Harvard's Just

Ladies and Gents:

Out of boredom and final exam disorganization I hapted to open a copy of the
Harvard Dictory of Music- albiet an older edition and turned to the enclosure
about Just Intonation- and immediately realized why I haven't opened a copy of
Harvard DM since undergraduate school- for holiday cheer check it out!


Allen Strange
School of Music and Dance
San Jose State University
San Jose, CA 95192-0095


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From: Gregg Gibson
Subject: More on the 19-tone Equal Temperament
PostedDate: 09-12-97 01:44:47
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>My comments on the intervals of 19-tone equal at the limit of human
>perception seem to have provoked some disbelief. I am indeed serious. Of
>course anyone can distinguish between tones as little as 5-10 cents
>apart in successive hearings. But if one substitutes one such tone for
>the other in a given melody, not one person in a thousand will identify
>that _melody_ as different.

The same is true if I change tones by 100 cents. In other words, if I put
"Happy Birthday" into a minor key, people will still recognize it as "Happy
Birthday," albeit with a rather different sound. The same is true for much
smaller intervals. The psychological mechanisms for recognizing melodies
depends on a lot more than the absolute sizes of successive intervals.
Anyway, I do not choose tuning systems to make sure that a melody is
perceived as different if I choose a slightly altered set of intervals.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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From: Johnny Reinhard
Subject: Re: More on the 19-tone Equal Temperament
PostedDate: 09-12-97 23:58:01
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Greg, I imagine you are speaking to the diesis: that which is the smallest
interval in the system, as the indicator of melodic threshold of
sensibility.

If so, you seem to negate by deemphasis all the variations of melodic
intervals that are used lovingly by performers, from Barbara Streisand to
Billie Holiday. These musicians "know" the intervals they want to sing
before they sing them, and they repeat them night after night, year
after year, in their basic etchings.

Incidentally, the rapid melodic ascension of "small" microtones
back and forth was described as a frenzied army of ants by ancient Greeks.

I do agree that 19ET has a lot going for it. However, each and every
interval holds meaning.

Johnny Reinhard
Director
American Festival of Microtonal Music
318 East 70th Street, Suite 5FW
New York, New York 10021 USA
(212)517-3550/fax (212) 517-5495
reinhard@idt.net
http://www.echonyc.com/~jhhl/AFMM


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From: "Paul H. Erlich"
Subject: to G. Gibson
PostedDate: 10-12-97 00:10:25
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>... if one substitutes one such [5 to 10 cents different] tone for
>the other in a given melody, not one person in a thousand will identify
>that _melody_ as different.

Consider a counterexample: the stereotypical junior-high-school band
student attempting to learn an instrument. S/he plays a lot of
nominally-12TET notes off by 10-20 cents (far less than the 60-cent limit
Gregg suggested). I doubt if many would find the task of detecting those
notes as sounding wrong, to be a particularly amazing feat of musical
discrimination.

One could characterize (although it probably wouldn't be an ideal
characterization) composing and performing in unusual tunings as doing
intentionally, systematically, and/or by design, what that student does
haphazardly.


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From: mr88cet@texas.net (Gary Morrison)
Subject: Re: lutes again
PostedDate: 15-12-97 03:10:21
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On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Gary Morrison wrote:
>
> Consider a counterexample: the stereotypical junior-high-school band
> student attempting to learn an instrument. S/he plays a lot of
> nominally-12TET notes off by 10-20 cents (far less than the 60-cent limit
> Gregg suggested). I doubt if many would find the task of detecting those
> notes as sounding wrong, to be a particularly amazing feat of musical
> discrimination.
>
> One could characterize (although it probably wouldn't be an ideal
> characterization) composing and performing in unusual tunings as doing
> intentionally, systematically, and/or by design, what that student does
> haphazardly.
>
Actually I think Greg's point is that very few would hear what the band
student does is NOT out of tune! So why should we intentionally create
music that sounds out of tune, haphazardly or not!

Bruce Kanzelmeyer


SMTPOriginator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
From: Mckyyy
Subject: RE: Just Interval Progressions
PostedDate: 19-12-97 19:04:36
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>Actually I think Greg's point is that very few would hear what the band
>student does is NOT out of tune! So why should we intentionally create
>music that sounds out of tune, haphazardly or not!

Ah.

If that is Gregg's point, then my answer would be that with
carefully-devised detunings, you can achieve some unique musical effects.


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From: DMB5561719
Subject: Doty:McLaren:Gibson
PostedDate: 20-12-97 15:54:02
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