FWD: Re: Bach's tuning

Mr. Frosztega represents a modern reincarnation of Mr. Marpaug it would
seem. As a legend in his own mind he has deduced what Bach did by his
interpretations of what happened after Bach.

I believe he confuses Bach's intent in saying why all major thirds are
sharp, placing them in an ET context, probably because he is in an ET
context. Using sophistic argument, trailing inconsequential facts, and
finally, making acusations of "revisionism" and implying incompetency are
weak rebuttals for a scholar.

> Yes, you can argue it that way. And yes, you are correct in saying that
> both Wm III and ET have major thirds that are larger than just. But the
> quote in question still refers to equal temperament. Why? Because of the
> context: Most ear-tuning instructions for Circular temperaments in 18th-
> century Germany relied on setting the *fifths* in order to temper the scale.
> I have never seen (I don't think) 18th-century German ear tuning
> instruction that use fifths as a tempering device for Equal Temperament.
> They all used rows of MAJOR THIRDS which were to be made wide!
> (Sorge gave explicit instructions that each successive third should be
> made somewhat *wider* than the last.) Several rows of three successive
> major thirds completed the temperament (the idea was to temper the
> thirds wide to close the lesser diesis; several of these "third-rows" closed
> the Ditonic Comma). On the issue of tuning, C.P.E. Bach even
> recommends that his readers buy Barthold Fritz's _Zuverlaessige
> Anweisung._, which gives instruction for EQUAL TEMPERAMENT.
>
> Get over it. Bach probably wrote (at least his harpsichord works) for Equal
> Temperament or something darn close to it. Not all the revisionism in the
> world can alter the *evidence.*

It is the evidence that is presented here that is in question. The
tuning instructions for Werckmeister III are explicit: they are based on
tuning 5ths, with the 4 larger-than-just thirds merely resulting. The
Lubeck Marienkirche which contains 2 organs used by Buxtehude kept 2
organs: the large one in ET, the "kleine" in Werckmeister III...all
before J.S. Bach, according to church records. Based on key
requirements, an organ was chosen, and a Mr. Shoof employs this practice
today with recent recordings of both Buxtehude and JS Bach.

> >Further, Kirnberger himself gave directions for the tempered fifth whose
> >ratio (10935:16384) is almost exactly 1/12 of a comma smaller than the
> >pure fifth in several publications, including his *Von der Temperatur*.

> Kirnberger never wrote a book called "Von der Temperatur."

"Von der Temperatur is 4 pages long and I have a copy...no one said it
was a book. It is contained at the end of the translated *Kunst...* and
appeared earlier in the preface to the fourth collection of Kirnberger's
*Clavierubungen* (Berlin, 1766) and later in the preface to his
*Vermischte Musicalien* (Berlin, 1769).


> (2) I find it distressing that historical evidence continues to be ignored and
> that the "temperament revisionists," standing on the shakiest of grounds
> and often without being really read in the subject, continue to disseminate
> disinformation that misleads people and results in performances of
> dubious historical accuracy.
>
> Aleksander Frosztega
> > ignore the evidence>

Please calm your distress and keep a more open mind regarding historical
truths. Music contains many falsities that have been built upon, amount
to a proverbial mountain of cards. I agree that as a performer
phenomenologically captures the intent of a composer regarding
interpretation, he or she must try to ascertain the tuning framework that
the composer, his milieu, and his age supported and/or endorsed. It is
not a coincidence that most important works on tuning are as yet
unavailable in translated languages, including important tracts by
Zarlino, Fux, and Werckmeister. At least Kirnberger is available and he
is not the quack. He was an accomplished musician with great reverence
for his "old-fashioned" teach of less than 2 years. As a theorist he
participated in the exciting theory debates of Berlin - the major center
for such discussions for its time.

Face it: there is no evidence that JS Bach favored, or even used ET in
his earlier works. And to some ears, his music is quite enriched by
variegation of keys.

Johnny Reinhard
Director
American Festival of Microtonal Music, Inc.
reinhard@styx.ios.com


Manuel:

Thanks for keeping this thread going. Please continue once again to pass
this to the harpsichord list.

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