thanks manuel

thanks to manuel for putting me up for the night, playing lots of cds
for me, helping me with train tickets, showing me scala, and
everything else.

regarding complexity attributes in scala -- i don't think i would say
that the "erlich attribute" or "tenney attribute" of the notes of a
scale should be based on *pitch ratios*. they should be based on
*interval ratios*. so one might either be interested in the *average*
complexity of the intervals formed by the note in question from all
the other notes in the scale, or, in special cases, the complexity of
the interval formed by the note from the tonic (1/1). the latter
would be the current value of the attribute, but i don't think that
is of as general interest or the natural application of these
interval complexity measures to a scale . . .

thanks again!!

(and so sorry graham i missed you -- i assumed incorrectly which
friday and saturday you meant!!!)

Sure, I've enjoyed it too.

> so one might either be interested in the *average*
>complexity of the intervals formed by the note in question from all
>the other notes in the scale, or, in special cases, the complexity of
>the interval formed by the note from the tonic (1/1).

There's an idea, it could be added to the output of
"show/attribute intervals" which I didn't show you.

Manuel

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, manuel.op.de.coul@e... wrote:
> Sure, I've enjoyed it too.
>
> > so one might either be interested in the *average*
> >complexity of the intervals formed by the note in question from all
> >the other notes in the scale, or, in special cases, the complexity of
> >the interval formed by the note from the tonic (1/1).
>
> There's an idea, it could be added to the output of
> "show/attribute intervals" which I didn't show you.
>
> Manuel

i think it would be good to have a graphical scale analysis tool. the
dyadic one would look like the blackjack interval matrix (.jpg file to
be referenced in my next messaage), and you could move the scale tones
around by dragging the lines (or indicators on a separate slider, which
would then move the lines accordingly). that would be cool.

Paul wrote:
>i think it would be good to have a graphical scale analysis tool.

Do you mean with a colour representation of attribute values,
like in your gif picture?
There are some other graphical analysis things in the to-do list
already, don't think I'll get to it soon.

Manuel

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, manuel.op.de.coul@e... wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> >i think it would be good to have a graphical scale analysis tool.
>
> Do you mean with a colour representation of attribute values,
> like in your gif picture?

to start with, it would be good enough to simply have all the
consonant intervals (say within a given odd limit) show up as
diagonal lines -- the rest of the chart can be all white or all black
for now . . . the point is you could visually tweak the scale with an
eye toward approximating this consonance here and that consonance
there . . . don´t know of a better way to acheive this goal than an
applet like this!

>to start with, it would be good enough to simply have all the
>consonant intervals (say within a given odd limit) show up as
>diagonal lines -- the rest of the chart can be all white or all black
>for now . . . the point is you could visually tweak the scale with an
>eye toward approximating this consonance here and that consonance
>there . . . don´t know of a better way to achieve this goal than an
>applet like this!

Ok I understand. It probably won't be much work to expand the triad
player to do this.

Manuel

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, manuel.op.de.coul@e... wrote:
> >to start with, it would be good enough to simply have all the
> >consonant intervals (say within a given odd limit) show up as
> >diagonal lines -- the rest of the chart can be all white or all
black
> >for now . . . the point is you could visually tweak the scale with
an
> >eye toward approximating this consonance here and that consonance
> >there . . . don´t know of a better way to achieve this goal than an
> >applet like this!
>
> Ok I understand. It probably won't be much work to expand the triad
> player to do this.
>
> Manuel

the triad player? . . . what's weird is that the idea above deals
with dyads, while i had a similar idea actually dealing with triads --
plotting all the triads in the scale on top of the snowflake, and
seeing how the points (scale's triads) move around as you fiddle with
the scale (possibly with an eye towards approximating a number of
otonal triads) . . .

>the triad player? . . . what's weird is that the idea above deals
>with dyads, while i had a similar idea actually dealing with triads --

Yes, that doesn't matter. The triad player also plays dyads by the way.
It can only play triads with one fixed tone, 1/1 or the octave.

> plotting all the triads in the scale on top of the snowflake, and
>seeing how the points (scale's triads) move around as you fiddle with
>the scale (possibly with an eye towards approximating a number of
>otonal triads) . . .

So this is quite another story.

Manuel

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, manuel.op.de.coul@e... wrote:

> > plotting all the triads in the scale on top of the snowflake, and
> >seeing how the points (scale's triads) move around as you fiddle
with
> >the scale (possibly with an eye towards approximating a number of
> >otonal triads) . . .
>
> So this is quite another story.

yes, i wouldn't expect this anytime soon, while a dyad analysis tool
like i suggested (with my colorful blackjack diagram) would be one of
the first things i would expect from a program called scala :)