Re: [tuning] The Holy Quran and 12-ET

Must we denegrate 12-equal so much to call it fascism? Yes, we all love the
alternatives, but c'mon.

Do any of us listen to and like, say, Prokofieff and Stravinsky? or Bartok?
or the Beatles? or John Coltrane?

remember, if anything becomes too popular (let's say Just Intonation or some
alternate tuning becomes a popular standard) it too would be potentially
labelled 'fascist'.

as for the 'un-usurpability' of the Quran by fascists: the daily death and
destruction in the news tells us otherwise.

maybe the replies to this should go over to metatuning? for that purpose, I've
cross posted. Please reply there.

-aaron.

On Friday 28 October 2005 1:46 pm, Ozan Yarman wrote:
> Why Kraig? Is it due to your hilarious assumption that the Holy Quran
> cannot be prevented by Allah's grace from being usurped in aid of 12-ET
> fascism we all so dread?
>
> The nationalists here have attempted a similar scheme, but the revelation
> itself condemned and ridiculed them to dwindling tatters. Praises be to
> Lord Almighty for that!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kraig Grady
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 28 Ekim 2005 Cuma 21:15
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Any idea about this title?
>
>
> McClain seems to not be so interested in the sound as much as upholding
> some vision of Plato. Which should be suspect on both accounts. His
> conclusions seem to lead to the 12ET and fascism in that the individual
> must be surpressed in the interest of the over all state.
>
>
> the idea of him looking at the Quran , i find frightening, but i am
> always welcomed to be surprised

i suggest you read McCLain and Plato use of 12 ET on the subject.
they started it, not I

Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:

>Must we denegrate 12-equal so much to call it fascism? Yes, we all love the >alternatives, but c'mon.
>
>Do any of us listen to and like, say, Prokofieff and Stravinsky? or Bartok?
>or the Beatles? or John Coltrane?
>
>remember, if anything becomes too popular (let's say Just Intonation or some >alternate tuning becomes a popular standard) it too would be potentially >labelled 'fascist'.
>
>as for the 'un-usurpability' of the Quran by fascists: the daily death and >destruction in the news tells us otherwise. >
>maybe the replies to this should go over to metatuning? for that purpose, I've >cross posted. Please reply there.
>
>-aaron.
>
>On Friday 28 October 2005 1:46 pm, Ozan Yarman wrote:
> >
>>Why Kraig? Is it due to your hilarious assumption that the Holy Quran
>>cannot be prevented by Allah's grace from being usurped in aid of 12-ET
>>fascism we all so dread?
>>
>>The nationalists here have attempted a similar scheme, but the revelation
>>itself condemned and ridiculed them to dwindling tatters. Praises be to
>>Lord Almighty for that!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kraig Grady
>> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: 28 Ekim 2005 Cuma 21:15
>> Subject: [tuning] Re: Any idea about this title?
>>
>>
>> McClain seems to not be so interested in the sound as much as upholding
>>some vision of Plato. Which should be suspect on both accounts. His
>>conclusions seem to lead to the 12ET and fascism in that the individual
>>must be surpressed in the interest of the over all state.
>>
>>
>> the idea of him looking at the Quran , i find frightening, but i am
>>always welcomed to be surprised
>> >>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
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>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
>To post to the list, send to
>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
>You don't have to be a member to post.
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> i suggest you read McCLain and Plato use of 12 ET on the subject.
> they started it, not I

I don't know McClain very well, too much rethink for me, I guess, with
too little reward (unlike some things!), but I don't get the connection
with ET (12, or other :-). All due apologies for lack of due diligence.
>
> Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>
> >Must we denegrate 12-equal so much to call it fascism? Yes, we all
love the
> >alternatives, but c'mon.

I don't think it's necessarily denigrating 12-ET to call it fascism,
but I question the accuracy of the assertion. Authoritarian, and
possibly totalitarian, sure, but I think Fascism only really applies
where the dark drums of war and conquest (!) are beating (oops! they
are, huh?!), and where the individual is truly NOT included in the
political philosophy at all.

Plato (and Aristotle?) are all about something like 'common sense' and
rationality, aren't they? As if anyone who really thinks about it
would come to the same conclusion? And libertarianism and classical
liberalism assume the same sort of "integrity" of everyone's capacity
to do what's right, as a sort of extension of those guys, no?

The general cultural fascism of globalization is more like the
steamroller effect of movies and TV and like consumer media. No? And
the fact is that a lot of movie and television and big-budget
advertising music is WAY more interesting than the "pop charts". But I
don't wanna talk about Bollywood, or any of that stuff. Too scary. :-
) Shucks, maybe I do... :-)

On the other hand, defending 12-ET against the onslaughts of (eg) JI
fascists is kinda like defending muscle cars and SUV's against the
onslaught of mass transit and people who would outlaw cars in the
United States of America. Pretty silly, I think.

Being anti-12-equal is kind of an inevitable part of the process of
discovering what a "real" tuning sounds like, isn't it?

Pete

the reason for Plato execution was his anti democratic preaching.
most later philosophers have more trouble with Plato than have anything to say good outside that he started philosophy.
i once again strongly recommend Poppers the open society and it enemies, which the first volume is on Plato alone showing exactly what it was he was preaching. Later volume show how plato infected the rest of the philosophers after him especially hegel.

McClain is like NPR in that if you say words like bosnia and palestine, people assume they are liberal.
McClain mentions all these other systems , but in the end the solution to the problem is 12ET all other systems being defective s illustrated by Plato. and plato reasoning is based on his what he sees the role of the individual in the state is. the state first and BTW he happens to be the appropriate one to be in charge of the state. The Neo con are exactly following Plato, and this is quite deliberate as like McClain, take Plato as the untimate authority. one that cannot be questioned

Interesting enough the aspects of Plato that manifest to the east of greece are quite different. these being a metaphysical interpetation of what exactly is implied by the archetypal world.
ambassadorbob wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> >
>>i suggest you read McCLain and Plato use of 12 ET on the subject.
>> they started it, not I
>> >>
>
>I don't know McClain very well, too much rethink for me, I guess, with >too little reward (unlike some things!), but I don't get the connection >with ET (12, or other :-). All due apologies for lack of due diligence.
> >
>>Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>Must we denegrate 12-equal so much to call it fascism? Yes, we all >>> >>>
>love the > >
>>>alternatives, but c'mon.
>>> >>>
>
>I don't think it's necessarily denigrating 12-ET to call it fascism, >but I question the accuracy of the assertion. Authoritarian, and >possibly totalitarian, sure, but I think Fascism only really applies >where the dark drums of war and conquest (!) are beating (oops! they >are, huh?!), and where the individual is truly NOT included in the >political philosophy at all. >
>Plato (and Aristotle?) are all about something like 'common sense' and >rationality, aren't they? As if anyone who really thinks about it >would come to the same conclusion? And libertarianism and classical >liberalism assume the same sort of "integrity" of everyone's capacity >to do what's right, as a sort of extension of those guys, no? >
>The general cultural fascism of globalization is more like the >steamroller effect of movies and TV and like consumer media. No? And >the fact is that a lot of movie and television and big-budget >advertising music is WAY more interesting than the "pop charts". But I >don't wanna talk about Bollywood, or any of that stuff. Too scary. :-
>) Shucks, maybe I do... :-) >
>On the other hand, defending 12-ET against the onslaughts of (eg) JI >fascists is kinda like defending muscle cars and SUV's against the >onslaught of mass transit and people who would outlaw cars in the >United States of America. Pretty silly, I think.
>
>Being anti-12-equal is kind of an inevitable part of the process of >discovering what a "real" tuning sounds like, isn't it?
>
>Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
>To post to the list, send to
>metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
>You don't have to be a member to post.
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:

I've read _some_ of the Popper, and I think it's great! I just
haven't read enough, I guess...

And I think your point about interpretations "to the east of.."
should be well noted.

Thanks!

>
> the reason for Plato execution was his anti democratic preaching.
> most later philosophers have more trouble with Plato than have
anything
> to say good outside that he started philosophy.
> i once again strongly recommend Poppers the open society and it
> enemies, which the first volume is on Plato alone showing exactly
what
> it was he was preaching. Later volume show how plato infected the
rest
> of the philosophers after him especially hegel.
>
> McClain is like NPR in that if you say words like bosnia and
palestine,
> people assume they are liberal.
> McClain mentions all these other systems , but in the end the
solution
> to the problem is 12ET all other systems being defective s
illustrated
> by Plato. and plato reasoning is based on his what he sees the role
of
> the individual in the state is. the state first and BTW he happens
to be
> the appropriate one to be in charge of the state. The Neo con are
> exactly following Plato, and this is quite deliberate as like
McClain,
> take Plato as the untimate authority. one that cannot be questioned
>
> Interesting enough the aspects of Plato that manifest to the
east of
> greece are quite different. these being a metaphysical
interpetation of
> what exactly is implied by the archetypal world.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ambassadorbob wrote:
>
> >--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >>i suggest you read McCLain and Plato use of 12 ET on the subject.
> >> they started it, not I
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I don't know McClain very well, too much rethink for me, I guess,
with
> >too little reward (unlike some things!), but I don't get the
connection
> >with ET (12, or other :-). All due apologies for lack of due
diligence.
> >
> >
> >>Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Must we denegrate 12-equal so much to call it fascism? Yes, we
all
> >>>
> >>>
> >love the
> >
> >
> >>>alternatives, but c'mon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >I don't think it's necessarily denigrating 12-ET to call it
fascism,
> >but I question the accuracy of the assertion. Authoritarian, and
> >possibly totalitarian, sure, but I think Fascism only really
applies
> >where the dark drums of war and conquest (!) are beating (oops!
they
> >are, huh?!), and where the individual is truly NOT included in the
> >political philosophy at all.
> >
> >Plato (and Aristotle?) are all about something like 'common sense'
and
> >rationality, aren't they? As if anyone who really thinks about it
> >would come to the same conclusion? And libertarianism and
classical
> >liberalism assume the same sort of "integrity" of everyone's
capacity
> >to do what's right, as a sort of extension of those guys, no?
> >
> >The general cultural fascism of globalization is more like the
> >steamroller effect of movies and TV and like consumer media. No?
And
> >the fact is that a lot of movie and television and big-budget
> >advertising music is WAY more interesting than the "pop charts".
But I
> >don't wanna talk about Bollywood, or any of that stuff. Too
scary. :-
> >) Shucks, maybe I do... :-)
> >
> >On the other hand, defending 12-ET against the onslaughts of (eg)
JI
> >fascists is kinda like defending muscle cars and SUV's against the
> >onslaught of mass transit and people who would outlaw cars in the
> >United States of America. Pretty silly, I think.
> >
> >Being anti-12-equal is kind of an inevitable part of the process
of
> >discovering what a "real" tuning sounds like, isn't it?
> >
> >Pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> >To post to the list, send to
> >metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>

On Saturday 29 October 2005 2:04 pm, ambassadorbob wrote:

> Being anti-12-equal is kind of an inevitable part of the process of
> discovering what a "real" tuning sounds like, isn't it?
>

No.

-Aaron.

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@a...>
wrote:
>
> On Saturday 29 October 2005 2:04 pm, ambassadorbob wrote:
>
> > Being anti-12-equal is kind of an inevitable part of the process
of
> > discovering what a "real" tuning sounds like, isn't it?
> >
>
> No.
>
> -Aaron.
>

It was for me. When I first realized what I had NOT been told about
tuning my guitar, I was more than a little angry. I'm not anymore.
Not really.

Pete