Question for the sagittal folks

Is the following a correct mixed Sagittal notation for 11-limit porcupine?

... C# D\|/# E/|\ F# G\|/# /|\A B C\|/# D/|\ E ...

If so, then that's really convenient because I can have a notation that's at the same time very simple (only adding two mirror-image symbols to standard notation), easy for my flutist to understand, and also Sagittally correct.

This should be easy to do with Lilypond too, right?

Keenan

"Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
> Is the following a correct mixed Sagittal notation for
> 11-limit porcupine?
>
> ... C# D\|/# E/|\ F# G\|/# /|\A B C\|/# D/|\ E ...
>
> If so, then that's really convenient because I can have a
> notation that's at the same time very simple (only adding
> two mirror-image symbols to standard notation), easy for
> my flutist to understand, and also Sagittally correct.

I don't know the standard sagittal for porcupine. But
there doesn't have to be one. You can use this if it makes
sense to you. If you want to check, see if it matches the
standard notation for 22-equal.

> This should be easy to do with Lilypond too, right?

It'll be easy to use once you have it set up. To set it
up, you'll need tables of note names and alterations on
top of my sagittal support code. Lilypond comes with its
own quartertone symbols that are even easier to use.

Graham

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <gbreed@...> wrote:
>
> "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
> > Is the following a correct mixed Sagittal notation for
> > 11-limit porcupine?
> >
> > ... C# D\|/# E/|\ F# G\|/# /|\A B C\|/# D/|\ E ...
> >
> > If so, then that's really convenient because I can have a
> > notation that's at the same time very simple (only adding
> > two mirror-image symbols to standard notation), easy for
> > my flutist to understand, and also Sagittally correct.
>
> I don't know the standard sagittal for porcupine. But
> there doesn't have to be one. You can use this if it makes
> sense to you. If you want to check, see if it matches the
> standard notation for 22-equal.

It does not match the standard notation for 22 (which uses /| ), nor 15 nor 29. I couldn't find 37. I was more wondering whether the notation was "correct" versus "incorrect", rather than "standard" versus "nonstandard".

Keenan

Hi Keenan. Yes, that certainly is a correct Sagittal notation for a chain of generators in 11-limit porcupine temperament. There is no standard notation for that as yet.

Although I would write it in text as
... C# D#\|/ E/|\ F# G#\|/ A/|\ B C#\|/ D/|\ E ...

Of course, on the staff the order is reversed, but the constant is that the accidental representing the greatest alteration is always nearest the nominal/notehead.

In text we can also use the short form
... C# D#v E^ F# G#v A^ B C#v D^ E ...

and, as usual, we require fewer accidentals if we go closer to centering on D
... D^ E F#v G^ A Bv C^ D Ev F^ G Av Bb^ C Dv ...

The 5-limit notation (similar to the standard 22-ET notation) is equally valid
... D/ E F#\ G/ A B\ C/ D Ev F\ G Av Bb/ C Dv ...

Herman Miller's porcupine page:
http://www.prismnet.com/~hmiller/music/temp-porcupine.html

Regards,
-- Dave Keenan

On 10/22/2011 6:53 AM, Graham Breed wrote:
> "Keenan Pepper"<keenanpepper@...> wrote:
>> Is the following a correct mixed Sagittal notation for
>> 11-limit porcupine?
>>
>> ... C# D\|/# E/|\ F# G\|/# /|\A B C\|/# D/|\ E ...
>>
>> If so, then that's really convenient because I can have a
>> notation that's at the same time very simple (only adding
>> two mirror-image symbols to standard notation), easy for
>> my flutist to understand, and also Sagittally correct.
>
> I don't know the standard sagittal for porcupine. But
> there doesn't have to be one. You can use this if it makes
> sense to you. If you want to check, see if it matches the
> standard notation for 22-equal.

I've proposed a couple of Sagittal notations for 7-limit porcupine; here's one that looks similar:

... C/||\ D||\ E/|) F/||\ G||\ A/|) B C||\ D/|) E ...

Clearly /||\ corresponds with # in mixed sagittal, so that works. In 11-limit porcupine /|) is equivalent to /|\. The one slightly different thing is ||\ vs. \!/# . Does the math work out?

||\ (+2, -14)
=
\!/ (-1, +7)
+
/||\ (+3, -21)

So yes, that is a correct mixed Sagittal notation according to the conventions that I've proposed.

Thanks all. This is great; it means I can use Sagittal notation in this simple, convenient way without having to understand the family tree of the whole Greek pantheon or whatever.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@...> wrote:
> and, as usual, we require fewer accidentals if we go closer to centering on D
> ... D^ E F#v G^ A Bv C^ D Ev F^ G Av Bb^ C Dv ...

Yes, but my actual scale is going to be centered around B or F#, because there are awkward gaps in the set of alternate flute fingerings that make it very inconvenient to play notes between F# and G, or between Bb and B.

Keenan