Introduction and my first xenharmonic piece

Hi all; I've been reading with a lot of interest for a few months. I'm
a tech writer and engineer-in-training, located in northern Alabama.
I'm finally chiming in because...

Last night I realized that because my old acoustic-electric guitar has
a floating bridge, a few non-12 EDOs lay within my grasp! Up until now
my exploration had mostly been in Scala and Csound (and lots of
reading), and mostly in just intonation. I tried for 10edo, which
seemed to work all right, so I bashed out my first* little piece of
xenharmonics: Cataract for 10-EDO Guitar and Voice. Hope you like
it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20YIQ_WhDYk

Constructive feedback is most welcome; just know I am pretty much a
total beginner at this. Apologies in advance for the poor vocal
intonation and the general stumbling around on the fretboard -- I'm
mostly a flute player nowadays. And wow, singing in 10edo was not
easy! Hopefully the intentions are clear enough.

The guitar is tuned with 360 cents between each pair of strings,
giving fretboard isomorphism and some semblance of the standard guitar
tuning. 5th string is tuned to around C3.

Jason Conklin

*Okay, strictly speaking I've done some mildly xenharmonic stuff
before -- a couple of JI computer pieces -- but they were conceived
before I knew much about xenharmony as such, so they don't count.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all; I've been reading with a lot of interest for a few months. I'm
> a tech writer and engineer-in-training, located in northern Alabama.
> I'm finally chiming in because...
>
> Last night I realized that because my old acoustic-electric guitar has
> a floating bridge, a few non-12 EDOs lay within my grasp! Up until now
> my exploration had mostly been in Scala and Csound (and lots of
> reading), and mostly in just intonation. I tried for 10edo, which
> seemed to work all right, so I bashed out my first* little piece of
> xenharmonics: Cataract for 10-EDO Guitar and Voice. Hope you like
> it...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20YIQ_WhDYk
>
> Constructive feedback is most welcome; just know I am pretty much a
> total beginner at this. Apologies in advance for the poor vocal
> intonation and the general stumbling around on the fretboard -- I'm
> mostly a flute player nowadays. And wow, singing in 10edo was not
> easy! Hopefully the intentions are clear enough.
>
> The guitar is tuned with 360 cents between each pair of strings,
> giving fretboard isomorphism and some semblance of the standard guitar
> tuning. 5th string is tuned to around C3.
>
> Jason Conklin

Welcome to the community Jason! Surprisingly a lot of members on this list have degrees in engineering or are pursuing one. We only have one rule here which is don't mention the word "Pi," or Mike will ban you.

Your song is very interesting, it shows a tonal side of 10-equal which is rarely experienced. Some people see 10-equal and laugh at the theory behind it, but hearing a composition is a much different story.

Flute and guitar are both great instruments for experimenting in the xenharmonic realm. I myself play flute, which is great for pitch bends (it sounds especially good when playing subminor thirds and mavila-esque melodies). Guitar is a little harder as it requires a different fretboard, or a floating bridge in your case.

Hope to hear some more musical works from you!

Ryan

Thanks, Ryan, I appreciate the welcome.

I had picked up that 10edo was not generally seen as the most "fecund"
environment (and I can sorta see/hear why, esp. having heard some of what
people are doing in other, higher divisions) -- I pretty much fell there
because A) I like a challenge, and B) that's about as far as I can push my
floating bridge nut-ward, and I was testing capabilities. Also I was also
curious to hear 5edo under my fingers.

Anyway, thanks. And please (anyone else) don't be afraid to bash the song or
the tuning or whatever... just do it constructively!

Also, if anyone can recommend guitar tunings for 11edo, I'll be playing
around with that next. Thanks,

Jason

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 14:03, Ryan Avella <domeofatonement@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all; I've been reading with a lot of interest for a few months. I'm
> > a tech writer and engineer-in-training, located in northern Alabama.
> > I'm finally chiming in because...
> >
> > Last night I realized that because my old acoustic-electric guitar has
> > a floating bridge, a few non-12 EDOs lay within my grasp! Up until now
> > my exploration had mostly been in Scala and Csound (and lots of
> > reading), and mostly in just intonation. I tried for 10edo, which
> > seemed to work all right, so I bashed out my first* little piece of
> > xenharmonics: Cataract for 10-EDO Guitar and Voice. Hope you like
> > it...
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20YIQ_WhDYk
> >
> > Constructive feedback is most welcome; just know I am pretty much a
> > total beginner at this. Apologies in advance for the poor vocal
> > intonation and the general stumbling around on the fretboard -- I'm
> > mostly a flute player nowadays. And wow, singing in 10edo was not
> > easy! Hopefully the intentions are clear enough.
> >
> > The guitar is tuned with 360 cents between each pair of strings,
> > giving fretboard isomorphism and some semblance of the standard guitar
> > tuning. 5th string is tuned to around C3.
> >
> > Jason Conklin
>
> Welcome to the community Jason! Surprisingly a lot of members on this list
> have degrees in engineering or are pursuing one. We only have one rule here
> which is don't mention the word "Pi," or Mike will ban you.
>
> Your song is very interesting, it shows a tonal side of 10-equal which is
> rarely experienced. Some people see 10-equal and laugh at the theory behind
> it, but hearing a composition is a much different story.
>
> Flute and guitar are both great instruments for experimenting in the
> xenharmonic realm. I myself play flute, which is great for pitch bends (it
> sounds especially good when playing subminor thirds and mavila-esque
> melodies). Guitar is a little harder as it requires a different fretboard,
> or a floating bridge in your case.
>
> Hope to hear some more musical works from you!
>
> Ryan
>
>
>

welcome!! and this is a very nice composition!! Not many people sing with
their microtonal compositions so that was especially nice.

I'm curious about the (approximate) distance you moved your bridge. One can
buy floating bridges at amazon fairly cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-German-Adjusting-Archtop-Guitar/dp/B002NBH5G6/ref=sr_1_41?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1313770050&sr=1-41

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thanks, Ryan, I appreciate the welcome.
>
> I had picked up that 10edo was not generally seen as the most "fecund"
> environment (and I can sorta see/hear why, esp. having heard some of what
> people are doing in other, higher divisions) -- I pretty much fell there
> because A) I like a challenge, and B) that's about as far as I can push my
> floating bridge nut-ward, and I was testing capabilities. Also I was also
> curious to hear 5edo under my fingers.
>
> Anyway, thanks. And please (anyone else) don't be afraid to bash the song
> or the tuning or whatever... just do it constructively!
>
> Also, if anyone can recommend guitar tunings for 11edo, I'll be playing
> around with that next. Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 14:03, Ryan Avella <domeofatonement@...>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all; I've been reading with a lot of interest for a few months. I'm
>> > a tech writer and engineer-in-training, located in northern Alabama.
>> > I'm finally chiming in because...
>> >
>> > Last night I realized that because my old acoustic-electric guitar has
>> > a floating bridge, a few non-12 EDOs lay within my grasp! Up until now
>> > my exploration had mostly been in Scala and Csound (and lots of
>> > reading), and mostly in just intonation. I tried for 10edo, which
>> > seemed to work all right, so I bashed out my first* little piece of
>> > xenharmonics: Cataract for 10-EDO Guitar and Voice. Hope you like
>> > it...
>> >
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20YIQ_WhDYk
>> >
>> > Constructive feedback is most welcome; just know I am pretty much a
>> > total beginner at this. Apologies in advance for the poor vocal
>> > intonation and the general stumbling around on the fretboard -- I'm
>> > mostly a flute player nowadays. And wow, singing in 10edo was not
>> > easy! Hopefully the intentions are clear enough.
>> >
>> > The guitar is tuned with 360 cents between each pair of strings,
>> > giving fretboard isomorphism and some semblance of the standard guitar
>> > tuning. 5th string is tuned to around C3.
>> >
>> > Jason Conklin
>>
>> Welcome to the community Jason! Surprisingly a lot of members on this list
>> have degrees in engineering or are pursuing one. We only have one rule here
>> which is don't mention the word "Pi," or Mike will ban you.
>>
>> Your song is very interesting, it shows a tonal side of 10-equal which is
>> rarely experienced. Some people see 10-equal and laugh at the theory behind
>> it, but hearing a composition is a much different story.
>>
>> Flute and guitar are both great instruments for experimenting in the
>> xenharmonic realm. I myself play flute, which is great for pitch bends (it
>> sounds especially good when playing subminor thirds and mavila-esque
>> melodies). Guitar is a little harder as it requires a different fretboard,
>> or a floating bridge in your case.
>>
>> Hope to hear some more musical works from you!
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>
>

Thanks so much. The singing was quite a challenge when I made the video --
between the unfamiliar intervals and the fact that I was still teaching
myself the guitar part -- but I'm getting a little more used to it now.

It looks like I moved the bridge about 3.5 inches, but my ruler isn't handy
at the moment. It's twice the distance between the 10th and 12th fret
locations, to be sure! In practice, I just adjusted the bridge until the
pitch of the 10th-fret harmonic matched that of the 10th-fretted note. It
wreaks havoc on the tone of the instrument, particularly the attack, but
it's very interesting to mess with (and this guitar has always had an
"interesting" acoustic sound).

I hope to (very informally) perform the song this weekend, along with a
couple of computer/flute things I've been doing, and then I'll try something
else on the guitar for a while. Maybe I'll tune it to Pi... JUST KIDDING
don't ban me Mike.

Jason

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:08, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> welcome!! and this is a very nice composition!! Not many people sing with
> their microtonal compositions so that was especially nice.
>
> I'm curious about the (approximate) distance you moved your bridge. One can
> buy floating bridges at amazon fairly cheap.
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-German-Adjusting-Archtop-Guitar/dp/B002NBH5G6/ref=sr_1_41?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1313770050&sr=1-41
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Ryan, I appreciate the welcome.
>>
>> I had picked up that 10edo was not generally seen as the most "fecund"
>> environment (and I can sorta see/hear why, esp. having heard some of what
>> people are doing in other, higher divisions) -- I pretty much fell there
>> because A) I like a challenge, and B) that's about as far as I can push my
>> floating bridge nut-ward, and I was testing capabilities. Also I was also
>> curious to hear 5edo under my fingers.
>>
>> Anyway, thanks. And please (anyone else) don't be afraid to bash the song
>> or the tuning or whatever... just do it constructively!
>>
>> Also, if anyone can recommend guitar tunings for 11edo, I'll be playing
>> around with that next. Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 14:03, Ryan Avella <domeofatonement@...>wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi all; I've been reading with a lot of interest for a few months. I'm
>>> > a tech writer and engineer-in-training, located in northern Alabama.
>>> > I'm finally chiming in because...
>>> >
>>> > Last night I realized that because my old acoustic-electric guitar has
>>> > a floating bridge, a few non-12 EDOs lay within my grasp! Up until now
>>> > my exploration had mostly been in Scala and Csound (and lots of
>>> > reading), and mostly in just intonation. I tried for 10edo, which
>>> > seemed to work all right, so I bashed out my first* little piece of
>>> > xenharmonics: Cataract for 10-EDO Guitar and Voice. Hope you like
>>> > it...
>>> >
>>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20YIQ_WhDYk
>>> >
>>> > Constructive feedback is most welcome; just know I am pretty much a
>>> > total beginner at this. Apologies in advance for the poor vocal
>>> > intonation and the general stumbling around on the fretboard -- I'm
>>> > mostly a flute player nowadays. And wow, singing in 10edo was not
>>> > easy! Hopefully the intentions are clear enough.
>>> >
>>> > The guitar is tuned with 360 cents between each pair of strings,
>>> > giving fretboard isomorphism and some semblance of the standard guitar
>>> > tuning. 5th string is tuned to around C3.
>>> >
>>> > Jason Conklin
>>>
>>> Welcome to the community Jason! Surprisingly a lot of members on this
>>> list have degrees in engineering or are pursuing one. We only have one rule
>>> here which is don't mention the word "Pi," or Mike will ban you.
>>>
>>> Your song is very interesting, it shows a tonal side of 10-equal which is
>>> rarely experienced. Some people see 10-equal and laugh at the theory behind
>>> it, but hearing a composition is a much different story.
>>>
>>> Flute and guitar are both great instruments for experimenting in the
>>> xenharmonic realm. I myself play flute, which is great for pitch bends (it
>>> sounds especially good when playing subminor thirds and mavila-esque
>>> melodies). Guitar is a little harder as it requires a different fretboard,
>>> or a floating bridge in your case.
>>>
>>> Hope to hear some more musical works from you!
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...> wrote:
>
> I hope to (very informally) perform the song this weekend, along with a couple of computer/flute things I've been doing, and then I'll try something else on the guitar for a while. Maybe I'll tune it to Pi... JUST KIDDING don't ban me Mike.

Banned.

Just kidding. This was a really interesting piece - I find 10-equal
sometimes difficult to work with, mostly because it tempers out 25/24,
but you seemed to get some neat sounds of it. Although it should be
known that moving a bridge up so that the 10th fret becomes the octave
isn't actually 10-equal - if you work the math out, the frets don't
line up the same way. But hey, close enough to mess around.

-Mike

Thanks for the confirmation; I had a nagging sense that might be the case
(not ~quite~ 10edo) even when I was first tuning the guitar, but yeah, it's
certainly close enough for my purposes, and lots of fun to mess with. The
people I'm playing for tomorrow certainly won't know the difference!

Jason

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 22:13, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I hope to (very informally) perform the song this weekend, along with a
> couple of computer/flute things I've been doing, and then I'll try something
> else on the guitar for a while. Maybe I'll tune it to Pi... JUST KIDDING
> don't ban me Mike.
>
> Banned.
>
> Just kidding. This was a really interesting piece - I find 10-equal
> sometimes difficult to work with, mostly because it tempers out 25/24,
> but you seemed to get some neat sounds of it. Although it should be
> known that moving a bridge up so that the 10th fret becomes the octave
> isn't actually 10-equal - if you work the math out, the frets don't
> line up the same way. But hey, close enough to mess around.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>

Thanks for posting that first piece. I enjoyed it. Welcome!

I look forward to hearing what you do with 11 edo. Several fine pieces are already extant in that temperament but there's potential for infinitely many more. Some info:

http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/11edo

This page on 11 edo modes may suggest some guitar string tunings:

http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/11edo+Modes

Are you looking for something isomorphic, with each pair of adjacent strings the same pitch distance apart? 'Cause not every mode would lend itself to that.

Cheers!
==
MLV aka Manu Phonic

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Ryan, I appreciate the welcome.
>
> I had picked up that 10edo was not generally seen as the most "fecund"
> environment (and I can sorta see/hear why, esp. having heard some of what
> people are doing in other, higher divisions) -- I pretty much fell there
> because A) I like a challenge, and B) that's about as far as I can push my
> floating bridge nut-ward, and I was testing capabilities. Also I was also
> curious to hear 5edo under my fingers.
>
> Anyway, thanks. And please (anyone else) don't be afraid to bash the song or
> the tuning or whatever... just do it constructively!
>
> Also, if anyone can recommend guitar tunings for 11edo, I'll be playing
> around with that next. Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 14:03, Ryan Avella <domeofatonement@...>wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jason Conklin <jason.conklin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all; I've been reading with a lot of interest for a few months. I'm
> > > a tech writer and engineer-in-training, located in northern Alabama.
> > > I'm finally chiming in because...
> > >
> > > Last night I realized that because my old acoustic-electric guitar has
> > > a floating bridge, a few non-12 EDOs lay within my grasp! Up until now
> > > my exploration had mostly been in Scala and Csound (and lots of
> > > reading), and mostly in just intonation. I tried for 10edo, which
> > > seemed to work all right, so I bashed out my first* little piece of
> > > xenharmonics: Cataract for 10-EDO Guitar and Voice. Hope you like
> > > it...
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20YIQ_WhDYk
> > >
> > > Constructive feedback is most welcome; just know I am pretty much a
> > > total beginner at this. Apologies in advance for the poor vocal
> > > intonation and the general stumbling around on the fretboard -- I'm
> > > mostly a flute player nowadays. And wow, singing in 10edo was not
> > > easy! Hopefully the intentions are clear enough.
> > >
> > > The guitar is tuned with 360 cents between each pair of strings,
> > > giving fretboard isomorphism and some semblance of the standard guitar
> > > tuning. 5th string is tuned to around C3.
> > >
> > > Jason Conklin
> >
> > Welcome to the community Jason! Surprisingly a lot of members on this list
> > have degrees in engineering or are pursuing one. We only have one rule here
> > which is don't mention the word "Pi," or Mike will ban you.
> >
> > Your song is very interesting, it shows a tonal side of 10-equal which is
> > rarely experienced. Some people see 10-equal and laugh at the theory behind
> > it, but hearing a composition is a much different story.
> >
> > Flute and guitar are both great instruments for experimenting in the
> > xenharmonic realm. I myself play flute, which is great for pitch bends (it
> > sounds especially good when playing subminor thirds and mavila-esque
> > melodies). Guitar is a little harder as it requires a different fretboard,
> > or a floating bridge in your case.
> >
> > Hope to hear some more musical works from you!
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> >
> >
>