Ghosttones reply ^n Sea Turtles...

I thought sea turtles were an endangered species.
There's a whole family surfing about 50 yards beyond my monitor in
Hilo Bay.
Anyway....
>Are you sure that the ghosttone positions line
>up exactly with the fret positions, and aren't
>slightly displaced in some places?

How wide is your finger? How thick is a fret?

>Giving the frequencies of fretted notes doesn't
>specify the frequencies of the ghosttones you
>get when you touch the string directly above or
>near those frets.

Of course the fretted frequencies are
the fretted frequencies.
The ghosttones producted by touching at these
positions are another value, which I am to test.

>Please just give me a simple list of the ghosttones
>in your proposed series, with their frequencies and
>string positions, and don't include string positions
>which have no ghosttones--they just clutter the list.

I will do as soon as I get back home and get it organised.

>The best way to notate the string positions would
>probably be as a percentage of string length, since
>this can be translated to any string, and easily
>compared to other models of where vibrational
>nodes are found.

Percentages sound fine to me:
So first octave would be 50% etc.


>That was your text, so you should know.

I thought it was a "dumb" query.

>Saying "usually related to..." is not a sufficient
>specification.

Agreed! I need to test on a real instrument or string.

>How is it that you don't already know the pitches of
>the ghosttone sequence for which you claim to have a
>better model?

Because I did the experiments ten years ago, and I have moved house
thirty times in the meantime. The original results are probably in
the
barn in Herefordshire UK, and I am currently in Hilo, Hawaii.


>So the other frets which produce B's don't represent
>ghosttone positions?

The other B's are really irrelevant, because you will get the same
result from each end of the string.
The only other B fret positions on the string which is tuned to "A",
will be on the second half of the string. i.e. >50%

So all values for ghosttone positions will be 50% or less,
as the upper 50% will be a mirror image of the lower 50%.



>Where does an octave fit into a sequence of fourths
>and fifths? As you know, no number of fourths and
>fifths will produce an octave (except in equal
>temperaments).

At the first stage. i.e. at the 50% position.

> and octave above (2nd octave fret); 3/4 of distance
> nut to bridge:

>Same problem; octaves never occur in a sequence of
>fourths and fifths. Please explain this contradiction.

An octave is an octave, is an octave.

ratio 2/1 in these cases.

Therefore ocatves are at 50%, 25%, 12.5% 6.25% etc.
yet which octave, I have yet to ascertain again.

>Have you measured the frequencies of the open string
>and this ghosttone using a tuner to see if their
>interval ratio is indeed 2.988824? This would be an
>obvious first test of your model.

Yes, yet it tells me more about the electronics and
limitations of my tuner, than about the string sounds
or frequencies it is supposed to be reading ....

Counting beating against another nearby tuned string with
a metronome makes more sense to me.

Charles Lucy

(Wonder if they continue surfing after dark?)
It's sunset here in hawaii.

Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl
with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:34 +0100
Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA12205; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:34:57 +0100
Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA12078
Received: from by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI)
id VAA29205; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:32:57 -0800
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:32:57 -0800
Message-Id: <330BDFD7.3AF7@ix.netcom.com>
Errors-To: madole@mills.edu
Reply-To: tuning@ella.mills.edu
Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Sender: tuning@ella.mills.edu

Forgive me if I'm getting involved in a side point here, but...

-------------------- Begin Original Message --------------------

Message text written by Neil:

"In 34 tone eq, you have a comma because of two separate circles of 5ths"


-------------------- End Original Message --------------------

Weeeellll... the two circles are a pseudocomma apart alright, but I'm
sure if 34TET's pseudocomma can be said to be because of its double circle
of fifths. I suppose it may be OK to suggest the cause-effect in reverse.
And certainly there are double-circle systems that DON't have pseudocomma
problems, quartertones for example.

The pseudocomma in 34TET, 22TET, and 53TET are due to the same source as
the (real) comma in 5-limit JI: The (major) third of a chord does not
appear four identical fifths above the root. Four 34TET fifths above the
root of a chord is its supramajor third, 1/34 above the real major third.

Received: from ns.ezh.nl [137.174.112.59] by vbv40.ezh.nl
with SMTP-OpenVMS via TCP/IP; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:11 +0100
Received: by ns.ezh.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA13358; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:11:05 +0100
Received: from ella.mills.edu by ns (smtpxd); id XA13352
Received: from by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI)
id VAA28353; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:09:20 -0800
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:09:20 -0800
Message-Id: <199702210005_MC2-118C-A6B0@compuserve.com>
Errors-To: madole@mills.edu
Reply-To: tuning@ella.mills.edu
Originator: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
Sender: tuning@ella.mills.edu