Re: [metatuning] Digest Number 1198

[Aaron wrote:]

Your music for one ;)

Which reminds me...I still want to buy your new hammer dulcimer CD
and/or trade CD's...I've been busy lately, but I want to burn
something for you and send it off soon...

-------------------------

I can't recommend this too much! Kraig's little CD is one of the most enjoyable recordings I own, right now!

Cheers,

Pete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There's
nice stuff to be bought if you're rich, but even the rich can't
buy craftsmanship like this.

...Or maybe it's just a lack of touch in general.
Yeah, I think I'd decided that was it.

Thanks for listening,

-Carl

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Carl,

I guess it was always that way, sort of, that you had to be (relatively) rich (???).

I'm not sure when it became irreversible or ubiqitous, but I really got alarmed when it dawned on me (duh?) that we don't make anything here anymore. Except what Bucky called "killingry" (???).

But it seems to me like the only things high quality made in USA are custom order one-offs, or "boutique" = REALLY expensive. All I really know though are the local music shops [:-)], where it seems everything is just as cheap as it can be, AND made somewhere else! (pardon my exaggeration, here).

I really tripped when I wanted to get a little amp for some of my other imstruments, and I remembered those old Roland amps used to be pretty good. Well, they ain't no more! Then I thought, well, that was the heyday of Japanese manufacturing (+/- early 80's?). But I found an old one lying around and I noticed it was made in the USA! So what's the deal?

Anyway, I think I agree with you, it really comes down to what you say about being in touch. And I would say demanding quality for everyone, even if they don't appreciate it (!). And that there has to be at least SOME small sense of self-sufficiency in what we make and use everyday. Sort of?.

I've been more or less forced to watch TV lately, and it seems to me like the programming is getting more and more absurd, the ruthlessness of commerciality is completely unmitigated, and any kind of common sense is deluged with advertising non-sequiturs and emotional appeals to what one can be SURE is hallucinatory or delusional, unless one is already in the throes of an advertising-induced or www.stopactivistjudges.com "bad trip".

As a would-be pedagogue, I'm really trying to come to terms with where the logic gets skewed, or stultified, because I can sense it in myself, and MY kids, who were and are heavily preyed upon by the American "mainstream".

And thank YOU for listening and writing thoughtfully.

Cheers,

P

ps I hope that's not too "civil" for metatuning, hee!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> There's nice stuff to be bought if you're rich, but
>> even the rich can't buy craftsmanship like this.
>>
>> ...Or maybe it's just a lack of touch in general.
>> Yeah, I think I'd decided that was it.
>
> Hi Carl,
>
> I guess it was always that way, sort of, that you had to
> be (relatively) rich (???).

Yes, and a far greater percentage of Americans were
relatively rich then (thanks to the War and the resulting
trade deficit). But my point is that for an equivalent
amount of money today (adjusted for this difference), you
can buy a video projector instead of just a slide projector,
but it will be cheaply made. It won't be around in 50
years to be discovered on a Thursday night.

Nowhere is the cheapening of goods more appaerent to me
than in electric keyboard instruments. If there's one
thing I learned after a year in the Assistant Editor chair
at Keyboard magazine, it's that all modern MIDI keyboards
are junk. They're playable, but at no time does one get
the notion he's sitting in the presence of an instrument.
In the 60s and 70s we had the Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hammond
organ, clavinet, and Moog synth. Today we have instruments
that hope merely to imitate these classics (problem #1)
and they do not come close (problem #2). There's a reason
that every professional keyboard player (excluding session
players) has at least one vintage piece in his rig.

The only digital keyboard ever marketed on musicality --
even sold on a claim of responsiveness -- that I know of
was the Rhodes Chroma (early 80s, made in the USA). It
had real full-length balanced wooden keys that hit metal
tines (mechanism was borrowed from the ARP electric piano)
and produced a digital signal with 256 levels of velocity!
I think MIDI came out the following year, supporting only
128 levels (and most modern controllers can only
consistently produce a fraction of these). I've never
played one, but I long for the chance.

> Anyway, I think I agree with you, it really comes down
> to what you say about being in touch.

I meant physical touch. Like, people don't touch one
another enough.

> And that there has to be at least SOME small sense of self-
> sufficiency in what we make and use everyday. Sort of?.

I always thought elementary school kids should learn to
garden, and junior high kids make their own clothes for
school.

In Berkeley, there's a project that puts gardening programs
in our elementary schools. One of my good friends works for
them. They're a non-profit funded by an ex-Esprit exec... or
was it Vanity Fair? Anyway, the project isn't terribly
successful, but it's probably better than nothing.

> I've been more or less forced to watch TV lately, and it
> seems to me like the programming is getting more and more
> absurd,

When the Tower Records in Berkeley was going out of business
a year or two back, I went in to check out the bargins. I
saw a life-size 50-cent cutout. I hadn't heard of 50-cent
at the time and I felt very weirded out.

Then I went up the street to get a hot dog at my favorite hot
dog joint, and saw the TV on top of the grill. Some show on
FOX was 'coming soon', where they find ugly women and have
them compete for thousands of dollars of cosmetic surgury. I
decided I was witnessing the downfall of our civilization.

But I'd already decided that the year before, when I went over
to my friend's place and saw the orange alert for the first
time. I felt like I was living in a Huxley novel. We got
back at the man, though, by raising (and then drinking) our
own orange alerts -- vodka and OJ with a hot pepper garnish.
Then we had red alerts, with blood OJ... not that I'm much of
a drinker.

>the ruthlessness of commerciality is completely unmitigated,
>and any kind of common sense is deluged with advertising non-
>sequiturs and emotional appeals to what one can be SURE is
>hallucinatory or delusional, unless one is already in the
>throes of an advertising-induced or www.stopactivistjudges.com
>"bad trip".

Yup. Wait a sec, what's stopactivistjudges.com?

>As a would-be pedagogue, I'm really trying to come to terms
>with where the logic gets skewed, or stultified, because I can
>sense it in myself, and MY kids, who were and are heavily
>preyed upon by the American "mainstream".

Oh my god, I used to beg for every manner of junk. Transformers
were cool, I'll give them that. But everything else... My Dad
derided it as "cheap plastic", which was right on but it would
have been nicer had he not insulted my toys so directly.

> And thank YOU for listening and writing thoughtfully.

I got a little carried away.

-Carl

Carl Lumma wrote:

>The only digital keyboard ever marketed on musicality --
>even sold on a claim of responsiveness -- that I know of
>was the Rhodes Chroma (early 80s, made in the USA). It
>had real full-length balanced wooden keys that hit metal
>tines (mechanism was borrowed from the ARP electric piano)
>and produced a digital signal with 256 levels of velocity!
>
Are you sure it wasn't based on the tines of a Fender Rhodes electric piano?

I didn't know that ARP made an electric piano.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> I didn't know that ARP made an electric piano.

Ah, db, I get to return the favor, via Google:
http://www.synthmuseum.com/arp/arppiano01.html

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> >The only digital keyboard ever marketed on musicality --
> >even sold on a claim of responsiveness -- that I know of
> >was the Rhodes Chroma (early 80s, made in the USA). It
> >had real full-length balanced wooden keys that hit metal
> >tines (mechanism was borrowed from the ARP electric piano)
> >and produced a digital signal with 256 levels of velocity!
> >
> Are you sure it wasn't based on the tines of a Fender Rhodes
> electric piano?
>
> I didn't know that ARP made an electric piano.

Yup, ARP. They designed the Chroma, but went under before
they could ship it. Rhodes took it up for its highly
unsuccessful run. Herbie Hancock endorsed it.

-Carl

Jon Szanto wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> >
>>I didn't know that ARP made an electric piano.
>> >>
>
>Ah, db, I get to return the favor, via Google:
>http://www.synthmuseum.com/arp/arppiano01.html
>
>Cheers,
>Jon
> >
Thanks!

It doesn't say anything about tines, but this:

> The 16-Voice consists of two separate tone generators

?

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Carl Lumma wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> >
>>Carl Lumma wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>The only digital keyboard ever marketed on musicality --
>>>even sold on a claim of responsiveness -- that I know of
>>>was the Rhodes Chroma (early 80s, made in the USA). It
>>>had real full-length balanced wooden keys that hit metal
>>>tines (mechanism was borrowed from the ARP electric piano)
>>>and produced a digital signal with 256 levels of velocity!
>>>
>>> >>>
>>Are you sure it wasn't based on the tines of a Fender Rhodes
>>electric piano?
>>
>>I didn't know that ARP made an electric piano.
>> >>
>
>Yup, ARP. They designed the Chroma, but went under before
>they could ship it. Rhodes took it up for its highly
>unsuccessful run. Herbie Hancock endorsed it.
>
>-Carl
> >
http://www.synthmuseum.com/rhodes/rhochroma01.html

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7311739621

-Carl

> >Ah, db, I get to return the favor, via Google:
> >http://www.synthmuseum.com/arp/arppiano01.html
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Jon
> >
> >
> Thanks!
>
> It doesn't say anything about tines, but this:
>
> > The 16-Voice consists of two separate tone generators
>
> ?

The "tines" don't make the sound, but they do generate
control voltages...

http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=sonics&f=1

...they're actually leaf switches. I note that despite
the 256-level digital system, this says the action itself
only generates 8 levels of velocity data. Hmm...

-Carl

Carl Lumma wrote:

> >
>>>Ah, db, I get to return the favor, via Google:
>>>http://www.synthmuseum.com/arp/arppiano01.html
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Jon
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>It doesn't say anything about tines, but this:
>>
>> >>
>>>The 16-Voice consists of two separate tone generators
>>> >>>
>>?
>> >>
>
>The "tines" don't make the sound, but they do generate
>control voltages...
>
>http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=sonics&f=1
>
>...they're actually leaf switches. I note that despite
>the 256-level digital system, this says the action itself
>only generates 8 levels of velocity data. Hmm...
>
Since I own a Fender Rhodes, I know what a tine is. A switch is not a tine.

I had a great love affair with the Rhodes the Summer I bought it and retuned it to

Carlos Harmonic, also Dan Schmidt Slendro-Pelog with 13,17,19,21,27
|
0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect prime
1: 17/16 104.955 17th harmonic
2: 9/8 203.910 major whole tone
3: 19/16 297.513 19th harmonic
4: 5/4 386.314 major third
5: 21/16 470.781 narrow fourth
6: 11/8 551.318 undecimal semi-augmented fourth
7: 3/2 701.955 perfect fifth
8: 13/8 840.528 tridecimal neutral sixth
9: 27/16 905.865 Pythagorean major sixth
10: 7/4 968.826 harmonic seventh
11: 15/8 1088.269 classic major seventh
12: 2/1 1200.000 octave

, but I think it's getting the Pythagorean treatment some time this year.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Carl Lumma wrote:

>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7311739621
>
>-Carl
> >
Clean!

I'm looking at www.rhodeschroma.com <http://www.rhodeschroma.com> right now. Still nothing about the instrument having tines.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

>>The "tines" don't make the sound, but they do generate
>>control voltages...
>>
>> http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=sonics&f=1
>>
>>...they're actually leaf switches. I note that despite
>>the 256-level digital system, this says the action itself
>>only generates 8 levels of velocity data. Hmm...
>>
>Since I own a Fender Rhodes, I know what a tine is. A switch
>is not a tine.

You win db, they're not tines. I was speaking figuratively.
They are the same things used in the ARP EPs, and if you look
at the diagram on the above page you can see that the keys
strike a free piece of metal at the far end, as opposed to
a rubber pad at the near end as on most MIDI keyboards.

-Carl