Heptadecaphilia

I have put together a retrospective album of 17 note per octave pieces including one that was no longer available online called "Mars News at 17ET".

Details, online play, PDF that has background on the music, images, and links to videos are to be found here:

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=1007

duuuuuude, that was awesome!!!!!!!!!     Mike Battaglia needs to hear that!
 
tim

--- On Tue, 7/5/11, christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

From: christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...>
Subject: [tuning] Heptadecaphilia
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2011, 2:39 AM

I have put together a retrospective album of 17 note per octave pieces including one that was no longer available online called "Mars News at 17ET".

Details, online play, PDF  that has background on the music, images, and links to videos are to be found here:

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=1007

------------------------------------

You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
  tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
  tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
  tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
  tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
  tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
  tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I have put together a retrospective album of 17 note per octave pieces

Hooray! More retrospective albums please!

How's this for an idea: one piece in each tuning you've used more than once?

-Carl

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:39 PM, christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I have put together a retrospective album of 17 note per octave pieces including one that was no longer available online called "Mars News at 17ET".
>
> Details, online play, PDF that has background on the music, images, and links to videos are to be found here:
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=1007

Nice! This music + caffeine rush = life changing right now. CT Scan is
awesome, I missed a few of these!

-Mike

Mike
 I totally agree...there really is a future for new microtonal music with work like this, glad you enjoyed it as much as me.
Tim

--- On Tue, 7/5/11, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

From: Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>
Subject: Re: [tuning] Heptadecaphilia
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2011, 6:12 PM

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 10:39 PM, christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I have put together a retrospective album of 17 note per octave pieces including one that was no longer available online called "Mars News at 17ET".
>
> Details, online play, PDF that has background on the music, images, and links to videos are to be found here:
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=1007

Nice! This music + caffeine rush = life changing right now. CT Scan is
awesome, I missed a few of these!

-Mike

------------------------------------

You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
  tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
  tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
  tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
  tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
  tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
  tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
Yahoo! Groups Links

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Tim Reeves <reevest360@...> wrote:
>
> Mike
>  I totally agree...there really is a future for new microtonal music with work like this, glad you enjoyed it as much as me.
> Tim

There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."

Chris, btw, "Parking Lot Thought" is awesome! The 424 cent major
thirds sound great.

-Mike

Hello Tim, Mike, and Carl.

I really appreciate the positive comments. And I think Mike's statement
"There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."" is totally
on target. Some music sites are so microtonal-phobic (surprisingly the
Garritan 'listening room' being one) that mentioning an alternate tuning is
a sure fire way to ask to be ignored. Some music sites (www.alonetone.com)
seem to place much greater value on the actual result and I can explain what
I'm doing there (of course only in an attempt to ensnare others and turn
them to the micro-side).

Chris

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Tim Reeves <reevest360@...> wrote:
> >
> > Mike
> > I totally agree...there really is a future for new microtonal music with
> work like this, glad you enjoyed it as much as me.
> > Tim
>
> There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
> calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."
>
> Chris, btw, "Parking Lot Thought" is awesome! The 424 cent major
> thirds sound great.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>

Hi Carl,

I don't understand the advantage of "How's this for an idea: one piece in
each tuning you've used more than once? -Carl"

I was wondering if you could elaborate.

Chris

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have put together a retrospective album of 17 note per octave pieces
>
> Hooray! More retrospective albums please!
>
> How's this for an idea: one piece in each tuning you've used more than
> once?
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
>

Chris,
you are very cool. I have to agree on calling it just music...I think 12 tet is an alternative scale to natural tuning in the first place     hehe. what a concept,  right?
tim
--- On Wed, 7/6/11, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tuning] Heptadecaphilia
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 6, 2011, 1:49 AM

Hello Tim,  Mike, and Carl.

I really appreciate the positive comments. And I think Mike's statement "There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."" is totally on target. Some music sites are so microtonal-phobic (surprisingly the Garritan 'listening room' being one) that mentioning an alternate tuning is a sure fire way to ask to be ignored. Some music sites (www.alonetone.com) seem to place much greater value on the actual result and I can explain what I'm doing there (of course only in an attempt to ensnare others and turn them to the micro-side).

Chris

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Tim Reeves <reevest360@...> wrote:
>
> Mike
>  I totally agree...there really is a future for new microtonal music with work like this, glad you enjoyed it as much as me.
> Tim

There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."

Chris, btw, "Parking Lot Thought" is awesome! The 424 cent major
thirds sound great.

-Mike

I agree. All music is microtonal from a cross cultural perspective.

Johnny

Chris,
you are very cool. I have to agree on calling it just music...I think 12
tet is an alternative scale to natural tuning in the first place hehe. what
a concept, right?
tim
--- On Wed, 7/6/11, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

Or perhaps better yet - all tunings systems have the same validity - just
like all timbres, tempos, meters, instruments, etc. are valid.

Chris

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:17 AM, <Afmmjr@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> **
> I agree. All music is microtonal from a cross cultural perspective.
>
> Johnny
>
>
>
> Chris,
> you are very cool. I have to agree on calling it just music...I think 12
> tet is an alternative scale to natural tuning in the first place hehe. what
> a concept, right?
> tim
> --- On *Wed, 7/6/11, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>* wrote:
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Tim Reeves <reevest360@...> wrote:
> >
> > Mike
> >  I totally agree...there really is a future for new microtonal music with work like this, glad you enjoyed it as much as me.
> > Tim
>
> There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
> calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."
>
> Chris, btw, "Parking Lot Thought" is awesome! The 424 cent major
> thirds sound great.
>
> -Mike
>

Holy kaw! Pardon my intrusion, but this sentence about microtonality and music is exactly what I'm telling everyone around for decades!

I'm absolutely fed up with all those pseudo-scientific names(meant to impress girlfriends?)like "infra-chromatism"...

Thanks a lot for putting the word music first, and leaving microtonality behind!

You just made my day!

-Rowdy JB

Chris- It would make the retrospection more selective. -Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Carl,
>
> I don't understand the advantage of "How's this for an idea: one
> piece in each tuning you've used more than once? -Carl"
>
> I was wondering if you could elaborate.
>
> Chris

sure, I agree it would make it more selective.
On the other hand it seems an odd request of someone who has made it a point
of visiting a larger number tunings, most of them just once.

Chris

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Chris- It would make the retrospection more selective. -Carl
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Carl,
> >
> > I don't understand the advantage of "How's this for an idea: one
> > piece in each tuning you've used more than once? -Carl"
> >
> > I was wondering if you could elaborate.
> >
> > Chris
>
>
>

Obviously you've done 17 quite a bit, though maybe that's
an exception. One variant is, instead of insisting on the
exact same tuning, consider all tunings with the same number
of notes/octave. So one piece with 11 tones/oct, one with 12,
etc. It's just an easy way to get something in the
'Blackwood microtonal etudes vein' (or Well-tempered Clavier
vein if you like). -C.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> sure, I agree it would make it more selective.
> On the other hand it seems an odd request of someone who has
> made it a point of visiting a larger number tunings, most of
> them just once.
>
> Chris
>

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Obviously you've done 17 quite a bit, though maybe that's
> an exception. One variant is, instead of insisting on the
> exact same tuning, consider all tunings with the same number
> of notes/octave. So one piece with 11 tones/oct, one with 12,
> etc. It's just an easy way to get something in the
> 'Blackwood microtonal etudes vein' (or Well-tempered Clavier
> vein if you like). -C.

Yeah, second this. This would be a sweet idea.

-Mike

But I like the idea of a variety of pieces in one tuning, as Chris did here.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
> >
> > Obviously you've done 17 quite a bit, though maybe that's
> > an exception. One variant is, instead of insisting on the
> > exact same tuning, consider all tunings with the same number
> > of notes/octave. So one piece with 11 tones/oct, one with 12,
> > etc. It's just an easy way to get something in the
> > 'Blackwood microtonal etudes vein' (or Well-tempered Clavier
> > vein if you like). -C.
>
> Yeah, second this. This would be a sweet idea.
>
> -Mike
>

Me too. No reason not to have both. -Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "lobawad" <lobawad@...> wrote:
>
> But I like the idea of a variety of pieces in one tuning,
> as Chris did here.
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Obviously you've done 17 quite a bit, though maybe that's
> > > an exception. One variant is, instead of insisting on the
> > > exact same tuning, consider all tunings with the same number
> > > of notes/octave. So one piece with 11 tones/oct, one with 12,
> > > etc. It's just an easy way to get something in the
> > > 'Blackwood microtonal etudes vein' (or Well-tempered Clavier
> > > vein if you like). -C.
> >
> > Yeah, second this. This would be a sweet idea.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
>

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:14 PM, lobawad <lobawad@...> wrote:
>
> But I like the idea of a variety of pieces in one tuning, as Chris did here.

We can have more than one compilation, I think. At least I hope.

-Mike

The only "official" album plans I have at the moment is an album of solo guitar pieces, (that includes solo gr-20 guitar synth) preferably to be released with tablature to enable others to perform the pieces. I recently realized that guitar tablature is an ideal microtonal notation. Guitar tablature is straight forward and avoids all issues of notating accidentals and works with any tuning system.

Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: "Carl Lumma" <carl@lumma.org>
Sender: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 22:45:37
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Re: Heptadecaphilia

Me too. No reason not to have both. -Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "lobawad" <lobawad@...> wrote:
>
> But I like the idea of a variety of pieces in one tuning,
> as Chris did here.
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Obviously you've done 17 quite a bit, though maybe that's
> > > an exception. One variant is, instead of insisting on the
> > > exact same tuning, consider all tunings with the same number
> > > of notes/octave. So one piece with 11 tones/oct, one with 12,
> > > etc. It's just an easy way to get something in the
> > > 'Blackwood microtonal etudes vein' (or Well-tempered Clavier
> > > vein if you like). -C.
> >
> > Yeah, second this. This would be a sweet idea.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> The only "official" album plans I have at the moment is an album of solo guitar pieces, (that includes solo gr-20 guitar synth) preferably to be released with tablature to enable others to perform the pieces. I recently realized that guitar tablature is an ideal microtonal notation. Guitar tablature is straight forward and avoids all issues of notating accidentals and works with any tuning system.
>
>
> Chris

Actually, trombone slide position and lip tension would be
even better! This would avoid the confusion that usage of scordatura
(although making things more playable and the tablature compact) would
have in a non-guitarists understanding.

As an aside, I'm transcribing a Bartok string quartet to pan-pipes and am having trouble with "col legno".

Having attempted a few computer music programs, I started getting really irritated with the traditional notations grotesque mashup of "how to do something" and "the composer would like you to attempt a sound like this". Tablature falls very purely into "how to do something". Great for an awful lot of musicians, but not really a
music notation.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
> calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."
>

Nonsense. There's definitely a future for microtonal music, no matter what we call it.
--
Hans Straub

Hello Bob,

Your statement confuses me - it seems contradictory - can you expand?

" Tablature falls very purely into "how to do something". Great for an awful
lot of musicians, but not really a
music notation."

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:59 AM, bobvalentine1 <bob.valentine@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > The only "official" album plans I have at the moment is an album of solo
> guitar pieces, (that includes solo gr-20 guitar synth) preferably to be
> released with tablature to enable others to perform the pieces. I recently
> realized that guitar tablature is an ideal microtonal notation. Guitar
> tablature is straight forward and avoids all issues of notating accidentals
> and works with any tuning system.
> >
> >
> > Chris
>
> Actually, trombone slide position and lip tension would be
> even better! This would avoid the confusion that usage of scordatura
> (although making things more playable and the tablature compact) would
> have in a non-guitarists understanding.
>
> As an aside, I'm transcribing a Bartok string quartet to pan-pipes and am
> having trouble with "col legno".
>
> Having attempted a few computer music programs, I started getting really
> irritated with the traditional notations grotesque mashup of "how to do
> something" and "the composer would like you to attempt a sound like this".
> Tablature falls very purely into "how to do something". Great for an awful
> lot of musicians, but not really a
> music notation.
>
>
>

Michael said:
>> There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we
>> stop calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it
>> "music."

Hans replied:
> Nonsense. There's definitely a future for microtonal music, no
> matter what we call it.

I tend to agree with Michael, if we're talking about expanding the
scope of microtonal music beyond a small community of aficionados.
When I post "microtonal music I like" only music nerds (at best) pay
attention. When I post "a new bit I like from Igliashon Jones", I get
some more and often better responses -- even when the link is to the
same song.

Video game fans seem more open than some of the others to microtonal
music. Not sure if that's a real trend or just an artifact of who my
friends are.

Regards,
Jake

On 7/8/11, hstraub64 <straub@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>>
>> There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
>> calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."
>>
>
> Nonsense. There's definitely a future for microtonal music, no matter what
> we call it.
> --
> Hans Straub
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Great chance to apologize, you're actually making music and putting it
out there and offerring scores that will be relevant to lots of musicians. I came on harsh, and I'm sorry.

That said, I AM a guitarist, like most, a poor sight reader. But I never latched on to tab. I can figure out a fingerring, (or a voicing), and I''m a jazzer, I'll probably change them to suit me. But I need the information of the tune and the changes to start. I also need a reference for when I forget where I am (I no longer memorize as well as I once did). Unless I "play as written", tab is no longer a useful reference.

My comment regarding scordatura is that I found in the past few weeks that tuning the guitar so that scales are 3/4 notes per string allowed
me to play in positions (boxes) the same as playing in 12tet.

Example (I have 31 edo gtr, so it all goes there):

31 edo - scale 55252552

Eb 60 62
Ax 48 50 55
F# 36 41 43
Bbb 24 29 31
Av 12 17 19
E 0 5 10

Now this may make sense to me to figure out how to play the guitar, but it won't be a terribly useful reference for a pianist, or even for a guitarist with more, thinner fingers on their left hand.

Lead sheets used to have ukelele chord fingering diagrams on them. Imagine one wih those, and missing the changes. Band leader starts counting...

So all this discussion about how many lines, cents notation etc is
very important. When I wrote a computer music program (12et), my notation was p#, p indicated a pitch and the appended number was a base 12 number (zero based of course, with 40 being middle C and 4b being the B above). It also had relative pitch indications like +p3,
-p5 to indicate go up 3 12tet semitones, go down 5 12tet semi-tones.

Point is, even though the guitar IS a calculator, (next string is +p5 and down 2 frets is -p2, +p5-p2 = +p3, yep, a "minor third"), it is no more a universal musical calculator than slide position / lip pressure.

For performance, I can see the utility of cents, but I feel that is
removing 'understanding' from the performer, as 'col legno' takes away
what you might get if you just said "wheezy staccato", and see what
ANY instrumentalist will give you.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Bob,
>
> Your statement confuses me - it seems contradictory - can you expand?
>
> " Tablature falls very purely into "how to do something". Great for an awful
> lot of musicians, but not really a
> music notation."
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:59 AM, bobvalentine1 <bob.valentine@...>wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The only "official" album plans I have at the moment is an album of solo
> > guitar pieces, (that includes solo gr-20 guitar synth) preferably to be
> > released with tablature to enable others to perform the pieces. I recently
> > realized that guitar tablature is an ideal microtonal notation. Guitar
> > tablature is straight forward and avoids all issues of notating accidentals
> > and works with any tuning system.
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris
> >
> > Actually, trombone slide position and lip tension would be
> > even better! This would avoid the confusion that usage of scordatura
> > (although making things more playable and the tablature compact) would
> > have in a non-guitarists understanding.
> >
> > As an aside, I'm transcribing a Bartok string quartet to pan-pipes and am
> > having trouble with "col legno".
> >
> > Having attempted a few computer music programs, I started getting really
> > irritated with the traditional notations grotesque mashup of "how to do
> > something" and "the composer would like you to attempt a sound like this".
> > Tablature falls very purely into "how to do something". Great for an awful
> > lot of musicians, but not really a
> > music notation.
> >
> >
> >
>

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:04 AM, hstraub64 <straub@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> >
> > There's definitely a future for "microtonal music," so long as we stop
> > calling it "microtonal" music and just start calling it "music."
> >
>
> Nonsense. There's definitely a future for microtonal music, no matter what we call it.

Sure, but I like the future where we don't trivialize it better.

-Mike

Hi Bob,

No apologies needed.

I had to read your message several times before I realized my error.

I should have said guitar tablature is the ideal micrtonal notation for microtonal *guitars* . I did not mean to imply guitar tablature is ideal for all instruments.

In addition I had envisioned including a percussion line (single line staff) to explicitly state the rythymn.

I hope that is clearer.

Chris