Re: [tuning] A Broad Question

I assume you have a computer. A good way to begin is to find out first what
you can do with your sound card, at least before deciding to invest more in
an expensive keyboard. If you have a windows machine and any standard midi
keyboard, Graham Breed's "Midi Relay" www.cix.co.uk/~gbreed/software.htm
might be a handy way to get started. Manuel op de Coul's "Scala"
http://www.tiac.net/users/xen/scala/ provides a wealth of tools for working
with scales both analytically and for generating tuning commands, i.e. for
Midi Relay. If you have a fast machine and enough memory, "Mellosoftron"
www.polyhedric.com allows you to map any sample to any key in real time,
while another polyhedric product, WAVmaker, allows one to specify very exact
frequencies for each pitch while rendering a midi file into a WAV file. If
you use notation, Finale 2000 has an improved pitch bend facility, although
with pitch bend one has to be careful to keep midi channels distinct and
pitch resolution for midi pitch bend will vary highly from card to card (WAV
files, on the other hand, will not be so restricted by the sound card). I'm
not familar enough with Sibelius, which has had some good reviews, but the
shareware "Lime" notation program has adequate pitch bend implementation.
Finally, if you don't need any real time playing, and you like to program,
then CSound may be a way to go.

If you have a Mac or Linux machine, please let the list know -- I'm sure
someone else will be able to help you out.

From: Keenan Pepper <mtpepper@prodigy.net>
Subject: [tuning] A Broad Question:

> My parents are ready to buy me a microtunable synthesizer/keyboard of my
> choice. Which one is best?
>
> Assume I know nothing about electronics, but everything I need to on
tuning.
>
> Please help,
> Keenan P.

Keenan,

> My parents are ready to buy me a microtunable synthesizer/keyboard of my
> choice. Which one is best?

Well that would depend on what kind of tuning system you are after. Carl
Lumma suggested a few synths that only use 12 tone based tunings. If you
want the ability to have more than 12 tones per octave, then you need a
synth with one or more "full keyboard" tuning tables. I personally need a
synth that allows you to retune any midi note number to any frequency,
limited of course by the tuning resolution of the instrument.

I am very happy with my Yamaha TG77 module. The cost was about $450 used on
ebay. It has 64 preset tuning tables with a variety of just, meantone, and
ET tunings and it has two user definable tuning tables. The resolution if
1.17 cents or 1024 steps per octave/85 steps per semitone. Depending on
your music, this resolution may or may not be adequate, as it can produce
noticable beating between intended JI intervals. 1.17 cents is about the
best resolution available on hardware synths. The TG77 is also available in
a keyboard - SY77, and has a later version in the SY99. It is a great
sounding 6 operator FM synth. It also has sample playback for real
instrument sounds and allows you to modulate the FM operators with the
samples. I have encounter some problems with retuning the higher note
numbers of some sounds that use both sample waves and FM operators -- they
have progressively lower amplituned the higher the note number.

It is difficult to program, and requires a PC based editor. I purchased
Sound Quest ($100) which is turning out to be a great synth
editor/librarian. If you are not into programming a synth, then there are
tons of patches available. I have over 2000 unique patches. This series of
synths is very commonly available on ebay.

I also researched the Ensoniq MR module ($500 used on ebay) Also available
in keyboard form. It is strictly a sample playback synth. I believe its
nicest feature for the microtonalist would be the .39 cent tuning
resolution, although it _may_ have some problems remapping the samples when
they are retuned to far, causeing a "chipmunkish" effect.

I would strongly recommend that you do allot of research prior to a
purchase. I would suggest the synth user reviews on www.harmony-central.com
as a starting point. What I did was I checked out the microtonal synthesis
page at http://home.att.net/~microtonal/ , complied a list of all the synths
that met my criteria (2 tuning tables, 1.17 cent resolution, full keyboard
retuning). Then I read the reviews on harmony central and did searches on
ebay to check on price and availability.

Also try the following post from Brian Mclaren on John Starrett's site:
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/post164.html , which is an excellent
summary of available microtonal synths, although somewhat outdated.

Darren Burgess
SEJIS
Gainesville, FL

>
> Assume I know nothing about electronics, but everything I need to on
tuning.
>
> Please help,
> Keenan P.

In "Microtonal Synthesis," some synthesizers that are listed as having full
keyboard retuning have a "Tuning range per note" of less than a semitone.
What does this mean? Could there be sythesizers so stupid that every key can
be tuned, but not more than 63 cents from 12eq?! This would only be useful
for the rather dubious practive of "strecthing octaves". How can these claim
to be microtunable?!!

I knew there were prejudices against JI but I never realized to what extent!

Stay Tuned,
Keenan P.

>In "Microtonal Synthesis," some synthesizers that are listed as having full
>keyboard retuning have a "Tuning range per note" of less than a semitone.
>What does this mean? Could there be sythesizers so stupid that every key
can
>be tuned, but not more than 63 cents from 12eq?! This would only be useful
>for the rather dubious practive of "strecthing octaves".

I disagree. Any conceivable pitch is at most 50 cents from 12-tET. Of
course, if you want more than 12 notes per octave, you'll need something
like Ensoniq's kind of full keyboard retuning. But this feature would be
good enough for historical tunings such as Pythagorean and meantone.

>How can these claim
>to be microtunable?!!

>I knew there were prejudices against JI but I never realized to what
extent!

I don't see what this has to do with JI (I'd see it as more of a prejudice
against non-12 systems). Many JI systems have 12 tones, all within a comma
or so of 12-tET. The >1 cent resolution of most synths is much more of a fly
in the JI-ist's ointment.

They certainly are microtunable, but extremely limited. I would suggest
only full range retunable synths as per
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/post164.html

Darren

> In "Microtonal Synthesis," some synthesizers that are listed as having
full
> keyboard retuning have a "Tuning range per note" of less than a semitone.
> What does this mean? Could there be sythesizers so stupid that every key
can
> be tuned, but not more than 63 cents from 12eq?! This would only be useful
> for the rather dubious practive of "strecthing octaves". How can these
claim
> to be microtunable?!!
>

Keenan,

You also need to take a look at your needs regarding the sounds you want to
reproduce irrespective of the tunability of the synth. The following online
SY manual has a good introduction to the various synthesis techniques:
http://www.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/ini/PEOPLE/heja/sy-prog/sy-pro
g.html

Do you want realistic acoutic instrument sounds? (wave table synths or
virtual modeling)
Or do you want entirely new instruments and sounds? (FM, analog, etc)
Or both?

The kind of music you are striving for would certainly influence this
aspect.

Darren Burgess
SEJIS
Gainesville FL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keenan Pepper" <mtpepper@prodigy.net>
To: <tuning@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] A Broad Question

> In "Microtonal Synthesis," some synthesizers that are listed as having
full
> keyboard retuning have a "Tuning range per note" of less than a semitone.
> What does this mean? Could there be sythesizers so stupid that every key
can
> be tuned, but not more than 63 cents from 12eq?! This would only be useful
> for the rather dubious practive of "strecthing octaves". How can these
claim
> to be microtunable?!!
>
> I knew there were prejudices against JI but I never realized to what
extent!
>
> Stay Tuned,
> Keenan P.
>
>
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>

> I am very happy with my Yamaha TG77 module.

This one seems right for me, too.

> The resolution if
> 1.17 cents or 1024 steps per octave/85 steps per semitone. Depending on
> your music, this resolution may or may not be adequate, as it can produce
> noticable beating between intended JI intervals.

It's a heck of a lot better than 12eq (which is what I've been using)!

> This series of
> synths is very commonly available on ebay.

If only I had paid attention to that! First I went to my local superstore,
which only had four models, all toys whose idea of tuning was "+" or "-" at
best (hah!). But then I searched on eBay and found a SY77 for $486 including
shipping, and it was mine in the 5 minutes it took to register and bid. I'd
better stop before I sound to much like a commercial!

Stay Tuned,
Keenan P.

Keenan,

You got an excellent deal for the SY77. It appears to not come with the
manual, and you WILL NEED IT. You can very likely get it at the yamaha
site. Make sure you also get the Midi Data Format Manual. When you get it
please contact me
as Manuel fixed a few bugs in Scala that prevented retuning of my TG77. I
can send you the interim build.

There are thousands of patches on the net. Do a search. Here is few
resourses. If you use internet explorer I can send you my entire folder of
about 30 links.

software, patches, etc
http://www.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/ini/PEOPLE/heja/sy-list.html

excellent software editor:
https://vp3.netgate.net/~squest/Windows/SoloQuest.html
If you purchase this one ($100) I can send you my entire library of 2500
unique patches.

wind programming
http://www.cris.com/~clayko/tg77.htm

> If only I had paid attention to that! First I went to my local superstore,
> which only had four models, all toys whose idea of tuning was "+" or "-"

This means global retuning- shifting the entire note range up or down to
match other instruments in an ensemble.

Darren Burgess
Gainesville FL

Keenan,

I noticed a few SY99's on ebay as well. If the 'rents are paying, why not
go for the more recent synth? You could probably snag one for under $800.

Check www.harmony-central.com for the improvements that are found in the 99
series.

Darren