RE: TUNING digest 1568

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tuning@eartha.mills.edu [SMTP:tuning@eartha.mills.edu]
> Sent: None
> To: Paul H. Erlich
> Subject: TUNING digest 1568
>
> TUNING Digest 1568
>
> Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Re: More Wilson Archive
> by "Paul H. Erlich"
> 2) Re: TUNING digest 1567
> by Larry.Polansky@Dartmouth.EDU (Larry Polansky)
> 3) RE: consonance definition?
> by "Paul H. Erlich"
> 4) Re: updates to my website
> by monz@juno.com
> 5) Re: international microtonal conference
> by monz@juno.com
> 6) Re: international microtonal conference
> by Lydia Ayers
> 7) Conference proposals
> by Leigh Smith
> 8) Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple!
> by Charles Lucy
> 9) Re: Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple!
> by Gary Morrison
> 10) Re: TUNING digest 1567
> by "Robin Perry"
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 1
>
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:12:11 -0500
> From: "Paul H. Erlich"
> To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'"
> Subject: Re: More Wilson Archive
> Message-ID:
>
> Thanks, Kraig, for the great work. Wilson's work deserved to be seen
> and
> studied by all of us. I must complain, though, that the low resolution
> of the scans (were they faxes?) has had me straining my eyes, but so
> far
> context has helped me to tell 3s from 5s, etc.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 2
>
> Date: 29 Oct 98 16:34:21 EST
> From: Larry.Polansky@Dartmouth.EDU (Larry Polansky)
> To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: TUNING digest 1567
> Message-ID: <13096623@prancer.Dartmouth.EDU>
>
> --- You wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of
> consonance?
>
>
> Robin
>
> --- end of quote ---
>
> I teach this topic a lot in my classes, robin, and there are some good
> resources. historically, tenney's History of Consonance and Dissonance
> is a
> good reference. Mathematically, i work a lot with my students (and use
> in my
> own composition work) some variant of the tenney HD function, which is
> very
> similar to the Euler function and the barlow function (these are
> explained
> pretty well in Chalmer's "Divisions...".). we've done some fun things
> here in
> seminars with plotting the different functions over common intervals,
> and so
> on, and it turns out that they're all pretty similar (low primes vs.
> few
> exponents is the basic idea), but have some interesting differences as
> well.
>
>
> these are not cognitive functions, exactly, which would need to use
> the
> critical band and a heck of a lot of other things (including timbre,
> context,
> temporal displacement, memory, etc etc etc)... they are something more
> like
> very concise cognitively informed musical similarity functions (if
> that makes
> any sense)
>
>
> lp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 3
>
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:46:16 -0500
> From: "Paul H. Erlich"
> To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'"
> Subject: RE: consonance definition?
> Message-ID:
>
> >Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of
> consonance?
>
> I hope not! Consonance is not a mathematical phenomenon, it is a
> psychoacoustic one. Once the ear-brain system is understood,
> quantifying
> consonance would thus seem possible; in fact there are at least three
> distinct psychoacoustic phenomena which can be modelled mathematically
> and contribute to the perception of consonance:
>
> (1) critical band roughness, on which Kameoka & Kuriyagawa and
> Sethares
> have done work on fleshing out the quantitative implications;
>
> (2) fundamental tracking / virtual pitch / fusion, which motivates
> Parncutt's whole quantitative approach;
>
> (3) nonlinear combination tones, which are the basis of Bohlen's view
> of
> consonance and have been studied extensively by psychoacousticians
> whose
> names I don't remember.
>
> Unfortunately, these three different phenomena are not independent so
> formulating a unified model of consonance seems impossibly difficult
> at
> the present. However, all three of these phenomena lead to the
> following
> conclusion, at least for tones with harmonic timbres:
>
> Approximate small-integer frequency ratios = Consonant intervals.
>
> But beyond these psychoacoustic factors, there are psychological ones
> that relate to way music unfolds in time. A diminished fourth is
> dissonant in 12-tET even though it sounds exactly like a major third
> out
> of context. As Ernst Toch pointed out, even an octave can be dissonant
> in certain contexts. So even a unified model as suggested above would
> have rather limited applicability.
>
> If you would like an elaboration of any of the above points, just ask!
> (Sethares is around too).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 4
>
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:56:41 -0800
> From: monz@juno.com
> To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: updates to my website
> Message-ID: <19981029.185643.-210867.5.monz@juno.com>
>
> Just wanted to let y'all know that I've been
> slaving away at my website. There's lots
> of new stuff, new links to stuff that was
> already there, and many corrections.
>
> (The size of non-microtonality material is
> also growing -- can't help it, I'm deeply
> interested in lots of other things.)
>
> Of particular interest to you folks would be
> the Robert Johnson and Jimi Hendrix pages --
> any guitarists willing to tackle "Hendrix Chord"?
>
> - Joe Monzo
> monz@juno.com
> http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
> http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 5
>
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:52:28 -0800
> From: monz@juno.com
> To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: international microtonal conference
> Message-ID: <19981029.185643.-210867.4.monz@juno.com>
>
> > From Fred Kohler:
>
> > Gary Morrison said:
>
> >> Hmmm... It seemed like San Diego was getting a lot of approval,
> >> but whatever...
> >
> >I agree. San Diego was getting a lot of votes. I'd like to add my
> >vote for San Diego also.
>
> > From Bill Alves:
>
> > I think that a "vote" is premature. The question is not just what
> city
> > is the nicest/most convenient, but what facilities, funding, concert
>
> > spaces, accomodations, equipment, etc. are available (unless people
> > prefer to have just a short, informal get-together). I would be
> > happy to go to San Diego (it's close, less work for me!).
>
> Sounded to me like we were reaching something resembling a
> consensus on San Diego. (Of course, my opinion is biased)
>
> Sonic Arts would be ideal for "a short, informal get-together".
> If anyone in San Diego or coming to town is interested, all it
> takes is a call or email to us.
>
> Patrick Ozzard-Low (see Ehrlich's posting in TD 1567 re: the
> Boston meeting) is now in California, and will be presenting
> a seminar on new microtonal instruments here at UCSD on Monday
> (November 2nd at 11:15 am in Erickson Hall -- John Fonville
> has welcomed the local microtonal community to attend).
>
> Needless to say, Patrick will be visiting us to examine our
> unique collection of instruments. Our mission is to glue
> together the disparate elements of microtonalia in SoCal,
> so all are welcome.
>
> I envisioned the international conference to be something on a
> MUCH grander scale, the likes of which have never before been
> seen in microtonalitydom.
>
> Bill's suggestions re: facilities are right-on -- it's important
> to be properly prepared for something of this magnitude. The more
> time spent in preparation and the more ergonomic the facilities,
> the more valuable the whole experience will be for all of us.
>
> There are a few of us in San Diego looking into possiblities of
> university sponsorship (or at least hosting). No serious decisions
> should be made until a school or other facility has made an
> agreement for this purpose. Then we can proceed with calls for
> papers, event planning, etc.
>
> I have already given my support for Bill's procuring Harvey Mudd
> college as a hosting-site, should nothing materialize in San Diego.
>
> - Joe Monzo
> monz@juno.com
> http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
> http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 6
>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:28:34 +0800
> From: Lydia Ayers
> To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: international microtonal conference
> Message-ID: <199810300328.LAA09191@csnt3.cs.ust.hk>
>
> If we were voting about the conference site, my vote would be
> for the first conference to be at Harvey Mudd with Bill Alves
> planning it with anybody else in the area who wants to help
> out. There is no reason why the folks in San Diego couldn't
> come up and help, since it's not so far away.
>
> Then I would vote to have another conference, a year or two
> later, somewhere else, even San Diego (it wouldn't bother
> me if it was in California twice in a row). Materials from
> a conference that had already met once would give
> the people in San Diego more to show the universities there
> to convince them how worthwhile it would be to host a
>
> microtonal conference, as it appears that none of them are
> currently on the faculty of any of those universities. Well,
> unless someone like Jon Fonville (UCSD) is on board.
>
> I can say from experience that it's much easier with the
> resources of a well-equipped university, and easier if one
>
> of the organizers is on the faculty there. (For example,
>
> when we did ICMC we had to bus people to another venue for
>
> most of the concerts because we don't have a real concert
>
> hall at HKUST, and then we had to deal with the government
>
> sponsor of the other venue. And to make it worse, I wasn't
>
> on the faculty of HKUST at the time, though the co-chair
> was.)
>
> Frankly, for people coming from farther away (for example,
>
> from Hong Kong and Europe), LA might be slightly
>
> more convenient than San Jose, since it's an international
> airport. It also has more direct routes to other places
> in the US.
>
> Well, that's my .02 cents.
>
> Best,
>
> Lydia Ayers
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 7
>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:32:42 +0800
> From: Leigh Smith
> To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Conference proposals
> Message-ID: <9810300532.AA02064@antechinus.cs.uwa.edu.au>
>
> As a microtonalist in Perth, Western Australia, voting for San Diego
> vs.
> some other U.S. city is voting for Mars rather than Jupiter...
>
> It's not out of the question that I would make the effort to fly over
>
> (same sentiment as Lydia in HK, I understand), particularly as I
> expect
> to have a couple of more conferences to attend next year in the
> Northern
> summer. What would put me off is if I didn't think it was worthwhile,
> i.e
> if the conference was poorly organised, didn't have a good program of
>
> papers and concerts etc.
>
> The Int. Computer Music Conference is a model of how such a conference
>
> could be organised, lunch and evening concerts, daily papers, keynote
>
> presentations.
>
> I strongly suggest organising via an academic institution, with a
> widely
> selected panel of referees for papers and music (practictioners and
> theorists) to ensure it doesn't become an ivory tower.
>
> The ICMC moves each year according to the hosting organisation. Given
>
> how cheap travelling in the U.S is (in comparison to Australia - I
> have
> to travel 4000Kms to get to another capital city, it's cheaper to get
> to
> Bali than to Sydney), I don't think the location within the
> continental
> U.S. should be the highest priority.
>
> Regards
>
> Leigh
> ---
> Leigh Computer Music Lab, Computer Science Dept,
> Smith University of Western Australia
> +61-8-9380-2279 leigh@cs.uwa.edu.au
> (NeXTMail/MIME)
> Microsoft - Where do you want to compromise today?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 8
>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:04:58 +0000
> From: Charles Lucy
> To: Tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple!
> Message-ID: <3639AB68.E16C16BE@ilhawaii.net>
>
> Robin Perry asked:
> >Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of
> consonance?
>
> >Robin
>
>
>
> Yes, Robin. It seems to be determined by the number of steps between
> the
> pitches on the "spiral" of fourths and fifths.
>
> More steps - more dissonant.
> Less steps - more consonant.
>
> Simple, pragmatic and it works!
>
>
> For details see LucyTuning site
> --
> ~===============================================================~
> Charles Lucy - lucy@harmonics.com (LucyScaleDevelopments)
> ------------ Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -------
> by setting tuning and harmonic standards for the next millennium,
> and having fun with them.
>
> for information on LucyTuning.
> See http://www.ilhawaii.net/~lucy
> or mirrors at: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~harmonic
> and http://www.harmonics.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 9
>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:09:31 -0500
> From: Gary Morrison
> To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: Mathematical explanation of consonance? - Simple!
> Message-ID: <3639AC74.6F9762BD@texas.net>
>
> Charles Lucy wrote:
>
> > Robin Perry asked:
> > >Can anyone offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of
> consonance?
>
> > Yes, Robin. It seems to be determined by the number of steps between
> the
> > pitches on the "spiral" of fourths and fifths.
>
> (Predictable...)
>
> Well Mr. Lucy, I am at a lack to think of *ANY* concept of
> consonance in
> which a harmonic major second (two steps up the circle of fifths),
> would be
> more consonant than a harmonic major third (four steps up the circle).
> Nor
> can I think of any reasoning whereby a major sixth would be regarded
> as
> anything even close to 33% more consonant than a major third.
>
> Also, this says nothing of the distinction between 81:64 and 5:4,
> when the
> consonance difference between the two has been a major historical
> driving
> force in musical-tuning evolution.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Topic No. 10
>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:19:04 PST
> From: "Robin Perry"
> To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: TUNING digest 1567
> Message-ID: <19981030191905.12579.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Neil Haverstick said:
>
> > Let's do the meeting in Denver; then the East Coast folks won't
> have
> >to go so far, everyone can go skiing, and we won't have to worry
> about
> >the giant earthquake that is going to swallow the West Coast...Hstick
>
>
> Obviously Neil doesn't know that the famous psychic Murphy has
> predicted that everything east of the San Andreas Fault is about
> to fall into the Atlantic.
>
> Perhaps we should think about narrowing the focus to the western
> oriented folks for this conference. Not that I want to exclude those
> in
> parts East, but there does seem to be more expressed interest in doing
>
> something in San Diego. Dever is definitely nice in the summer,
> though there is not much skiing going on.
>
> Joe Monzo, are you and your friends there ready and willing to set
> something up? Or are we better off working toward L.A. area?
>
> I would offer to try to set something up here in the Sonoran Desert,
> but summer temps get up to 122 lately. That's why Phoenix has
> such great summer rates.
>
> Robin
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TUNING Digest 1568
> *************************