I am not allowed to pursue political and religious discussion with disbelievers

You must be out of your mind Aaron. I shall not enter into any debate with you on politics, religion or social norms, even when you keep on abusing my private rights on this matter and insult me unjustly by calling me a hypocrite, unless one day, by Allah's grace, you should decide to be a true brother to me in Islam.

As for your perception regarding my supposed assault on your secularist values, that is a malicious slander. I never attempted to silence or censor you, nor did I engage in proselytism. I repeat, I merely reminded you that I would not pursue any debates in the aforementioned direction with self-proclaimed disbelievers, particularly in a public forum, as it is a fundamental tenet of my faith. I neither expect you to understand nor respect it actually. My reaction was a rebuke, not a cue for you to dive into soppy conversation with me, as you should have well realized.

In the end, you have only won my contempt with your sophistry and molestation of my personal request. If you are offended by my Islamic flair and rhetoric while I tolerate your anti-religious parapharnalia and outright insolence and infidelity, then do not participate in a group which ought to show tolerance to different world views, and stop acting as if you and your followers own the place. Who appointed you an arbiter over us anyhow? That is truly an impertinent conduct more deserving of the accusation: `self-righteous hypocrite!`

Cordially,
Ozan

P.S. Nothing is preventing you from e-mailing me directly and my responding you in any topic save those I refuse to discuss. In fact, I respect your freedom to say anything at all, at your own peril.

----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Krister Johnson
To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 29 Ekim 2005 Cumartesi 22:34
Subject: Re: [metatuning] Ozan's political dscussion from tuning, continued here

On Saturday 29 October 2005 1:42 pm, Ozan Yarman wrote:
> Let's put things in perspective Aaron:
>
> 1. I didn't start the conversation, I responded to a comment by Kraig
> involving Ernest McClain's `Meditations on the Quran`, where I showed that
> his words were carelessly chosen and open to misinterpretation.

It seems your self-righteousness has made you a historical revisionist.

you engaged me in conversation implicitely by responding thus:

>>
> You apparently have been misinformed by Fox News and brainwashed by
> supremacist USA propaganda (the greatest country in the world!).
>>

so now we know that your attitude is simply to be a total self-righteous
hypocrite, and drop little snide and rude remarks and insults, and when fire
returns your way, you run for cover and play the 'I'm an oppressed muslim'
card. Please, spare us the act.

> 2. In return, you assaulted the tenets of my belief, trying to argue that
> the Quran could not protected by Allah Teala, Lord of the Worlds, thus
> attempting to molest my faith in Him.

As a 'secularist' myself, how many times have you assaulted secularist views?
I've lost count. And how mny times must we hear about the 'grace of Allah'
etc. etc. But whatever, I defend your right to your beliefs, and share them
publicly. But watch your step when you try to deny my very same rights in the
next breath.

You should realize, my dear Ozan, that you are in a public forum of world
citizens, many of whom are not muslim, or even religious. if you can't handle
that, don't participate.

if you feel free to assault non-belief, secularism, etc. then you should feel
free for me to respond with what I think.

and if you feel free to write phrases like 'Praised be Allah the almighty',
without fear of people saying you should shut up already with that stuff,
(and no one would, because civility is an agreed upon, although somtimes
forgotten value here) then I should feel free to say what I believe, and
expect the same.

I'm offended by all you pro-Islamic rhetoric, but I grant you the freedom to
say it....for the reason I state and defend above. Too bad you wish to censor
me. Are you offended? Sorry, tough luck. This is not a mosque, it's a mailing
list.

> 3. I rebuked you, upon which you went into a rave about politics and social
> norms, contrary to my personal request for the umpteenth time.

I don't email you privately. That was your request. I honored that. In a
public space, I can say what I want against your politics or religion. We are
not in Afganistan, my dear brother.

> 4. Brother Mohajeri felt the need to clear his name as a muslim against
> that onslaught.

huh?

> 5. I felt the need to state my position as a muslim likewise.

and I felt the need to state my position as an atheist. So what? Here we are.

> 6. Monz requested urgently that we move unto metatuning, upon which I
> complied.

yes. here we are.

> 7. David Beardsley has given the link which I took as a gesture of open
> invitation.

yes.

> 8. You retorted immediately after I joined, claiming I had a moment of
> weakness, which I did not.

whatever you call it, you engaged me in a political discussion. The evidence
is clear.

> 9. Yes, you are allowed to disrespect my requests, to the detriment of my
> natural stance.

I didn't disrespect you request. I don't engage you in private political
conversations, or even public ones for that matter, unless you respond to my
comments, which are general to all on the mailing lists. If I wanted to
direct them at you, I would write privately, which you reuested I not, so...

I feel the need to point out your utter hypocrisy--that you can snipe at my
politics and religious non-belief publicly, but you get to 'bomb and run'.

Utter self-righteous hypocrite!

> 10. No, I did not attempt to silence you, I merely stated the fact that I
> will not argue politics and religion with any self-proclaimed disbeliever.

And you can do that. And I can do what I want, too.

> 11. It is you who should be ashamed for that slander as well as the
> condescending impudence you have displayed in the tuning list and here

you might as well say that to a mirror, Ozan.

-Aaron.

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