Re: [metatuning] Digest Number 1161

Or maybe we feel that
> giving Europe the finger a little bit is fair
> play in the competition that's shaping up with
> the EU -- maybe we think such competition is
> healthy.
>
> -Carl

Competition between whom? For what?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Or maybe we feel that
> > giving Europe the finger a little bit is fair
> > play in the competition that's shaping up with
> > the EU -- maybe we think such competition is
> > healthy.
>
> Competition between whom? For what?

Between the EU and the US. For our mutual betterment.

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
>
> > > Or maybe we feel that
> > > giving Europe the finger a little bit is fair
> > > play in the competition that's shaping up with
> > > the EU -- maybe we think such competition is
> > > healthy.
> >
> > Competition between whom? For what?
>
> Between the EU and the US. For our mutual betterment.
>
> -Carl

Hi Carl,

I thought it was just a general statement like that, but I wanted to
double-check.

I recently read an editorial that quoted Rumsfeld saying something
very like "the terrorists are going to attack ["us"]...', and I
thought, You SOB! I'm not afraid of terrorists. I can hardly blame
them for wanting to attack YOU...(Rumsfeld) ;-). It's devilishly
clever, this folksy sort of "us" that these cats who don't seem to
have anything but rapaciousness on their minds use to include "me".

And I reckon I should worry, too, that their false humility and
compassion is going to write handsome "profits", ie pecuniary
advantage, into "rebuilding" after the tsunami. Despicable, in my
not-so-humble opinion.

It's also [just] my [vague] impression that the "EU" is kicking our
asses in terms of dignifying and/or advancing modern life, so the
idea that someone like Bush or any of his cronies could "compete" in
that realm is patently absurd, to me, ...more like, dangerously
misleading.

Pete

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "ambassadorbob" <peteysan@s...> wrote:
> It's also [just] my [vague] impression that the "EU" is kicking our
> asses in terms of dignifying and/or advancing modern life

You aren't alone - as this book alludes:

"The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly
Eclipsing the American Dream"

http://tinyurl.com/4kqu9

Cheers,
Jon

> It's also [just] my [vague] impression that the "EU" is kicking
> our asses in terms of dignifying and/or advancing modern life,

Have you ever lived in the EU?

> so the idea that someone like Bush or any of his cronies
> could "compete" in that realm is patently absurd, to me,
> ...more like, dangerously misleading.

It's not Bush who's competing, but you and I.

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
>
> > It's also [just] my [vague] impression that the "EU" is kicking
> > our asses in terms of dignifying and/or advancing modern life,
>
> Have you ever lived in the EU?

Not in a very long time. Recent friends' travel reports indicate
so, and I did say "vague impression". And, it seems more and more
often that new products I'm interested in are priced in Euros.

Have you? How did you like it?
>
> > so the idea that someone like Bush or any of his cronies
> > could "compete" in that realm is patently absurd, to me,
> > ...more like, dangerously misleading.
>
> It's not Bush who's competing, but you and I.
>
> -Carl

For what?

That's good, I guess, if you intend you share the fruits of your
triumph. I hope I do, if I'm actually IN competition with anyone
for anything. I just try to be better than I was yesterday,
compared to...me. If someone "kicks my ass" on a field of skill, or
at being a better human being, I hope I take the lesson with all due
humility. If someone flips me off, I just want to kill them...quite
literally. ;-)

I made the comment in reference to what I thought you proposed might
be a scenario for US official policy-makers to be "giving the
finger" to EU environmental hand-wringers, et al. Which would be
about 'par' for "free-market"-ers like most of of our elected
officials, who seem clearly more rapacious and cruel than they
are "socially responsible".

I hope I didn't completely mistake your point...

Pete

> > > It's also [just] my [vague] impression that the "EU" is
> > > kicking our asses in terms of dignifying and/or advancing
> > > modern life,
> >
> > Have you ever lived in the EU?
>
> Not in a very long time. Recent friends' travel reports indicate
> so, and I did say "vague impression". And, it seems more and more
> often that new products I'm interested in are priced in Euros.
>
> Have you? How did you like it?

I traveled extensively in Europe as a kid, before the EU meant
anything and before the end of the USSR. I loved it, though.
There's always this idea I have of moving there for a while.
But jobs are basically impossible to get without a graduate
degree, and the cost of living is freaking unbelievably high.

> > > so the idea that someone like Bush or any of his cronies
> > > could "compete" in that realm is patently absurd, to me,
> > > ...more like, dangerously misleading.
> >
> > It's not Bush who's competing, but you and I.
>
> For what?

Everything, I suppose.

> That's good, I guess, if you intend you share the fruits of your
> triumph. I hope I do, if I'm actually IN competition with anyone
> for anything.

Oh, you are. How many hours a week do you work? How many hours
do you think your quality of life would really require?

> I made the comment in reference to what I thought you proposed
> might be a scenario for US official policy-makers to be "giving
> the finger" to EU environmental hand-wringers, et al. Which
> would be about 'par' for "free-market"-ers like most of of our
> elected officials, who seem clearly more rapacious and cruel
> than they are "socially responsible".

Dunno.

> I hope I didn't completely mistake your point...

I'm probably a free marketer in some sense. I think you
interpreted my comments correctly. What I meant by "you and I"
was not that we're in competition (though we are), but simply
that Bush isn't competing with the EU, the American people are.
Bush can steer the vibe, yes, but not create it out of thin air.

The way of Nature is a balance between cooperation and
competition. Both are needed. Finding the best balance is
tricky. I would like to see more non-competition agreements
in the US, for example mandatory 6 weeks of paid vacation.
(Unions are a rather dirty type of coalition forming, I find.)

Both competition and cooperation can exist simultaneously.
We are, for example, totally interdependent with China, and
also in fierce competition with them.

The Economist had a great chart recently -- the GDP of the
US has gone up some ungodly amount since 1980, and so
has the number of hours worked (largely due to women).
France has enjoyed GDP growth, though not nearly as much,
but has done it with *less* hours worked since 1980.
Now that's cool.

Sorry this is so random, I'm late to catch a plane.

-Carl