13-limit Orwell

There's another naming discrepancy out there, this time over 13-limit
Orwell. What is 13-limit Orwell? Is it the thing called "Julia" on the
wiki, which is 22 & 31? Or is it the thing called "Winston" on the
wiki, which is 22f & 31?

- Graham wants 22&31 (Julia) to be Orwell.
- Herman wants 22f&31 (Winston) to be Orwell.
- Gene wants neither to be Orwell, and for them both to have separate names.
- Herman also noted that Newspeak at one point was called Orwell, and
that the names haven't been consistent.

Although Julia is the lowest in badness, I note that for whatever
reason, Winston pops up first in the temperament finder

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/uv.cgi?uvs=99%3A98+121%3A120+176%3A175&page=2&limit=13

And that there's a lot of Winston+ 17-limit extensions on the first
page, more than "Orwell+"'s, which would be Julia+ by the above naming
convention

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/uv.cgi?uvs=99%3A98+121%3A120+176%3A175&page=2&limit=17

So I do think that Winston might be the best candidate for 13-limit
Orwell. But I'm a bit confused as to why there's a discrepancy between
whether Julia or Winston is lowest in badness - is the idea that
logflat badness and TE badness are disagreeing here?

-Mike

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> Although Julia is the lowest in badness, I note that for whatever
> reason, Winston pops up first in the temperament finder
>
> http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/uv.cgi?uvs=99%3A98+121%3A120+176%3A175&page=2&limit=13

The temperament finder uses Cangwu badness. I wish Graham would implement sorting by logflat badness as an option, but so far he hasn't.

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> There's another naming discrepancy out there, this time over 13-limit
> Orwell. What is 13-limit Orwell? Is it the thing called "Julia" on the
> wiki, which is 22 & 31? Or is it the thing called "Winston" on the
> wiki, which is 22f & 31?
>
> - Graham wants 22&31 (Julia) to be Orwell.
> - Herman wants 22f&31 (Winston) to be Orwell.
> - Gene wants neither to be Orwell, and for them both to have separate names.
> - Herman also noted that Newspeak at one point was called Orwell, and
> that the names haven't been consistent.

Don't forget blair, which is 22 & 31f.

Here are the equal temperaments for each:

Julia: 22 (patent val), 31 (patent val), 53 (patent val), 84e
Winston: 22f, 31 (patent val), 53f
Blair: 22 (patent val), 31f, 53ff

If you want both julia and winston, use 31edo. If you want both julia and blair, use 22edo. (Either of these pairs could lead to unequal circulating temperaments, for picky people.)

If you want both winston and blair, you're out of luck because you probably won't be satisfied with 9edo.

Keenan

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> - Graham wants 22&31 (Julia) to be Orwell.
> - Herman wants 22f&31 (Winston) to be Orwell.
> - Gene wants neither to be Orwell, and for them both to have separate names.

I'm amenable to switching julia to orwell.

On 1/16/2012 10:59 PM, Keenan Pepper wrote:
> --- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia<battaglia01@...> wrote:
>>
>> There's another naming discrepancy out there, this time over 13-limit
>> Orwell. What is 13-limit Orwell? Is it the thing called "Julia" on the
>> wiki, which is 22& 31? Or is it the thing called "Winston" on the
>> wiki, which is 22f& 31?
>>
>> - Graham wants 22&31 (Julia) to be Orwell.
>> - Herman wants 22f&31 (Winston) to be Orwell.
>> - Gene wants neither to be Orwell, and for them both to have separate names.
>> - Herman also noted that Newspeak at one point was called Orwell, and
>> that the names haven't been consistent.
>
> Don't forget blair, which is 22& 31f.

There's also a 53&75. [<1 0 3 1 3 -4|, <0 7 -3 8 2 34|]

I think the existing names are fine, just pointing out that julia isn't the only candidate for "orwell", and not the one I would have picked. There's a few current names I disagree with, but none strongly enough to object (except maybe for "mavila" as 7d&16, but that temperament doesn't look good enough that anyone's going to care what it's called).

I would've said that 7&9 should have been "mavila", but now that we've got "armodue" it resolved that issue. Maybe 10e&12f would've been a better candidate for 13-limit pajara. Or maybe we should always specify ET combinations like "10e&12f pajara" or "22&31 orwell" when dealing with higher limits (especially with the many potential higher-limit versions of pajara: 12&22, 12&22f, 12f&22...)

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Herman Miller <hmiller@prismnet.com> wrote:
>
> There's a few current names I disagree with, but none strongly enough to
> object (except maybe for "mavila" as 7d&16, but that temperament doesn't
> look good enough that anyone's going to care what it's called).
>
> I would've said that 7&9 should have been "mavila", but now that we've
> got "armodue" it resolved that issue.

I do agree that 7&9 beats 7d&16, but the name "armodue" was already in
common use on XA - people were talking about how Armodue existed in
23-EDO and 25-EDO and such, and were basically treating it as though
it were a linear temperament with a certain mapping for 7/4. Plus,
it's been around for a decade, so it only seemed logical that it
should get the name.

Maybe we shouldn't even call 7d&16 "mavila" at all - maybe it should
be something else and the name "mavila" should die in the 5-limit?

-Mike

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, Herman Miller <hmiller@...> wrote:
>
> On 1/16/2012 10:59 PM, Keenan Pepper wrote:
> > --- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia<battaglia01@> wrote:
> >>
> >> There's another naming discrepancy out there, this time over 13-limit
> >> Orwell. What is 13-limit Orwell? Is it the thing called "Julia" on the
> >> wiki, which is 22& 31? Or is it the thing called "Winston" on the
> >> wiki, which is 22f& 31?
> >>
> >> - Graham wants 22&31 (Julia) to be Orwell.
> >> - Herman wants 22f&31 (Winston) to be Orwell.
> >> - Gene wants neither to be Orwell, and for them both to have separate names.
> >> - Herman also noted that Newspeak at one point was called Orwell, and
> >> that the names haven't been consistent.
> >
> > Don't forget blair, which is 22& 31f.
>
> There's also a 53&75. [<1 0 3 1 3 -4|, <0 7 -3 8 2 34|]
>
> I think the existing names are fine, just pointing out that julia isn't
> the only candidate for "orwell", and not the one I would have picked.

Could we get a consensus on the Orwell/Julia question?

--- In tuning-math@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:

> Could we get a consensus on the Orwell/Julia question?
>

I've changed the Xenwiki to align with Graham.