Re: [metatuning] Re: morality, religion/science as a crazy nonlinear feedbac...

Could it not be that people are sometimes wired differently, at least
creative people? Am I less a musician for preferring the Tuning List to MMM? It
seems to me that MMM is more into ventues into electronic tuning composition.
There is plenty of room for other kinds of composition which is not electronic
on the Tuning List.

best, Johnny

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
> Could it not be that people are sometimes wired differently, at least
> creative people?

I believe so.

> Am I less a musician for preferring the Tuning List to MMM?

Certainly not!

> It seems to me that MMM is more into ventues into electronic
> tuning composition.

That seems to be the case, although there has been a fair amount of
non-computer-based electronic music, mostly people with fretted
instruments. There aren't many people doing contemporary acoustic
classical microtonal music like you, Johnny. At least not as
represented online.

> There is plenty of room for other kinds of composition which is not
> electronic on the Tuning List.

Then where, pray tell, are they? If the Tuning list is such a
welcoming place for practicing musicians and composers, why don't we
see more evidence of it?

Cheers,
Jon

It seems that one of the reason that we get more electronic music is that , these tend to be shorter.
since there are not many song writers on these list ( that have posted) it seems that most people writing acoustic music write longer pieces.
harder to down load.
i couldn't even listen to some of the ones i posted admittedly due to length.
Also the problems with sound quality are much ,ore apparent with acoustic music
why you don't have a section of 'ulysses' up, i don't know . another person who should be considered for this new mexico thing.
(on a personal note- Sara Shoenbeck just moved across the street from me )

Jon Szanto wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> >
>>Could it not be that people are sometimes wired differently, at least >>creative people?
>> >>
>
>I believe so.
>
> >
>>Am I less a musician for preferring the Tuning List to MMM?
>> >>
>
>Certainly not!
>
> >
>>It seems to me that MMM is more into ventues into electronic >>tuning composition.
>> >>
>
>That seems to be the case, although there has been a fair amount of
>non-computer-based electronic music, mostly people with fretted
>instruments. There aren't many people doing contemporary acoustic
>classical microtonal music like you, Johnny. At least not as
>represented online.
>
> >
>>There is plenty of room for other kinds of composition which is not >>electronic on the Tuning List.
>> >>
>
>Then where, pray tell, are they? If the Tuning list is such a
>welcoming place for practicing musicians and composers, why don't we
>see more evidence of it?
>
>Cheers,
>Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

It is welcoming but it is for the ideas and not the practicalities. When I
see how difficult it is to get ideas across, it seems that the Tuning List is
good at what it does. When individuals have difficulty with musicianship, I
accept this -- now, after lots of grief -- because I have difficulty with the
mathematical juggling.

What matters most is respect, especially for those doing things differently.
It is really during those times that respect lapsed, or was perceived to have
been lapsed, that there were fireworks.

It's like the proverbial wife trying to changer her husband. Mistake. Same
with the religious angle, previously explored.

best, Johnny

In a message dated 10/8/2005 11:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jszanto@... writes:
> There is plenty of room for other kinds of composition which is not
> electronic on the Tuning List.

Then where, pray tell, are they? If the Tuning list is such a
welcoming place for practicing musicians and composers, why don't we
see more evidence of it?

Cheers,
Jon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Kraig!

The sound quality is superior in acoustic music (coming from an acoustic
point of view). I guess you are saying it is hard to get good acoustic
performances.

To hear Odysseus (Ulysses), it's already up. Go to:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs1

(so, she had to move after all.)

BTW, I tried to get John Schneider to put Odysseus on in LA. I know it can
be done easily enough, but he wants to put it off for another year.

best, Johnny

In a message dated 10/8/2005 12:15:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kraiggrady@... writes:
Also the problems with sound quality are much ,ore apparent with
acoustic music
why you don't have a section of 'ulysses' up, i don't know . another
person who should be considered for this new mexico thing.
(on a personal note- Sara Shoenbeck just moved across the street from me )

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i don't know if that was posted to the tuning list.
maybe i missed .
it
I think that acoustic music suffers more on compression than electronic music . it is for this reason i am reluctant to post very much of it,
same with length.
You are correct in pointing out that good acoustical performances are quite hard. rarely are things played perfectly the first time out.
Personally it think it is really time to stop ignoring those that are working quite extensively with
microtones.
. While some of the people mentioned as older than us, 'toyed' with microtones, i find it is rather limited in scope compared to those who have done so from the start. I can only assume we have top wait for them all to die off before any real recognition comes out of the default of them not being around.
In the field of electronics, it was easy for those following those who started it to get recognition for the work they did that vastly broaden those before. Why this has not happen in our field i do not know.

Afmmjr@... wrote:

>Hi Kraig!
>
>The sound quality is superior in acoustic music (coming from an acoustic >point of view). I guess you are saying it is hard to get good acoustic >performances.
>
>To hear Odysseus (Ulysses), it's already up. Go to:
>
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs1
>
>(so, she had to move after all.)
>
>BTW, I tried to get John Schneider to put Odysseus on in LA. I know it can >be done easily enough, but he wants to put it off for another year. >
>best, Johnny
>
>In a message dated 10/8/2005 12:15:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, >kraiggrady@... writes:
>Also the problems with sound quality are much ,ore apparent with >acoustic music
>why you don't have a section of 'ulysses' up, i don't know . another >person who should be considered for this new mexico thing.
>(on a personal note- Sara Shoenbeck just moved across the street from me )
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

> I think that acoustic music suffers more on compression than
> electronic music .

Not sure what you mean by compression. If you mean dynamic
compression (as in, "put a compressor on that guitar"), then
I agree. If you mean mp3 compression, I disagree. As a
general rule, acoustic music requires fewer bits/second to
deliver "transparency" (the point where you can't tell the
difference from the source recording) than electric/electronic
music.

Acoustic music certainly suffers more by being recorded!

-C.

>> To hear Odysseus (Ulysses), it's already up. Go to:
>>
>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs1

> i don't know if that was posted to the tuning list.
> maybe i missed it
> I think that acoustic music suffers more on compression than
> electronic music .

Maybe you meant the Odysseus samples above sound like
they're sufferring from too much psychoacoustic compression.
That's because they're at 32Kbps. Gives you a reason
to buy the CD, and makes it so dialup users can stream
them better.

-Carl

> It seems that one of the reason that we get more electronic
> music is that , these tend to be shorter.

I'd guess electronic stuff is more common on MMM because it's
cheaper/easier to make, vs. hiring musicians / building
acoustic instruments etc.

-Carl

Artists that do science:

David Soldier, leader of the Soldier String Quartet and full time biologist
at CU

Peter Neumann, multi-instrumentalist and principle scientist at Stanford

Dave Eggar, solo cellist and Harvard trained scientist

Carl, I'm sure there is a large enough list. For some it is hard to tell
which is the muse.

Johnny

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Artists that do science:
>
> David Soldier, leader of the Soldier String Quartet and full
> time biologist at CU
>
> Peter Neumann, multi-instrumentalist and principle scientist at
Stanford
>
> Dave Eggar, solo cellist and Harvard trained scientist
>
> Carl, I'm sure there is a large enough list. For some it is
> hard to tell which is the muse.

Cool.

-Carl

Szanto favorite composer borodin- chemist
Stravinsky was a lawyer

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>Artists that do science:
>>
>>David Soldier, leader of the Soldier String Quartet and full
>>time biologist at CU
>>
>>Peter Neumann, multi-instrumentalist and principle scientist at >> >>
>Stanford
> >
>>Dave Eggar, solo cellist and Harvard trained scientist
>>
>>Carl, I'm sure there is a large enough list. For some it is
>>hard to tell which is the muse.
>> >>
>
>Cool.
>
>-Carl
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> Szanto favorite composer borodin- chemist
> Stravinsky was a lawyer

Hmmm, don't know where that reference came from, Kraig. I certainly
know Borodin was a chemist, having done program notes on his string
quartets. Not a favorite of mine, necessarily, though.

As to the general topic of scientists as artists, and vice versa,
please count me in the group that knows a good number that fulfill
this paradigm, and that I don't have any difficulty groking this (one
or two "k's" in groking?). My viewpoint is something different: in the
matters discussed around these parts, one can approach from two
directions/sensibilities/attitudes - that of an artist, or that of a
scientist, and including the continuum between the two approaches.
Neither approach is necessarily invalid, but without balance it loses
a fullness, and I still believe that the general atmosphere of
investigation on the tuning list skews heavily to one side. A 'red
state' feeling, if you will.

Cheers,
Jon

i was being sarcastic which i should have included. you mentioned in the past that you didn't care for him

Jon Szanto wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> >
>>Szanto favorite composer borodin- chemist
>>Stravinsky was a lawyer
>> >>
>
>Hmmm, don't know where that reference came from, Kraig. I certainly
>know Borodin was a chemist, having done program notes on his string
>quartets. Not a favorite of mine, necessarily, though.
>
>As to the general topic of scientists as artists, and vice versa,
>please count me in the group that knows a good number that fulfill
>this paradigm, and that I don't have any difficulty groking this (one
>or two "k's" in groking?). My viewpoint is something different: in the
>matters discussed around these parts, one can approach from two
>directions/sensibilities/attitudes - that of an artist, or that of a
>scientist, and including the continuum between the two approaches.
>Neither approach is necessarily invalid, but without balance it loses
>a fullness, and I still believe that the general atmosphere of
>investigation on the tuning list skews heavily to one side. A 'red
>state' feeling, if you will.
>
>Cheers,
>Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
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> >
>
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>
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> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> i was being sarcastic which i should have included. you mentioned in
the
> past that you didn't care for him

Aha. Got it. Also, agreement on your discussion of the past flawed but
magical performances. Which makes me realize: as a participant in one
of those 'flawed' performances, we're coming up on the 30th
anniversary next year of US Highball kicking your ass into action,
Kraig! :)

Cheers,
Jon

congratulations. BTW i should add that this was less flawed than others, but just as magical
Jon Szanto wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> >
>>i was being sarcastic which i should have included. you mentioned in
>> >>
>the > >
>>past that you didn't care for him
>> >>
>
>Aha. Got it. Also, agreement on your discussion of the past flawed but
>magical performances. Which makes me realize: as a participant in one
>of those 'flawed' performances, we're coming up on the 30th
>anniversary next year of US Highball kicking your ass into action,
>Kraig! :)
>
>Cheers,
>Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Meta Tuning meta-info:
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles