Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning back to you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-back on metatuning

> From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
>
> well at least we are all still talking despite our differences.
> i do not see any way to resolve problems with someone who will not
> communicate.
>
> i can only imagine this is pretty much how this whole thing is
> unfortunately playing out on a larger scale.
>

Well put KG.

although maybe not. It's actually even more sad than that. Because here
we saw that a devout Christion can get along (relatively speaking) quite
well with a devout Muslim.

On the world scale, though, what's happening is Christionaity (or
Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam. It's NOT atheism vs. Islam.

I don't know if Ozan is listening any more, but he should remember that
the Americans who believe in imperialism are the ones who are the most
religious. The people who opposed attacking Iraq, Afghanistan, and
etc. are probably a high percentage of atheists. these same people
would also largely oppose forcing American culture down the throats of
other cultures.

But probably Ozan is not listening anymore, and so we return to
buddy-buddy, preaching-to-the-choir, you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll
-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-back normalcy on metatuning, where
nobody learns anything new or gains any new understanding of the world.

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

i agree it is quite sad that the communication broke down.
But this seemed to be decided upon a priori

Christopher Bailey wrote:

>> From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> >>
>>well at least we are all still talking despite our differences.
>>i do not see any way to resolve problems with someone who will not
>>communicate. >>
>>i can only imagine this is pretty much how this whole thing is
>>unfortunately playing out on a larger scale. >>
>> >>
>
>
>Well put KG. >
>
>although maybe not. It's actually even more sad than that. Because here >we saw that a devout Christion can get along (relatively speaking) quite >well with a devout Muslim. >
>On the world scale, though, what's happening is Christionaity (or >Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam. It's NOT atheism vs. Islam.
>
>I don't know if Ozan is listening any more, but he should remember that >the Americans who believe in imperialism are the ones who are the most >religious. The people who opposed attacking Iraq, Afghanistan, and >etc. are probably a high percentage of atheists. these same people >would also largely oppose forcing American culture down the throats of >other cultures.
>
>But probably Ozan is not listening anymore, and so we return to >buddy-buddy, preaching-to-the-choir, you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll >-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-back normalcy on metatuning, where >nobody learns anything new or gains any new understanding of the world. >
>
>CB
>
>
>
>
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@...>

I wrote:

> > On the world scale, though, what's happening is
> > Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
> > It's NOT atheism vs. Islam.
>
> It is true that insofar as religions (and cultures) are a
> kind of software that dictate how humans live, they tend
> to be competetive where strongly differentiated. As good
> a reason for fighting as a difference in genes (race).
> Surely, the only two causes in the history of war.
>
> It has been said (even by myself in a past life) that all
> war is economic in nature. But this isn't correct.
> Those who share a common race/culture tend to share
> resources; those who don't, don't. So all war does aim
> to for profit (in the long term), but the existence of
> resources does not explain contention over them.

I meant to add:

However, in this particular case, Chris, I disagree.
While our invasion of Iraq is a Christendom vs. Islam
thing, the greatest threat to Islam is from within.
Ditto Christianity. It's something I call "fundamentalism
implies collapse".

Whereas many people I know are very discouraged by the
Bush era, I see imminent collapse. Christianity in
the '1st world' is dying. The innoncence of colonialism
was forever destroyed in America, by contact with the
very cultures that were colonized. First with the Civil
war, and then in the 1960s. We are witnessing, in my
view, the death throws of Christendom.

And Islam is sufferring from fundamentalism at least as
severe. The fundamentalists can justify killing their
fellow Muslims because in their view, the moderates have
been corrupted by capitalist atheism and are no longer
true Muslims at all. But, "A house divided against itself
cannot stand."

Judaism has its share of fundamentalism, but seems to be
fairing better.

And apparently only a small minority of agnostics are
atheists.

Therefore I conclude that agnosticism is least likely to
collapse.

Just a guess.

-Carl

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
> I wrote:
> > > On the world scale, though, what's happening is
> > > Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
> > > It's NOT atheism vs. Islam.
> >
> > It is true that insofar as religions (and cultures) are a
> > kind of software that dictate how humans live, they tend
> > to be competetive where strongly differentiated. As good
> > a reason for fighting as a difference in genes (race).
> > Surely, the only two causes in the history of war.
> >
> > It has been said (even by myself in a past life) that all
> > war is economic in nature. But this isn't correct.
> > Those who share a common race/culture tend to share
> > resources; those who don't, don't. So all war does aim
> > to for profit (in the long term), but the existence of
> > resources does not explain contention over them.
>
> I meant to add:
>
> However, in this particular case, Chris, I disagree.
> While our invasion of Iraq is a Christendom vs. Islam
> thing, the greatest threat to Islam is from within.
> Ditto Christianity. It's something I call "fundamentalism
> implies collapse".

I agree, maybe. I'm not sure though. I think we have to watch it play out.

> Whereas many people I know are very discouraged by the
> Bush era, I see imminent collapse. Christianity in
> the '1st world' is dying. The innoncence of colonialism
> was forever destroyed in America, by contact with the
> very cultures that were colonized. First with the Civil
> war, and then in the 1960s. We are witnessing, in my
> view, the death throws of Christendom.

And yet the fastest growing religion in America is Mormonism.

> And Islam is sufferring from fundamentalism at least as
> severe. The fundamentalists can justify killing their
> fellow Muslims because in their view, the moderates have
> been corrupted by capitalist atheism and are no longer
> true Muslims at all. But, "A house divided against itself
> cannot stand."

can you give a clear-cut example of what you mean by moderate Islam being
'corrupted' by 'capitalist atheism'? Since most capitalists are not atheists,
because atheists are a vast minority by all polls, are you contending that
only the atheists are responsible for whatever you mean by 'corruption' in
this sense?

> Judaism has its share of fundamentalism, but seems to be
> fairing better.
>
> And apparently only a small minority of agnostics are
> atheists.
>
> Therefore I conclude that agnosticism is least likely to
> collapse.
>
> Just a guess.

I don't follow your argument here. aren't there other choices--buddhism for
example?

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@...>

> > Whereas many people I know are very discouraged by the
> > Bush era, I see imminent collapse. Christianity in
> > the '1st world' is dying. The innoncence of colonialism
> > was forever destroyed in America, by contact with the
> > very cultures that were colonized. First with the Civil
> > war, and then in the 1960s. We are witnessing, in my
> > view, the death throws of Christendom.
>
> And yet the fastest growing religion in America is Mormonism.

Mormons are Christians, perhaps, but they're not part of
Christendom in the historical sense.

> > And Islam is sufferring from fundamentalism at least as
> > severe. The fundamentalists can justify killing their
> > fellow Muslims because in their view, the moderates have
> > been corrupted by capitalist atheism and are no longer
> > true Muslims at all. But, "A house divided against itself
> > cannot stand."
>
> can you give a clear-cut example of what you mean by moderate
> Islam being 'corrupted' by 'capitalist atheism'? Since most
> capitalists are not atheists, because atheists are a vast
> minority by all polls, are you contending that only the
> atheists are responsible for whatever you mean by 'corruption'
> in this sense?

Uh, I said, "in their view". Have you seen The Power of
Nightmares?

-Carl

🔗ambassadorbob <peteysan@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining power.
Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down under a mutually understood stance

ambassadorbob wrote:

>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>> >>
>>>I wrote:
>>> >>>
>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>>>>> >>>>>
>
>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it) >is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and >simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and >distractions that power usurpers require.
>
>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't >need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>
>P
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

Hey Kraig-

I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who wrote "The
Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core" - N
America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
"non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
america, southeast asia.

The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information, people
and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap" is where all the
wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to get the gap
areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty conservative and
militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly taken seriously in the pentagon.

ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
thought was at the root of the difference between the two groupings and he
said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of their
women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and backwater
countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction of free
women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms. Pretty
interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of women's lib,
but it makes alot of sense.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
>Behalf Of Kraig Grady
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
>To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
>you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
>ck on metatuning
>
>
>i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
>conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining power.
> Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down under a
>mutually understood stance
>
>ambassadorbob wrote:
>
>>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
>>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
>>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
>>distractions that power usurpers require.
>>
>>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
>>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>>
>>P
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>
>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>
>>To post to the list, send to
>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Kraig Grady
>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>The Wandering Medicine Show
>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
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>
>You don't have to be a member to post.
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>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

i believe that if given the chance the far right in this country would do the same thing with their "Eve" complex, which is a thinly veiled historical reference to tree worship and it suppression. Let us remember it hasn't been that long since they could even vote and imagine many of them have the repeal of this in their sights. of course according to Scalia, no one has the 'right' to vote according to his interpetation of the constitution, (being a granted privilage).

Perhaps timothy leary will be recognized as a prophet when we have 5 and 6 year olds storming the supreme court with machine guns.
something which BTW he foresaw
Dante Rosati wrote:

>Hey Kraig-
>
>I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who wrote "The
>Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core" - N
>America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
>"non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
>america, southeast asia.
>
>The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information, people
>and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap" is where all the
>wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to get the gap
>areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty conservative and
>militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly taken seriously in the pentagon.
>
>ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
>thought was at the root of the difference between the two groupings and he
>said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of their
>women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and backwater
>countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction of free
>women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms. Pretty
>interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of women's lib,
>but it makes alot of sense.
>
> >
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
>>Behalf Of Kraig Grady
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
>>To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
>>you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
>>ck on metatuning
>>
>>
>>i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
>>conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining power.
>>Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down under a
>>mutually understood stance
>>
>>ambassadorbob wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>>I wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>>>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
>>>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
>>>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
>>>distractions that power usurpers require.
>>>
>>>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
>>>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>>>
>>>P
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>>
>>>To post to the list, send to
>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>--
>>Kraig Grady
>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>>
>>
>>
>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>
>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>
>>To post to the list, send to
>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
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> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗ambassadorbob <peteysan@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me one bit, but I wonder what else is going on,
because of how effective it seems to be.

I couldn't believe that American women weren't torching the place
over the Roberts nomination.

>
> i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of
this
> conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining
power.
> Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down
under a
> mutually understood stance
>
> ambassadorbob wrote:
>
> >>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
> >>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> >My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism
into it)
> >is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
> >simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations
and
> >distractions that power usurpers require.
> >
> >To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
> >need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
> >
> >P
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> >To post to the list, send to
> >metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

i am still not sure about roberts, but i often can be hopelessly optimistic

ambassadorbob wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> >wrote:
>
>It wouldn't surprise me one bit, but I wonder what else is going on, >because of how effective it seems to be.
>
>I couldn't believe that American women weren't torching the place >over the Roberts nomination.
>
> >
>>i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of >> >>
>this > >
>>conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining >> >>
>power.
> >
>> Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down >> >>
>under a > >
>>mutually understood stance
>>
>>ambassadorbob wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>>I wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>>>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism >>> >>>
>into it) > >
>>>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and >>>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations >>> >>>
>and > >
>>>distractions that power usurpers require.
>>>
>>>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't >>>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>>>
>>>P
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>>
>>>To post to the list, send to
>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>-- >>Kraig Grady
>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>>
>> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗ambassadorbob <peteysan@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

I read the book....it's really great and I think he's onto something.

The book is a bit repetitive, but the central idea, summed up as 'connetivity
is power', is a powerful one, as well as jiving with intuition.

He came up with his central idea by putting push pins into a map of the world
where all the violence and poverty was, and asking himself: What unites all
these places? The answer was a lack of free flow of money, ideas,
information, and a prevalance of religious fundamentalism.

I think he has a website, too, where you can read about it.

-Aaron.

On Tuesday 01 November 2005 1:55 pm, Dante Rosati wrote:
> Hey Kraig-
>
> I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who wrote "The
> Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core" - N
> America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
> "non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
> america, southeast asia.
>
> The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information,
> people and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap" is where all
> the wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to get
> the gap areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty
> conservative and militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly taken seriously
> in the pentagon.
>
> ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
> thought was at the root of the difference between the two groupings and he
> said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of their
> women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and backwater
> countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction of free
> women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms. Pretty
> interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of women's
> lib, but it makes alot of sense.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
> >Behalf Of Kraig Grady
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
> >To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
> >you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
> >ck on metatuning
> >
> >
> >i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
> >conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining power.
> > Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down under a
> >mutually understood stance
> >
> >ambassadorbob wrote:
> >>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
> >>>>I wrote:
> >>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
> >>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
> >>
> >>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
> >>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
> >>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
> >>distractions that power usurpers require.
> >>
> >>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
> >>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
> >>
> >>P
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >>
> >>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >>
> >>To post to the list, send to
> >>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>You don't have to be a member to post.
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >--
> >Kraig Grady
> >North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> >The Wandering Medicine Show
> >KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> >
> >
> >
> >Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> >To post to the list, send to
> >metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
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>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

Another interesting point he had was that when immigrants come here they
send way more money back to their countries then foreign aid ever could, so
we should let as many people come here to work as want to as a way of
raising the standard of living in the poorer countries. There is a fairly
simple correlation between per capita income and violence: if people make at
least a few thousand a year with opportunites to make even more they are
less interesting in blowing things up & killing each other, and more
interested in stability.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
>Behalf Of Aaron Krister Johnson
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:52 PM
>To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [metatuning] The Pentagon's New Map
>
>
>
>I read the book....it's really great and I think he's onto something.
>
>The book is a bit repetitive, but the central idea, summed up as
>'connetivity
>is power', is a powerful one, as well as jiving with intuition.
>
>He came up with his central idea by putting push pins into a map
>of the world
>where all the violence and poverty was, and asking himself: What
>unites all
>these places? The answer was a lack of free flow of money, ideas,
>information, and a prevalance of religious fundamentalism.
>
>I think he has a website, too, where you can read about it.
>
>
>-Aaron.
>
>
>On Tuesday 01 November 2005 1:55 pm, Dante Rosati wrote:
>> Hey Kraig-
>>
>> I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who
>wrote "The
>> Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core" - N
>> America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
>> "non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
>> america, southeast asia.
>>
>> The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information,
>> people and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap"
>is where all
>> the wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to get
>> the gap areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty
>> conservative and militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly
>taken seriously
>> in the pentagon.
>>
>> ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
>> thought was at the root of the difference between the two
>groupings and he
>> said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of their
>> women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and backwater
>> countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction of free
>> women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms. Pretty
>> interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of women's
>> lib, but it makes alot of sense.
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
>> >Behalf Of Kraig Grady
>> >Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
>> >To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>> >Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
>> >you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
>> >ck on metatuning
>> >
>> >
>> >i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
>> >conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from
>gaining power.
>> > Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down under a
>> >mutually understood stance
>> >
>> >ambassadorbob wrote:
>> >>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>> >>>>I wrote:
>> >>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>> >>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>> >>
>> >>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
>> >>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
>> >>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
>> >>distractions that power usurpers require.
>> >>
>> >>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
>> >>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>> >>
>> >>P
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>> >>
>> >>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>> >>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >>
>> >>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>> >>
>> >>To post to the list, send to
>> >>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>> >>
>> >>You don't have to be a member to post.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >--
>> >Kraig Grady
>> >North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>> >The Wandering Medicine Show
>> >KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Meta Tuning meta-info:
>> >
>> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>> >metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>> >
>> >To post to the list, send to
>> >metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >You don't have to be a member to post.
>> >
>> >
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>
>> To post to the list, send to
>> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> You don't have to be a member to post.
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
>To post to the list, send to
>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
>You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

i would say that these wars happen because of the intrusion of the so-called powers to be fighting over control of it.
I mean where do the weapons and money to fight these wars come from, from the outside.
Also what about WW2 ? these areas were relatively peaceful at this time , mainly because no one had time to mess with them.
is there more crime in tehran or detroit?

Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:

>I read the book....it's really great and I think he's onto something.
>
>The book is a bit repetitive, but the central idea, summed up as 'connetivity >is power', is a powerful one, as well as jiving with intuition.
>
>He came up with his central idea by putting push pins into a map of the world >where all the violence and poverty was, and asking himself: What unites all >these places? The answer was a lack of free flow of money, ideas, >information, and a prevalance of religious fundamentalism. >
>I think he has a website, too, where you can read about it.
>
>
>-Aaron.
>
>
>On Tuesday 01 November 2005 1:55 pm, Dante Rosati wrote:
> >
>>Hey Kraig-
>>
>>I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who wrote "The
>>Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core" - N
>>America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
>>"non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
>>america, southeast asia.
>>
>>The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information,
>>people and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap" is where all
>>the wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to get
>>the gap areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty
>>conservative and militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly taken seriously
>>in the pentagon.
>>
>>ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
>>thought was at the root of the difference between the two groupings and he
>>said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of their
>>women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and backwater
>>countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction of free
>>women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms. Pretty
>>interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of women's
>>lib, but it makes alot of sense.
>>
>> >>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
>>>Behalf Of Kraig Grady
>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
>>>To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
>>>you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
>>>ck on metatuning
>>>
>>>
>>>i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
>>>conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining power.
>>>Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down under a
>>>mutually understood stance
>>>
>>>ambassadorbob wrote:
>>> >>>
>>>>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>I wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>>>>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
>>>>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
>>>>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
>>>>distractions that power usurpers require.
>>>>
>>>>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
>>>>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>>>>
>>>>P
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>>
>>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>>
>>>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>>>
>>>>To post to the list, send to
>>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>>
>>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>> >>>>
>>>--
>>>Kraig Grady
>>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>>
>>>To post to the list, send to
>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>> >>>
>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>
>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>
>>To post to the list, send to
>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>> >>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
>To post to the list, send to
>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
>You don't have to be a member to post.
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

On Tuesday 01 November 2005 3:17 pm, Kraig Grady wrote:
> i would say that these wars happen because of the intrusion of the
> so-called powers to be fighting over control of it.
> I mean where do the weapons and money to fight these wars come from,
> from the outside.
> Also what about WW2 ? these areas were relatively peaceful at this time
> , mainly because no one had time to mess with them.
> is there more crime in tehran or detroit?

well, maybe it's fractal: the U.S. has it's oltra-poor ultra-violent pockets
like Detroit.

The flipside of the Tehran question is that when you have ultra-orthodox
Islam, you have people getting their hands cut off for stealing a pack of
gum.

> Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> >I read the book....it's really great and I think he's onto something.
> >
> >The book is a bit repetitive, but the central idea, summed up as
> > 'connetivity is power', is a powerful one, as well as jiving with
> > intuition.
> >
> >He came up with his central idea by putting push pins into a map of the
> > world where all the violence and poverty was, and asking himself: What
> > unites all these places? The answer was a lack of free flow of money,
> > ideas, information, and a prevalance of religious fundamentalism.
> >
> >I think he has a website, too, where you can read about it.
> >
> >
> >-Aaron.
> >
> >On Tuesday 01 November 2005 1:55 pm, Dante Rosati wrote:
> >>Hey Kraig-
> >>
> >>I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who wrote
> >> "The Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core"
> >> - N America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
> >> "non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
> >> america, southeast asia.
> >>
> >>The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information,
> >>people and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap" is where
> >> all the wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to
> >> get the gap areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty
> >> conservative and militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly taken
> >> seriously in the pentagon.
> >>
> >>ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
> >>thought was at the root of the difference between the two groupings and
> >> he said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of
> >> their women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and
> >> backwater countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction
> >> of free women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms.
> >> Pretty interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of
> >> women's lib, but it makes alot of sense.
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
> >>>Behalf Of Kraig Grady
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
> >>>To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >>>Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
> >>>you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
> >>>ck on metatuning
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
> >>>conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining
> >>> power. Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down
> >>> under a mutually understood stance
> >>>
> >>>ambassadorbob wrote:
> >>>>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
> >>>>>>I wrote:
> >>>>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
> >>>>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
> >>>>
> >>>>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
> >>>>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
> >>>>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
> >>>>distractions that power usurpers require.
> >>>>
> >>>>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
> >>>>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
> >>>>
> >>>>P
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >>>>
> >>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>
> >>>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >>>>
> >>>>To post to the list, send to
> >>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>
> >>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Kraig Grady
> >>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> >>>The Wandering Medicine Show
> >>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >>>
> >>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>>
> >>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >>>
> >>>To post to the list, send to
> >>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >>>
> >>>You don't have to be a member to post.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >>
> >>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >>
> >>To post to the list, send to
> >>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>You don't have to be a member to post.
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> >To post to the list, send to
> >metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

agreed . but nothin like dem texas bar-be-cutions!!!!
yeehaw~!!!!!

Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:

>On Tuesday 01 November 2005 3:17 pm, Kraig Grady wrote:
> >
>>i would say that these wars happen because of the intrusion of the
>>so-called powers to be fighting over control of it.
>> I mean where do the weapons and money to fight these wars come from,
>>from the outside.
>>Also what about WW2 ? these areas were relatively peaceful at this time
>>, mainly because no one had time to mess with them.
>>is there more crime in tehran or detroit?
>> >>
>
>well, maybe it's fractal: the U.S. has it's oltra-poor ultra-violent pockets >like Detroit.
>
>The flipside of the Tehran question is that when you have ultra-orthodox >Islam, you have people getting their hands cut off for stealing a pack of >gum.
>
>
> >
>>Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>> >>
>>>I read the book....it's really great and I think he's onto something.
>>>
>>>The book is a bit repetitive, but the central idea, summed up as
>>>'connetivity is power', is a powerful one, as well as jiving with
>>>intuition.
>>>
>>>He came up with his central idea by putting push pins into a map of the
>>>world where all the violence and poverty was, and asking himself: What
>>>unites all these places? The answer was a lack of free flow of money,
>>>ideas, information, and a prevalance of religious fundamentalism.
>>>
>>>I think he has a website, too, where you can read about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>-Aaron.
>>>
>>>On Tuesday 01 November 2005 1:55 pm, Dante Rosati wrote:
>>> >>>
>>>>Hey Kraig-
>>>>
>>>>I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who wrote
>>>>"The Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core"
>>>>- N America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
>>>>"non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
>>>>america, southeast asia.
>>>>
>>>>The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information,
>>>>people and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap" is where
>>>>all the wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to
>>>>get the gap areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty
>>>>conservative and militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly taken
>>>>seriously in the pentagon.
>>>>
>>>>ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
>>>>thought was at the root of the difference between the two groupings and
>>>>he said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of
>>>>their women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and
>>>>backwater countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction
>>>>of free women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms.
>>>>Pretty interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of
>>>>women's lib, but it makes alot of sense.
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
>>>>>Behalf Of Kraig Grady
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
>>>>>To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
>>>>>you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
>>>>>ck on metatuning
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
>>>>>conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining
>>>>>power. Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down
>>>>>under a mutually understood stance
>>>>>
>>>>>ambassadorbob wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>>>>>>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
>>>>>>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
>>>>>>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
>>>>>>distractions that power usurpers require.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
>>>>>>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>P
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To post to the list, send to
>>>>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Kraig Grady
>>>>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>>>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>>>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>>>
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>
>>>>>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>>>>>
>>>>>To post to the list, send to
>>>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>
>>>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>> >>>>>
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>
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>Meta Tuning meta-info:
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

actually , from my understanding is that the shi'ites are quite far from the orthodox Islamic. comparable to the gnostics sects of christianity.
This brand of islam strongly influenced by madean philosophy.
Ozan is free to correct me if i m wrong.
Actually i am quite interested in knowing more about the different branches of this religion

Kraig Grady wrote:

>agreed . but nothin like dem texas bar-be-cutions!!!!
>yeehaw~!!!!!
>
>Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>
> >
>>On Tuesday 01 November 2005 3:17 pm, Kraig Grady wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>>>i would say that these wars happen because of the intrusion of the
>>>so-called powers to be fighting over control of it.
>>>I mean where do the weapons and money to fight these wars come from,
>>> >>>
>>>from the outside.
>> >>
>>>Also what about WW2 ? these areas were relatively peaceful at this time
>>>, mainly because no one had time to mess with them.
>>>is there more crime in tehran or detroit?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>well, maybe it's fractal: the U.S. has it's oltra-poor ultra-violent pockets >>like Detroit.
>>
>>The flipside of the Tehran question is that when you have ultra-orthodox >>Islam, you have people getting their hands cut off for stealing a pack of >>gum.
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>>Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>I read the book....it's really great and I think he's onto something.
>>>>
>>>>The book is a bit repetitive, but the central idea, summed up as
>>>>'connetivity is power', is a powerful one, as well as jiving with
>>>>intuition.
>>>>
>>>>He came up with his central idea by putting push pins into a map of the
>>>>world where all the violence and poverty was, and asking himself: What
>>>>unites all these places? The answer was a lack of free flow of money,
>>>>ideas, information, and a prevalance of religious fundamentalism.
>>>>
>>>>I think he has a website, too, where you can read about it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-Aaron.
>>>>
>>>>On Tuesday 01 November 2005 1:55 pm, Dante Rosati wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>>Hey Kraig-
>>>>>
>>>>>I saw a presentation on CSPAN by this thinktank guy Barnett who wrote
>>>>>"The Pentagon's New Map" dividing the world into the "functioning core"
>>>>>- N America, Europe, most of Asia and India, some of S America, and the
>>>>>"non-integrating gap" - all of middle east and africa, central and south
>>>>>america, southeast asia.
>>>>>
>>>>>The idea being the "functioning core" has a free flow of information,
>>>>>people and money, and less violence. The "non integrating gap" is where
>>>>>all the wars happen, poverty, disease genocide, etc. So its about how to
>>>>>get the gap areas integrated. Unfortunately the guy is basically pretty
>>>>>conservative and militaristic, but his ideas are apparantly taken
>>>>>seriously in the pentagon.
>>>>>
>>>>>ANYWAY- after the presentation, someone in the audience asked him what he
>>>>>thought was at the root of the difference between the two groupings and
>>>>>he said that in the gap countries, the men's fear of losing control of
>>>>>their women was the single unifying factor. In all those islamic and
>>>>>backwater countries, they are terrified of western TV with its depiction
>>>>>of free women, terrified of their own women wanting the same freedoms.
>>>>>Pretty interesting idea that the root of hatred of the west is fear of
>>>>>women's lib, but it makes alot of sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: metatuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:metatuning@yahoogroups.com]On
>>>>>>Behalf Of Kraig Grady
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:36 PM
>>>>>>To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [metatuning] Re: back to
>>>>>>you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-ba
>>>>>>ck on metatuning
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i have actually thought that the true psychological purpose of this
>>>>>>conflict is to prevent the females in these societies from gaining
>>>>>>power. Such conflict makes it easy for both sides to keep them down
>>>>>>under a mutually understood stance
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ambassadorbob wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Monday 31 October 2005 2:50 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On the world scale, though, what's happening is
>>>>>>>>>>>Christionaity (or Judeo-Christianity) vs. Islam.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My problem with this (besides reading a bit of apocalypticism into it)
>>>>>>>is that it seems like a yet another vast oversimplification, and
>>>>>>>simply facilitates and perpetuates the ideological manipulations and
>>>>>>>distractions that power usurpers require.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>To recite the real anarchist 'chapter and verse', we don't
>>>>>>>need "empowerment", we need disempowerment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>>>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You don't have to be a member to post.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Kraig Grady
>>>>>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>>>>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>>>>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>>>>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>>>>
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>>
>>Meta Tuning meta-info:
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>> >>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗monz <monz@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

If one is looking for an Anti-Christ, one needs look no further than Paulus.

----- Original Message -----
From: monz
To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 02 Kas�m 2005 �ar�amba 13:38
Subject: [metatuning] Re: back to you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalis

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
>
> > > Whereas many people I know are very discouraged by the
> > > Bush era, I see imminent collapse. Christianity in
> > > the '1st world' is dying. The innoncence of colonialism
> > > was forever destroyed in America, by contact with the
> > > very cultures that were colonized. First with the Civil
> > > war, and then in the 1960s. We are witnessing, in my
> > > view, the death throws of Christendom.
> >
> > And yet the fastest growing religion in America is Mormonism.
>
> Mormons are Christians, perhaps, but they're not part of
> Christendom in the historical sense.

It probably should also be pointed out that the beliefs and
teachings of most historical forms of "Christianity" have a
lot more to do with Paul (who wrote so many letters) than
with Jesus Christ.

-monz

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

On Tuesday 01 November 2005 9:26 pm, Ozan Yarman wrote:
> Fox News Fib Alert: Bubblegum sales are forbidden in Tehran.

Even better at illustrating my point....

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Aaron Krister Johnson
> To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 02 Kasým 2005 Çarþamba 4:32
> Subject: Re: [metatuning] The Pentagon's New Map
>
> On Tuesday 01 November 2005 3:17 pm, Kraig Grady wrote:
> > i would say that these wars happen because of the intrusion of the
> > so-called powers to be fighting over control of it.
> > I mean where do the weapons and money to fight these wars come from,
> > from the outside.
> > Also what about WW2 ? these areas were relatively peaceful at this time
> > , mainly because no one had time to mess with them.
> > is there more crime in tehran or detroit?
>
> well, maybe it's fractal: the U.S. has it's oltra-poor ultra-violent
> pockets like Detroit.
>
> The flipside of the Tehran question is that when you have ultra-orthodox
> Islam, you have people getting their hands cut off for stealing a pack of
> gum.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
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>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

back to you-scratch-my-libertarian-back-I'll-scratch-your-anarcho-syndicalist-back on metatuning

🔗Christopher Bailey <chris@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@...>

🔗ambassadorbob <peteysan@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗ambassadorbob <peteysan@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗ambassadorbob <peteysan@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗monz <monz@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>