = 440 "Hz"
|| Bes' = 3089
|||| B' = 770.5
||
TONESYSTEM
exp = 60 [ C', Cis', D', Es',E',F',Fis',G',Gis',A',Bes',B' ] octave
||----------------------------------------------------
|
And during the course you can change the tunging according to your needs, e.g. by adding a Pyhagorean tuning (just add the text at he End of the file:

|----------------------------------------------------
||LOGIC
Pythagoras KEY e = pythagoras []
TONE
pA' = 440 "Hz"
||INTERVAL
just_fifth = 3:2
octave = 2:1
TONE
pE' = pA' + just_fifth - octave
pB' = pE' + just_fifth
pFis' = pB' + just_fifth - octave
pCis' = pFis' + just_fifth - octave
pGis' = pCis' + just_fifth
pD' = pA' - just_fifth
pG' = pD' - just_fifth + octave
pC' = pG' - just_fifth
pF' = pC' - just_fifth + octave
pBes' = pF' - just_fifth + octave
pEs' = pBes' - just_fifth
pAs' = pEs' - just_fifth + octave
" ... "|
|----------------------------------------------------
|
For a tutorial see: http://schlemmersoft.de/en/Mutabor%20tutorial

In case of any questions (including feature requests and bugs), feel free to contact me.

Tobias

>
> Any possible suggestions??
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron Wolf
> wolftune.com
>
>