Greek chords (was RE: 19, 22, etc)

Gary Morrison wrote:
> Again, I was only going back to early Renaissance times. If you go back
>further than that, I must confess that I honestly have no idea if triads
>were used in ancient greek music. I guess it's reasonable to suppose that
>they were since Ptolemy suggested a tuning with 5:4 and 5:3 in it, but that
>question is in none of my areas of expertise, I'm afraid.

Well, triadic-based harmony as we usually think of it is really a European
technique that begins around the turn of the 15th century (though the idea
of a triad as an invertible collection is not found in theory until some
time later). Most other traditional musical cultures do not use harmony in
the European sense and the ancient Greeks were no exception.

Now, I'm not an expert on ancient Greek music either, but when reading
West's book on the subject I was struck by a remarkable fact that he
documents quite clearly. Apparently, the ancient kithara (lyre) players did
not just pluck out monophonic melodies as I had previously thought. In
addition to plucking those melodies with the left hand, they would strum a
plectrum across the strings with the right hand. Not only that, it appears
that they also used the left hand to damp certain strings so that the
strumming would result in a particular chord. These strums would come at
cadences or other pauses when accompanying a singer, more freely in
instrumental performances, and constantly in processional orchestrals.

While West doesn't go into it, the implications for tuning are very
important. If the Greeks had only played monophonic melodies, then clearly
there would be a much greater tolerance for tuning errors, and the
difference between a just and a slightly tempered interval would be mainly
of academic or metaphysical interest. Thus some people were skeptical that
the tunings that Ptolemy collected were anything but a kind of
numerological ideal largely unrelated to actual practice.

In his recent 1/1 article on difference tones, Dudley Duncan sought to
address this apparent problem by proposing that the Greeks would have been
sensitive to the simultaneous intervals present in the overlapping decays
of successive notes. If the kitharodes were playing chords, however, they
would presumably be able to clearly hear beats, and the choice between
Pythagorean, just, or Aristoxenian would be of much more than theoretical
interest to them.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


SMTPOriginator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
From: Paul Hahn
Subject: RE: re 19, 22, etc
PostedDate: 31-12-97 01:48:31
SendTo: CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH
ReplyTo: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
$MessageStorage: 0
$UpdatedBy: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH,CN=Manuel op de Coul/OU=AT/O=EZH
RouteServers: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=notesrv1/OU=Server/O=EZH
RouteTimes: 31-12-97 01:46:12-31-12-97 01:46:14,31-12-97 01:45:36-31-12-97 01:45:36
DeliveredDate: 31-12-97 01:45:36
Categories:
$Revisions:

Received: from ns.ezh.nl ([137.174.112.59]) by notesrv2.ezh.nl (Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2
9-3-1997)) with SMTP id C125657E.00043767; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:47:59 +0100
Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA28259; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:48:31 +0100
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:48:31 +0100
Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA28006
Received: (qmail 1433 invoked from network); 30 Dec 1997 16:48:27 -0800
Received: from localhost (HELO ella.mills.edu) (127.0.0.1)
by localhost with SMTP; 30 Dec 1997 16:48:27 -0800
Message-Id:
Errors-To: madole@mills.edu
Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu

>>In short then, the case for the idea that horizontal and vertical
>>aspects of music can't be taken in isolation, ...
>..how you are using "vertical and horizontal"?

In terms of a conductor's score: "Vertical" to me means what you see
looking vertically down the page, which are notes playing at the same time,
meaning harmony without regard to time. "Horizontal" is what you see
moving horizontally across the page, meaning a single voice of the ensemble
performing over time, meaning (essentially) melody, and when they are
compared to one another, counterpoint.


SMTPOriginator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
From: mr88cet@texas.net (Gary Morrison)
Subject: RE: PLANCK CONSTANT
PostedDate: 31-12-97 05:06:09
SendTo: CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH
ReplyTo: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
$MessageStorage: 0
$UpdatedBy: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=coul1358/OU=AT/O=EZH,CN=Manuel op de Coul/OU=AT/O=EZH
RouteServers: CN=notesrv2/OU=Server/O=EZH,CN=notesrv1/OU=Server/O=EZH
RouteTimes: 31-12-97 05:03:45-31-12-97 05:03:45,31-12-97 05:03:08-31-12-97 05:03:09
DeliveredDate: 31-12-97 05:03:09
Categories:
$Revisions:

Received: from ns.ezh.nl ([137.174.112.59]) by notesrv2.ezh.nl (Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2
9-3-1997)) with SMTP id C125657E.00164F59; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 05:05:37 +0100
Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA28535; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 05:06:09 +0100
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 05:06:09 +0100
Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA28532
Received: (qmail 13617 invoked from network); 30 Dec 1997 20:05:48 -0800
Received: from localhost (HELO ella.mills.edu) (127.0.0.1)
by localhost with SMTP; 30 Dec 1997 20:05:48 -0800
Message-Id:
Errors-To: madole@mills.edu
Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Sender: tuning@eartha.mills.edu