Beethoven C# and Db

I don't know the reference here, but I know from personal
experience that C# and Db can be quite different. It would
be, of course, impossible to tune them both on the same piano
at the same time, but that doesn't make them equivalent,
except within the artificialities of ET.

Will



Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl
with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:44 +0100
Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA02785; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:44:14 +0100
Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA02730
Received: from by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI)
id CAA05729; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 02:42:37 -0800
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 02:42:37 -0800
Message-Id:
Errors-To: madole@mills.edu
Reply-To: tuning@ella.mills.edu
Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Sender: tuning@ella.mills.edu

I'm jumping into this conversation in mid-course, so I may well be
missing the context. If so, my apologies.


-------------------- Begin Original Message --------------------

Message text written by INTERNET:tuning@ella.mills.edu

"ergo, the distinction between C# and Db makes sense
_only_ in well temperament. But of course, you can't
set two different temperaments at once, at least not
on a piano.
"


-------------------- End Original Message --------------------

Welll...

Certainly C# and Db are different in meantone temperaments and just
intonation as well as in well temperaments. And also in 17TET, 19TET and
31TET as well.

But even if they are tuned exactly the same as they are in 12TET or
24TET, the two notes are functionally different. C# is nominally the
leading tone in the key of D, and Db ... well, Db could be a number of
formulations, like the seventh of a dominant seventh in the key of Ab, or
the root of a Neapolitan in C.

Certainly those keys are not extremely closely related, so the reasons
why C# and Db should be identical (or bear any particular relationship to
one another), are fairly complex. A tritone substitution, however, can get
you from D to Ab in a flash, so that's probably the most direct
relationship between the two.

Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl
with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 05:50 +0100
Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA10048; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 05:50:36 +0100
Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA09860
Received: from by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI)
id UAA02860; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 20:49:09 -0800
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 20:49:09 -0800
Message-Id: <199703082345_MC2-124D-A3A9@compuserve.com>
Errors-To: madole@mills.edu
Reply-To: tuning@ella.mills.edu
Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Sender: tuning@ella.mills.edu