Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning Penrose Tiles/Dalai Lama

Kind of changing subjects here but outside of actually making molds for
cement to make my own Penrose Tile stepping stones
many near my sweat lodge.
I don't think I have seen much mention of Erv inclusion of the tiles at
the end of his dallesandro article or it use on one cover of Xenharmonikon
as a way to explore tone space in a semi crystalline fashion. Maybe this
will be one of those post that will lead to one of the other lists,
instead of our usual other way around :)

BTW . I have heard that the Dalai lama has been in the hospital since the
6th. any one heard more?

Carl Lumma wrote:

> > and this one:
> > http://website.lineone.net/~kwelos/AI.htm
>
> Links to...
>
> http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-06-moravec.html
>
> -Carl
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

On Friday 09 July 2004 09:15 am, Kraig Grady wrote:
> Kind of changing subjects here but outside of actually making molds for
> cement to make my own Penrose Tile stepping stones
> many near my sweat lodge.

Wow....that sounds so incredibly *cool* !!!!! My wife and I made cardboard
penrose tiles once as a fun project. They are the coolest thing since the
cosmos itself.

I thought that doing intense decorative motives (wallpaper, stepping stones,
etc.) would be cost prohibitive, not to mention the fact that there exists no
algorithm that allows one to prove that a given random tiled state will
*successfully* tile outward infinately.....

....so I'm assuming you are starting your stepping stones with one of the
known configurations that *does* go outward indefinately?

> I don't think I have seen much mention of Erv inclusion of the tiles at
> the end of his dallesandro article or it use on one cover of Xenharmonikon
> as a way to explore tone space in a semi crystalline fashion. Maybe this
> will be one of those post that will lead to one of the other lists,
> instead of our usual other way around :)

Hey, that's fascinating...care to elaborate on that (in the other list)?

>
> BTW . I have heard that the Dalai lama has been in the hospital since the
> 6th. any one heard more?

I didn't know that...is he ready to move on to the next incarnation?

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

"Aaron K. Johnson" wrote:

>
>
> Wow....that sounds so incredibly *cool* !!!!! My wife and I made cardboard
> penrose tiles once as a fun project. They are the coolest thing since the
> cosmos itself.
>
> I thought that doing intense decorative motives (wallpaper, stepping stones,
> etc.) would be cost prohibitive, not to mention the fact that there exists no
> algorithm that allows one to prove that a given random tiled state will
> *successfully* tile outward infinately.....

It is a bit of work and was making two stones a day ( a thick and a thin lacking
better terms) and originally was going to cover a whole patio area.
The thing was i didn't like the way they looked altogether finding i like
little bits and pieces more, so have spread them out through the whole yard.
it think that they were big ( a foot per tile)

>
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

🔗Paul Erlich <PERLICH@...>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@...>

Hi Kraig,

I've used his idea for the Fibonacci tonescapes in FTS.
They do a single row traverse along a row of tiles
in the Penrose tiling (then I extend the idea to other
fibonacci type patterns built up recursively in the same
way as the L S sequences for Penrose tilings).

I link to your anaphoria
file at the end or this page in the help
-
http://www.tunesmithy.netfirms.com/fts_help/Penrose_tilings.htm

- Manuel told me about it which is how I got the idea.
I see that that link at the end needs updating
- do you know where it is on the site so that I
can update the link? I remember I saw his figure
in one of the pdfs but I can't remember where I saw it now.

If you choose just any ratio for the intervals for the
wide and narrow rhombs then the tune rapidly rises
or falls in pitch. But with some choices then
you can continue along the row of tiles
for a long time with the overall pitch kept steady.
So for instance with 10/11 and 7/6 as your
two ratios, the pitch is very steady.

A bit about how that works is described here:

http://www.tunesmithy.netfirms.com/fts_help/fibonacci_rhythm.htm#Fibonacci_tonescapes

FTS can find suitable "companion" ratios for
any ratio entered by the user, to keep the
pitch of the tonescape steady over long
periods of time.

Here is an example midi clip that plays
notes along a row of a Penrose tiling
using the ratios 10/11 and 7/6

http://www.robertinventor.com/jazzy_fibonacci_tonescape_v2.mid

- also played in a Fibonacci rhythm - there
I'm using the strict rhythm where the L beat
corresponds to the wide rhombs in the tiling
to make sure it is thoroughly Penrose tiling
based.

However, it is only one dimensional as the
FTS tonescapes travel along a single row of tiles
in the tiling (in the case where they use the
Fibonacci rhythm that corresponds to a Penrose tiling row).

When using a Penrose tiling it would
be interesting to somehow use it
in two dimensions as well. I haven't had
any ideas about how to do that in a fractal
tune. But the same ratios such as
10/11 and 7/6 could be used
to keep the pitch level of the 2D
fibonacci tonescape for the Penrose
tiling steady over large patches of the
surface of the tiling.

Robert

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Robert Walker wrote:

> Hi Kraig,
>
> > I don't think I have seen much mention of Erv inclusion of the tiles at
> > the end of his dallesandro article or it use on one cover of Xenharmonikon
> > as a way to explore tone space in a semi crystalline fashion. Maybe this
> > will be one of those post that will lead to one of the other lists,
> > instead of our usual other way around :)
>
> I've used his idea for the Fibonacci tonescapes in FTS.
> They do a single row traverse along a row of tiles
> in the Penrose tiling (then I extend the idea to other
> fibonacci type patterns built up recursively in the same
> way as the L S sequences for Penrose tilings).

Yes this is the way we have wanted to play with this, mainly with some parallel
intervals
as you example illustrates. having different voice pairs crisscrossing over the same
area, so to speak. another piece based on a
few pairs (between 3 and 6) starting at one 'junction' all having one tone in common
and going out and later returning

Ass you might already know. Lou Harrison was big into the fibonacci series and was a
member of the Fibonacci society.
he also advocated a method of doing microtonal music which he called 'free style" where
not the tones were predetermined, but the intervals.
these tilings kind of combine these too interest of his.

>
>
> I link to your anaphoria
> file at the end or this page in the help
> -
> http://www.tunesmithy.netfirms.com/fts_help/Penrose_tilings.htm
>
>

last page of

> http://www.anaphoria.com/dal.PDF

But there was also a cover of Xenharmonikon that took it out past the confines of a
small area but have neither put this up or
can i seem to be able to find this off hand

> - Manuel told me about it which is how I got the idea.
> I see that that link at the end needs updating
> - do you know where it is on the site so that I
> can update the link? I remember I saw his figure
> in one of the pdfs but I can't remember where I saw it now.
>
> If you choose just any ratio for the intervals for the
> wide and narrow rhombs then the tune rapidly rises
> or falls in pitch. But with some choices then
> you can continue along the row of tiles
> for a long time with the overall pitch kept steady.
> So for instance with 10/11 and 7/6 as your
> two ratios, the pitch is very steady.

I think Ervs idea was to use the harmonic series represented by the centered pentad
(plus the inversion of these) that way you actually can end up with full harmonic and
subharmonic hexads in the most unusual places!

>
>
> A bit about how that works is described here:
>
> http://www.tunesmithy.netfirms.com/fts_help/fibonacci_rhythm.htm#Fibonacci_tonescapes
>
> FTS can find suitable "companion" ratios for
> any ratio entered by the user, to keep the
> pitch of the tonescape steady over long
> periods of time.
>
> Here is an example midi clip that plays
> notes along a row of a Penrose tiling
> using the ratios 10/11 and 7/6
>
> http://www.robertinventor.com/jazzy_fibonacci_tonescape_v2.mid
>
> - also played in a Fibonacci rhythm - there
> I'm using the strict rhythm where the L beat
> corresponds to the wide rhombs in the tiling
> to make sure it is thoroughly Penrose tiling
> based.

This is indeed an interesting addition to Dave Canwright's Fibonacci rhythm
and my own Horogram Rhythms.

>
>
> However, it is only one dimensional as the
> FTS tonescapes travel along a single row of tiles
> in the tiling (in the case where they use the
> Fibonacci rhythm that corresponds to a Penrose tiling row).
>
> When using a Penrose tiling it would
> be interesting to somehow use it
> in two dimensions as well. I haven't had
> any ideas about how to do that in a fractal
> tune. But the same ratios such as
> 10/11 and 7/6 could be used
> to keep the pitch level of the 2D
> fibonacci tonescape for the Penrose
> tiling steady over large patches of the
> surface of the tiling.
>
> Robert
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST