The Political Compass

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

My result was just slightly left and just slightly libertarian.

I think I've posted this related thing here before...

http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

...which pegs me on the line between left, libertarian and
centrist.

No wonder I don't vote...

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html

Who the hell is Dennis Kucinich?

-Carl

I'm happy to report that I am slightly left of the Dalai Lama. :-)

Dante

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Lumma [mailto:clumma@...]
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 6:58 PM
> To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [metatuning] The Political Compass
>
>
> http://www.politicalcompass.org/
>
> My result was just slightly left and just slightly libertarian.
>
> I think I've posted this related thing here before...
>
> http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html
>
> ...which pegs me on the line between left, libertarian and
> centrist.
>
>
> No wonder I don't vote...
>
> http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html
>
> Who the hell is Dennis Kucinich?
>
> -Carl
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
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>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" <dante@i...> wrote:
> I'm happy to report that I am slightly left of the Dalai Lama. :-)

All this makes me wonder: if you were to keep going left, would you eventually end up wrapping around and become John Ashcroft?

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" <dante@i...> wrote:
> > I'm happy to report that I am slightly left of the Dalai Lama. :-)
>
> All this makes me wonder: if you were to keep going left, would you
eventually end up wrapping around and become John Ashcroft?
>

Well, I might soar into John Ashcroft and flatten him, which doesn't
sound like a bad idea. I came out *very* left and somewhat
libertarian, right there with Ghandi (Ganndi?), Nelson Mandela, Al
Sharpton, and Dennis Kucinich: all people I admire, and the last of
whom, house representative from Ohio, I would vote for if he had a
chance. He has the best positions of any of the Democrat candidates,
and was anti-war all the way, his only irritating quality being that
he's a little too ostentatious about being a vegan. Still, better than
being ostentatious about his religion, like Lieberman. I didn't care
for the word libertarian because I think the libertarians would let
the corporations run wild, but if authoritarian is the alternative,
I'm all for it.

Cheers,

Kyle the lefty

> Well, I might soar into John Ashcroft and flatten him, which doesn't
> sound like a bad idea. I came out *very* left and somewhat
> libertarian, right there with Ghandi (Ganndi?),

Oops, of course I meant Gandhi. I took Sanskrit in college, but I
always get confused about where the H's go.

Kyle

Well, that was interesting, but...

I wonder: do you think that right-leaning people would think that right-leaning people wrote the test, and left-leaning, etc? As I was answering, I kept thinking that it was skewed in the manner that I figured I was going to end up anyway, but... I don't know! I'd be curious to see if anyone else around here came up in the upper-right quadrant.

For the record:
Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.44

"I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam", he said...

Cheers,
Jon

Hey,

I actually surprised myself--I feel somewhat more centrist than I am...when
apparantly, I'm left of center (-7) and somewhat libertarian (-3.85) !!!!

I'm going to vote for whoever can beat Bush (Dean), even though they are
closer to him than Kucinich, who I'm apparantly closeest to on the 2-d chart.

I loathe Sharpton...I think he's an opportunist and a knee-jerk reactionary,
and incites racism.

Best,
Aaron.

On Friday 02 January 2004 11:41 pm, kylegann1955 wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> > --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" <dante@i...> wrote:
> > > I'm happy to report that I am slightly left of the Dalai Lama. :-)
> >
> > All this makes me wonder: if you were to keep going left, would you
>
> eventually end up wrapping around and become John Ashcroft?
>
>
> Well, I might soar into John Ashcroft and flatten him, which doesn't
> sound like a bad idea. I came out *very* left and somewhat
> libertarian, right there with Ghandi (Ganndi?), Nelson Mandela, Al
> Sharpton, and Dennis Kucinich: all people I admire, and the last of
> whom, house representative from Ohio, I would vote for if he had a
> chance. He has the best positions of any of the Democrat candidates,
> and was anti-war all the way, his only irritating quality being that
> he's a little too ostentatious about being a vegan. Still, better than
> being ostentatious about his religion, like Lieberman. I didn't care
> for the word libertarian because I think the libertarians would let
> the corporations run wild, but if authoritarian is the alternative,
> I'm all for it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kyle the lefty
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
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--
OCEAN, n. A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made
for man -- who has no gills. -Ambrose Bierce 'The Devils Dictionary'

That what i ended up doing, something like a square knot around his neck

Jon Szanto wrote:

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" <dante@i...> wrote:
> > I'm happy to report that I am slightly left of the Dalai Lama. :-)
>
> All this makes me wonder: if you were to keep going left, would you eventually end up wrapping around and become John Ashcroft?
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Here ya go (for a start):

1. Exactness of consonance is not worth the transpositional
inconvenience of an unequal scale.

Strongly disagree
Disagree
Agree
Strongly agree

2. Creating sonorities never heard before is much more exciting than
simply getting traditional tonal harmonies perfectly in tune.

Strongly disagree
Disagree
Agree
Strongly agree

Let's see who the authoritarian tuning theorists among us are. :^D

Cheers,

Kyle (-8.5 on the JI scale)

Kyle-

Your questions exclude a middle ground....sort of like a lawyer forcing a
simple 'yes or no' from a witness....

My test would be these questions:

1. Sometimes I want more notes to the octave, because I want transposition
convenience, as well as purer harmonies, and sometimes even alien harmonies.
I hate being limited by a fixed historical or theoretical standard, including
straight JI, which I also love. 'Don't fence me in' is my motto. Ivor
Darreg's writings resonate with me.

Strongly disgree
Disagree
Agree
Stongly agree

(Aaron's answer: Strongly agree)

2. I get turned on by both new and excited, never-heard-before harmonies, as
well as a perfectly in tune traditional triad sung by Bulgarian peasants, or
a harmonic seventh chord sung by a Barbershop Quartet. I see no reason not to
do both.

Stongly disagree
Disagree
Agree
Strongly agree

(Aaron's answer: Strongly agree)

;>)

Cheers,
Aaron.

On Saturday 03 January 2004 09:05 am, kylegann1955 wrote:
> Here ya go (for a start):
>
> 1. Exactness of consonance is not worth the transpositional
> inconvenience of an unequal scale.
>
> Strongly disagree
> Disagree
> Agree
> Strongly agree
>
> 2. Creating sonorities never heard before is much more exciting than
> simply getting traditional tonal harmonies perfectly in tune.
>
> Strongly disagree
> Disagree
> Agree
> Strongly agree
>
> Let's see who the authoritarian tuning theorists among us are. :^D
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kyle (-8.5 on the JI scale)
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
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>
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>
>
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>
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>
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--
OCEAN, n. A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made
for man -- who has no gills. -Ambrose Bierce 'The Devils Dictionary'

kylegann1955 wrote:

> Here ya go (for a start):
>
> 1. Exactness of consonance is not worth the transpositional
> inconvenience of an unequal scale.
>
> Strongly disagree

it is exactly the result of the transposition in an unequal scale that
much musical meaning is possible in more variety.
Why bother transposing if all you get is the same intervals:)

>
>
> 2. Creating sonorities never heard before is much more exciting than
> simply getting traditional tonal harmonies perfectly in tune.
>
> Strongly agree

the traditional tonal harmonies have seemed to have taken care of
themselves!

>
>
> Let's see who the authoritarian tuning theorists among us are. :^D
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kyle (-8.5 on the JI scale)
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
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>
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>
>
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Hello Aaron!

"Aaron K. Johnson" wrote:

> 'Don't fence me in' is my motto. Ivor
> Darreg's writings resonate with me.

I can't think of any greater fence than an equal division. it is impossible to
add on to unless you just want to double by division. At least JI you can add or
substract just about anywhere.

>
> I get turned on by both new and excited, never-heard-before harmonies, as
> well as a perfectly in tune traditional triad sung by Bulgarian peasants, or
> a harmonic seventh chord sung by a Barbershop Quartet. I see no reason not to
> do both.

I am not quite sure 'exactly what the Bulgarian are singing, Many harmonies
centered around pedal tones

>
>
> Stongly disagree
> Disagree
> Agree
> Strongly agree
>
> (Aaron's answer: Strongly agree)
>
> ;>)
>
> Cheers,
> Aaron.
>
> On Saturday 03 January 2004 09:05 am, kylegann1955 wrote:
> > Here ya go (for a start):
> >
> > 1. Exactness of consonance is not worth the transpositional
> > inconvenience of an unequal scale.
> >
> > Strongly disagree
> > Disagree
> > Agree
> > Strongly agree
> >
> > 2. Creating sonorities never heard before is much more exciting than
> > simply getting traditional tonal harmonies perfectly in tune.
> >
> > Strongly disagree
> > Disagree
> > Agree
> > Strongly agree
> >
> > Let's see who the authoritarian tuning theorists among us are. :^D
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Kyle (-8.5 on the JI scale)
> >
> >
> >
> > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> > To post to the list, send to
> > metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > /metatuning/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> OCEAN, n. A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made
> for man -- who has no gills. -Ambrose Bierce 'The Devils Dictionary'
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Forgive me for posting this thread redundantly to tuning as well, but I think
I'd like to hear what others who don't follow metatuning might say:

On Saturday 03 January 2004 12:36 pm, kraig grady wrote:
> Hello Aaron!
>
> "Aaron K. Johnson" wrote:
> > 'Don't fence me in' is my motto. Ivor
> > Darreg's writings resonate with me.
>
> I can't think of any greater fence than an equal division. it is
> impossible to add on to unless you just want to double by division. At
> least JI you can add or substract just about anywhere.

We're getting into subjective opinion here, but for my part, although I live
for new frontiers, I simply can't kiss 800 years of great music, some just,
some equal, some well-tempered, goodbye. (like Partch was reputed to have
done)

An equal division is very useful for what it does. It's just another color in
an infinite palette!!! I favor 19, 31, and 53tet, but wrote a piece in 10tet,
and another that goes between some odd ones like 11 and 13 and 5 and 7-tet,
and loved the result! I also have done much improv in 7 and 5-tets. And I
also work in JI---I love harmonic scales, 5-limit, your 'Centaur', Hahn's '32
consonance'. But purity gets boring, too--I love neutral intervals. I love
historical temperaments and meantones and Pythagorean, too. And, while I'm at
it, 12-tet is perfectly fine for 12-tet music, I think, and most meaty jazz
chords sound best in it. I consider it an 'alternate' tuning, in that it's an
'alternative'. In fact, mixing tunings can be great fun--I like the 'beating'
that results--it's good for certain moods or effects--somewhat spooky, or
even humorous moods or colors are enormously available when one does this. I
did a 7-limit just against 12-equal--really sick sounding, but in a good
way!!!!

There's only one rule in music--Debussy said it--what pleases the ear. What's
on paper is fine, but how does it sound? This is after all, a sonic art we
are talking about. Good music is a mixture of intelligence (structure and
function and form) AND sensuality (beauty and expression). If it has these
things, I don't care what the tuning is, although I'm partial to it having a
non-12 tuning for novelty at this point.....

I'm a pragmatist, not a fundamentalist. I believe in 'the right tool for the
right job', which is whatever you feel you need to express musically. If you
only need to thinnk and feel in JI, great. I just am not that way--I'm an
omnivore as a listener and performer (and composer) anyhow. I just did
Handel's Messiah at Civic Opera house in Chicago, then I turn around and
do, for lack of a better description, dark-ambient epic soundscapes with my
percussionist friend Andy Hasenpflug, a day later. My interest in tuning
possible on a 12 note keyboard reflect my practicality at wanting to explore
NOW, not later, when I have specialized microtonal instruments, which cost
time (to build) or money (to buy)....

Cheers,
Aaron.

> > I get turned on by both new and excited, never-heard-before harmonies,
> > as well as a perfectly in tune traditional triad sung by Bulgarian
> > peasants, or a harmonic seventh chord sung by a Barbershop Quartet. I see
> > no reason not to do both.
>
> I am not quite sure 'exactly what the Bulgarian are singing, Many
> harmonies centered around pedal tones
>
> > Stongly disagree
> > Disagree
> > Agree
> > Strongly agree
> >
> > (Aaron's answer: Strongly agree)
> >
> > ;>)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Aaron.
> >
> > On Saturday 03 January 2004 09:05 am, kylegann1955 wrote:
> > > Here ya go (for a start):
> > >
> > > 1. Exactness of consonance is not worth the transpositional
> > > inconvenience of an unequal scale.
> > >
> > > Strongly disagree
> > > Disagree
> > > Agree
> > > Strongly agree
> > >
> > > 2. Creating sonorities never heard before is much more exciting than
> > > simply getting traditional tonal harmonies perfectly in tune.
> > >
> > > Strongly disagree
> > > Disagree
> > > Agree
> > > Strongly agree
> > >
> > > Let's see who the authoritarian tuning theorists among us are. :^D
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Kyle (-8.5 on the JI scale)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> > >
> > > To post to the list, send to
> > > metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > You don't have to be a member to post.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > /metatuning/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > --
> > OCEAN, n. A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made
> > for man -- who has no gills. -Ambrose Bierce 'The Devils Dictionary'
> >
> > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> > To post to the list, send to
> > metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > /metatuning/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> -- -Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
> http://www.anaphoria.com
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST
>
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> /metatuning/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
OCEAN, n. A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made
for man -- who has no gills. -Ambrose Bierce 'The Devils Dictionary'

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> http://www.politicalcompass.org/
>
> My result was just slightly left and just slightly libertarian.

Mine was

Economic Left/Right: -2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.23

which puts me in the same quadrant as you, but I'm much more socially
liberal.

Of course it was obvious from the way the questions were asked that
this test comes from a libertarian organization . . .

> I think I've posted this related thing here before...
>
> http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html
>
> ...which pegs me on the line between left, libertarian and
> centrist.
>
>
> No wonder I don't vote...
>
> http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html
>
> Who the hell is Dennis Kucinich?

Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:
> Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)

The one he doesn't vote in.

Cheers,
Jon

> > My result was just slightly left and just slightly
> > libertarian.
>
> Mine was
>
> Economic Left/Right: -2.38
> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.23
>
> which puts me in the same quadrant as you, but I'm much more
> socially liberal.

I actually forget my score. I "saved" the graph, forgetting
to check it before I closed the page. The graph is acutally
pasted together from lots of little files by a script, so I
only got an empty unit square. Anyway, I don't think the
test is so accurate, though it did place all of us (that I
saw) in the same quandrant, did it not?

> Of course it was obvious from the way the questions were asked
> that this test comes from a libertarian organization . . .

I know the self-gov.org one does, but what org. is the compass
from?

> > I think I've posted this related thing here before...
> >
> > http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html
> >
> > ...which pegs me on the line between left, libertarian and
> > centrist.
> >
> >
> > No wonder I don't vote...
> >
> > http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/
> > usprimaries.html
> >
> > Who the hell is Dennis Kucinich?
>
> Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)

The "People's Republic of Berkeley". :)

-Carl

> > Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)
>
> The one he doesn't vote in.

I've voted twice in my life. Once for Ross Perot in
1996 on the off chance he would get in and bring the
system crashing down, and once in the California Recall,
because there was a candidate I actually liked and
there was a possibility of a "non-strategic" vote (you
could vote on a candidate without voting yes on recall).
I resolved not to reveal the candidate's name to anyone
(or did I once slip up here?), so don't ask. I have no
plans to vote in the future.

I wish I could explain why I don't vote in a way you'd
understand, and I *have* tried. I guess one way to say
it is that I choose to contribute to my country, which
I love, in other ways.

Ultimately it's not about what country I live in, but
what reality. I'm slowly coming to realize that others
do not necessarily view reality as a figment of their
imaginations, in a sense. On the other hand, they often
believe in God, or something equally mystical. Seems
bizzare to me, but I guess ya gotta go with what works.

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> > > Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)
> >
> > The one he doesn't vote in.
>
> I've voted twice in my life.

...and etc. I liked the Berkeley explanation better! :) Ya gotta love a 'country' (Berk) with so much intelligence, tolerance for individuals, and more good places to eat than you can cope with!!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

> > Who the hell is Dennis Kucinich?
>
> Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)

The People's Republic of Berkeley.

In a message dated 2004:01:07 01:51:19 AM, clumma@... writes:

>> Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)
>
>The "People's Republic of Berkeley". :)

Oaktown/Funktown here... right by the Lake... down the street from the Bakery.

Wow! I didn't realize I had an on-line music teacher/pal _that_ close by...
::shakes head of dizzy spell:: I thought Chalmers and Grady were the closest
by to me... :)

---///// __/_//_/ __/_//_////// __/_//_/ __/_//_/

in the yera of 2004 CE, year 4702 of the Huangdi era,
Year of the Wooden Monkey, _Jia-Shen_...

_Nom de Guerre et Nom de 'Nick'_: Hanuman "Stitch/626" Zhang
AIN Resistance partisan code name: "Z23-4C"
WOGeR (Wiley Oriental Gentleman/Rogue)
BBC (BritishBornChinaman)
Avatar of Sun Wu K'ung, a.k.a. Sun Wukong, a.k.a _Ma-Lau_ ("Monkey
King")
a.k.a. "TricksterGod of the Glorious Anti-Imperialist Chinese Boxers"
http://www.uglychinese.org/war.htm
¡¡¡ TricksterShapeShifterIncarnate !!! >^..^< ';'
;P~~~
"one o' dem best-est & bright-est a' de bottom o' de barrel"
<A HREF="http://www.friendster.com/user.jsp">Friendster - zHANgster</A>

=> om hung hanumatay rudratmakai hung phat <=
mantra to Hanuman the Hindu Monkey TricksterGod

==> Ko nahi janat hai jag mein kapi, sankat mochan naam tiharo <==
[Who does not know that in this world oh monkey, thy name is one which
liberates one out of all problems].

"Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist...
Imitation is suicide." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I rather be whole than good." - Carl Jung

I Am A Bird, don't try
to tell my wings where to fly.

<= thee prIs ov eXistenZ iz aetern'l warfaer 'N' kreativ playf'llnizz... =>
"Mea typo, mea typo, mea maxima typo... "

"Life is all a great joke, but only the brave ever get the point."
- Kenneth Rexroth

googolgigglabyte
goegolgiechelbijt - of - met een vette megagrijns
GoogolGekicherByte
googolrisibyte ===> el byte de la risita de googol
googolrisadinhabyte ===> o byte de risadinha de googol
googolspassoctet
guugoIllolbijt
gugolhihibajt
gugolngisibayt
okukolkikikol
egúgelegigalibaith
kiletstroknolyadgigabaiti
cimacimakekehapi
baitakhakhweifayatrauni
ufi'auayinisuguguluarkhar
pokatra oemadroabhethetre
inarevuta yhiyhayhake nawyo
AnekoMeppathmoTtilvatelmDiggulgyttahat
va'i utne tuktukt'ishushukuko`g tuk go`go`o`gwgaga
ggsngngsbd [gugulaNexebidi]

http://www.boheme-magazine.net

In a message dated 2004:01:07 02:13:27 AM, clumma@... writes:

>I've voted twice in my life. Once for Ross Perot in
>1996 on the off chance he would get in and bring the
>system crashing down

a la the anarcho-punk: Don't Vote, Vomit!

>and once in the California Recall,
>because there was a candidate I actually liked and
>there was a possibility of a "non-strategic" vote (you
>Could vote on a candidate without voting yes on recall).
>I resolved not to reveal the candidate's name to anyone
>(or did I once slip up here?), so don't ask. I have no
>plans to vote in the future.

Me either.

"Free Markets do not Make for Free Minds. The Market always
Dictates!" - anarchist critique of Libertarianism's advocacy of the ultra-conservative
idea of the ultra-capitalistic "Free Market"

everything I know is what is what I have been sold

"Capitalism is Organized Crime" - anarchist saying

---

MENE MENE TEKEL UPARSHIN

<< numbered numbered weighed divided>>

"The Lord has numbered the number of your days and brought them to an end.
You have been weighed in the balance and found wanting. Your kingdom will be
divided between the Medes and the Persians." (Note the resemblance of "Persians"
to "uparshin".)

You & your Imperialistic, Decadent Civilization has been Counted &
Counted Again, Weighed, is found severely Lacking-&-Wanting... It will be
Divided & Torn-Apart/Asunder from Outside and from Within

"Babylon sistem, Roman' vampire em-pire!
Jah take Babylon aen Mammon down
Jah thro dey throne aen crown down!" - Strong-Arm Prophets

---

>I wish I could explain why I don't vote in a way you'd
>understand, and I *have* tried. I guess one way to say
>it is that I choose to contribute to my country, which
>I love, in other ways.

LOYALTY DEMANDS DISSENT

friends don't let friends vote fascist

"...some officers are just not worth walkin' Point for...
so I Harass the Brass or Frag his Ass!...Tyrannicide is just much an act
of Patriotism as War Crimes are Treason against Humanity..." - decrypted email
from one of my spec war soldier friends in Afghanistan

>Ultimately it's not about what country I live in, but
>what reality. I'm slowly coming to realize that others
>do not necessarily view reality as a figment of their
>imaginations, in a sense. On the other hand, they often
>believe in God, or something equally mystical.

I much prefer the terms "numinousity" and "spirituality"
(as in: Religion is for those who are afraid of Hell - spirituality
is for those who - hardfought and tenacious - have been to Hell and back...)
Now I can't stomach unscientific New Age crap (i.e. pyramid power to
faith healing, etc. even acupuncture does hold water with either me or
science), that's _mystical_ mumbo jumbo to me...

> Seems bizzare to me

I like bizarre ;) ... part of the reasons I like both the Yang of
Hinduism and Yin of the Cthulhu Mythos... and also Panentheism and Chaos Theory...

> but I guess ya gotta go with what works.

Yep, like they say in AA: fake it till ya make it.

---///// __/_//_/ __/_//_////// __/_//_/ __/_//_/

in the yera of 2004 CE, year 4702 of the Huangdi era,
Year of the Wooden Monkey, _Jia-Shen_...

_Nom de Guerre et Nom de 'Nick'_: Hanuman "Stitch/626" Zhang
AIN Resistance partisan code name: "Z23-4C"
WOGeR (Wiley Oriental Gentleman/Rogue)
BBC (BritishBornChinaman)
Avatar of Sun Wu K'ung, a.k.a. Sun Wukong, a.k.a _Ma-Lau_ ("Monkey
King")
a.k.a. "TricksterGod of the Glorious Anti-Imperialist Chinese Boxers"
http://www.uglychinese.org/war.htm
¡¡¡ TricksterShapeShifterIncarnate !!! >^..^< ';'
;P~~~
"one o' dem best-est & bright-est a' de bottom o' de barrel"
<A HREF="http://www.friendster.com/user.jsp">Friendster - zHANgster</A>

=> om hung hanumatay rudratmakai hung phat <=
mantra to Hanuman the Hindu Monkey TricksterGod

==> Ko nahi janat hai jag mein kapi, sankat mochan naam tiharo <==
[Who does not know that in this world oh monkey, thy name is one which
liberates one out of all problems].

"Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist...
Imitation is suicide." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I rather be whole than good." - Carl Jung

I Am A Bird, don't try
to tell my wings where to fly.

<= thee prIs ov eXistenZ iz aetern'l warfaer 'N' kreativ playf'llnizz... =>
"Mea typo, mea typo, mea maxima typo... "

"Life is all a great joke, but only the brave ever get the point."
- Kenneth Rexroth

googolgigglabyte
goegolgiechelbijt - of - met een vette megagrijns
GoogolGekicherByte
googolrisibyte ===> el byte de la risita de googol
googolrisadinhabyte ===> o byte de risadinha de googol
googolspassoctet
guugoIllolbijt
gugolhihibajt
gugolngisibayt
okukolkikikol
egúgelegigalibaith
kiletstroknolyadgigabaiti
cimacimakekehapi
baitakhakhweifayatrauni
ufi'auayinisuguguluarkhar
pokatra oemadroabhethetre
inarevuta yhiyhayhake nawyo
AnekoMeppathmoTtilvatelmDiggulgyttahat
va'i utne tuktukt'ishushukuko`g tuk go`go`o`gwgaga
ggsngngsbd [gugulaNexebidi]

http://www.boheme-magazine.net

On Wednesday 07 January 2004 02:01 am, czhang23@... wrote:
> In a message dated 2004:01:07 02:13:27 AM, clumma@... writes:
> >I've voted twice in my life. Once for Ross Perot in
> >1996 on the off chance he would get in and bring the
> >system crashing down
>
> a la the anarcho-punk: Don't Vote, Vomit!
>
> >and once in the California Recall,
> >because there was a candidate I actually liked and
> >there was a possibility of a "non-strategic" vote (you
> >Could vote on a candidate without voting yes on recall).
> >I resolved not to reveal the candidate's name to anyone
> >(or did I once slip up here?), so don't ask. I have no
> >plans to vote in the future.
>
> Me either.

As if there is *no* difference between Bush and, say Dean?
People who don't vote shouuld have *no right* to complain.
And if you don't like the choices, make your own party.

> "Free Markets do not Make for Free Minds. The Market always
> Dictates!" - anarchist critique of Libertarianism's advocacy of the
> ultra-conservative idea of the ultra-capitalistic "Free Market"
>
> everything I know is what is what I have been sold
>
> "Capitalism is Organized Crime" - anarchist saying

Think about it-you live in a country that you can write this, with your name
on it, and not worry about a Gestapo taking you away to a prison camp in the
middle of the night.

If you don't think this is true, then you are a fool for being so publicly
vocal, no?

That being said, yes, there are things that should be changed 'bout this
country--from within the system--that's why I vote. I really believe that
'fashionable cynics and anarchists' have spread enough of this anti-vote
garbage to the mass-media, MTV-minded, rappers and pop-droids, and have
fucked it up for those who would otherwise vote, and those of us who *do*
vote.

And the irony is--the joke's on you. The right-wing minority are laughing
their asses off at the sheer idiocy of these 'fashion trends' among todays
'young leftists'. Ideas like yours, spreading like a cultural virus among the
thoughtless youth, who do what their neighbor does to remain 'hip', are the
precise reason we have people like Dick Cheney in office. 'I will not vote'
is a calling card for 'Ain't I soooo cool and cynical', which is ultimately,
a fashion statement....'Cause that's what it is--you are living in the
ultimate Capitalist TV commercial on MTV to think what you think. Che Guevara
meant it---you merely pose it, and the camera goes 'click', and they publish
it in some gangsta rap magazine for the Gap.

> MENE MENE TEKEL UPARSHIN
>
> << numbered numbered weighed divided>>
>
> "The Lord has numbered the number of your days and brought them to an end.
> You have been weighed in the balance and found wanting. Your kingdom will
> be divided between the Medes and the Persians." (Note the resemblance of
> "Persians" to "uparshin".)
>
> You & your Imperialistic, Decadent Civilization has been Counted &
> Counted Again, Weighed, is found severely Lacking-&-Wanting... It will be
> Divided & Torn-Apart/Asunder from Outside and from Within
>
> "Babylon sistem, Roman' vampire em-pire!
> Jah take Babylon aen Mammon down
> Jah thro dey throne aen crown down!" - Strong-Arm Prophets

Who weighs? Who threats?

> >I wish I could explain why I don't vote in a way you'd
> >understand, and I *have* tried. I guess one way to say
> >it is that I choose to contribute to my country, which
> >I love, in other ways.
>
> LOYALTY DEMANDS DISSENT
>
> friends don't let friends vote fascist

Puhleasse....you're letting your knee-jerk Berkeley-isms shine. You have been
systematically brainwashed if you actually believe this stuff.

You confuse clever quips with truth, which is always way more subtle and
delicate.

> "...some officers are just not worth walkin' Point for...
> so I Harass the Brass or Frag his Ass!...Tyrannicide is just much an
> act of Patriotism as War Crimes are Treason against Humanity..." -
> decrypted email from one of my spec war soldier friends in Afghanistan
>
> >Ultimately it's not about what country I live in, but
> >what reality. I'm slowly coming to realize that others
> >do not necessarily view reality as a figment of their
> >imaginations, in a sense. On the other hand, they often
> >believe in God, or something equally mystical.
>
> I much prefer the terms "numinousity" and "spirituality"
> (as in: Religion is for those who are afraid of Hell - spirituality
> is for those who - hardfought and tenacious - have been to Hell and
> back...) Now I can't stomach unscientific New Age crap (i.e. pyramid power
> to faith healing, etc. even acupuncture does hold water with either me or
> science), that's _mystical_ mumbo jumbo to me...

Now you're talking...and we're on the same page!!!

Lose the 'dippy hippy' shit, and we see eye-to-eye!

>
> > Seems bizzare to me
>
> I like bizarre ;) ... part of the reasons I like both the Yang of
> Hinduism and Yin of the Cthulhu Mythos... and also Panentheism and Chaos
> Theory...

'Chaos Theory' is one of those terms people just toss off without
understanding, like some kind of vague, hip, 'new culture' mantra.
That's not what you're doing here, is it? It has a true scientific meaning,
and we shouldn't alow it to go the way of 'Relativity Theory' which, thanks
to the ignorant general public, now means 'it's all relative'.

Cheers,
Aaron.
--
OCEAN, n. A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made
for man -- who has no gills. -Ambrose Bierce 'The Devils Dictionary'

>> I have no plans to vote in the future.
> >
> > Me either.
//
> People who don't vote shouuld have *no right* to complain.

Complain about what?

> And if you don't like the choices, make your own party.

It's not about the choices, for me.

-Carl

In a message dated 2004:01:07 10:36:46 PM, the Lummanescent One writes in
response to Msr. SSzpak, esq.:

>>> I have no plans to vote in the future.
>
>> > Me either.
>
>> People who don't vote shouuld have *no right* to complain.

Hmmm, sounds like ya are one of 'em Prescriptivist types... Like thee ol'
sayin goes: Just who in thee sacre bleu blazes died und made ye bloody God?
But don't take this as a condemnation, but a rhetorical 3rd degree- style
question with blackjack... I respect your beliefs, I question them 'cuz I
question me own constantly - one highly instructive way I see beyond me own
self-central _Weltanschauung_ (& delusions of me Godhood;)

"I'd never dare attack anyone who doesn't think the way I do. Thought is the
property of the person who has it. No one else has a right to even touch it."
- Erik Satie

>> And if you don't like the choices, make your own party.
>
>It's not about the choices, for me.

Do we have any choices really? Shit Happens... and only Control Freaks (&
Power Trip Addicts) are in denial of this fact...that there is no such thing
as control over one's own life (& that of others)

I lied. I do vote: Green Party and Experimental Party. (& on occasions
for the sheer mischief of wanting to watch shit happen & shit hit the fan, I
vote for the Worst Possible Choice...)

Oh and I have never been a punk or a hippy... I have tons more friends
amongst active and retired military and "intelligence" (both foreign and
domestic) than punks or hippies. Or "mainstream" Leftists...

Punks hate me for questioning their "anarchist life-style posing." Most
have never _reaaally_ read Bakunin or Kropotkin or even Tolstoy! Or even
William S. Burroughs! (Do they _reaaally_ read at all?)

Hippies hate me for my "hardcore" military and paramilitary connections &
my militant as Hell refusal to be "nice," "cool" or "mellow."
Like the punks, I think these hippies lack "spine" or real
"principle(s)." Would your average punk or hippy - or for that matter your average
squeamish, pain-avoidin' American - willingly crawl thru broken glass and fire to
merely keep a "trivial" promise or on "mere principles"? Slow to make 'em, fast to
keep 'em, ya know... and friendship and kinship _is_ all about blood ;)
Like most hard-fought*/hard-boiled Taoists (and martial artists/combat
artists/true warriors), I am a "provisional pacifist" and will admit that I have
done verrry shockin' extreme things (like cut-off, roasted and ate a man's
finger over a more-than-monetary debt he owed some of my friends)...
"By Any Means Necessary, Possible and Imaginable!" has it's Dark Side & I
freely admit this w/o "guilty" or overmuch pride...

* I was born metropolitan London England and lived there till I was 5,
but grew up Sino-British for the most part in a small southern suburb in redneck
Texas... I not only survived TX, I survived 9 Southern-style
"blood-grudges".... so _you_ go figger...

Your [stereo]typical Leftists and Berkeley-ites hate me for not
supporting "popular/national struggles" (i.e. PLO) and other such poli-sci trends.
{Hey, I am a "conservative" Anarchist . . . how can I - in good conscience -
actively support _any_ form of Nation-Statism or Top-Down, Trick.le-Down hierarchy?}

So... punkies, hippiedippies and knee-jerkin' Lefties find my
Pan-Asianism, Panentheism and Polymathism "alienating" 0_o?
VIVE VERFREMDUNGSEFFEKT, BABY!!! {Entschuldigen Sie mein schlechtes
Deutsch...}

enuff said, never enuff ever done...

---
Hanuman Zhang, _Gomi no sensei_ [Master of junk]

"...So what is life for? Life is for beauty and substance and sound and
colour; and even those are often forbidden by law [socio-cultural conventions].
. .Why not be free and live your own life? Why follow other people's rules
and live to please others?..." ~Lieh-Tzu/Liezi, Taoist Sage (c. 450- 375 BCE)

"Taoism in a nutshell: Shit Happens. Roll with the Punches. Hang 10 - Go
with the Flow!" - anon. California surfer/Beatnik, circa late 1950's/early
1960's

>(like cut-off, roasted and ate a man's
>finger over a more-than-monetary debt he owed some of my
>friends)...

You really did?

-Carl

>>> And if you don't like the choices, make your own party.
>>
>>It's not about the choices, for me.
>
>Do we have any choices really?

I have the choice not to participate in a form of human
interaction/discourse which I find unacceptable.

> >>> And if you don't like the choices, make your own party.
> >>
> >>It's not about the choices, for me.
> >
> >Do we have any choices really?
>
> I have the choice not to participate in a form of human
> interaction/discourse which I find unacceptable.

Perhaps some words from The Police will help:

There is no political solution
To our troubled evolution
Our so-called leaders speak
With words they try to jail ya
They subjugate the meek
But it's the rhetoric of failure
We are spirits in the material world
etc.

-C.

hi Carl and Dante,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" <dante@i...> wrote:

> I'm happy to report that I am slightly left of the Dalai Lama. :-)
>
> Dante
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl Lumma [mailto:clumma@y...]
> > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 6:58 PM
> > To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [metatuning] The Political Compass
> >
> >
> > http://www.politicalcompass.org/
> >
> > My result was just slightly left and just slightly libertarian.

i ended up all the way down near the bottom left corner,
further left and further libertarian than both the Dalai Lama
and Gandhi.

here are my scores:

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.10

-monz

In a message dated 2004:01:08 11:59:20 PM, Lummanescent One writes:

>> >Do we have any choices really?
>
>> I have the choice not to participate in a form of human
>> interaction/discourse which I find unacceptable.

Like I said we sometimes have no choice even in this matter of choosing.
Sometimes just hafta deal, ya know, one way or another, hook or crook, etc...

>Perhaps some words from The Police will help:
>
>There is no political solution
>To our troubled evolution
>Our so-called leaders speak
>With words they try to jail ya
>They subjugate the meek
>But it's the rhetoric of failure
>We are spirits in the material world
>
>etc.

niceness... BTW I like the melody & lyrics to "King of Pain"...

---
Hanuman Zhang, _Gomi no sensei_ [Master of junk]

"To live is to scrounge, taking what you can in order to survive. So,
since living is scrounging, the result of our efforts is to amass a pile of
rubbish." - Chuang Tzu/Zhuangzi, China, 4th Century BCE

"The most beautiful order is a heap of sweepings piled up at random." -
Heraclitus, Greece, 5th Century BCE

"...So what is life for? Life is for beauty and substance and sound and
colour; and even those are often forbidden by law [socio-cultural conventions].
. .Why not be free and live your own life? Why follow other people's rules
and live to please others?..." ~Lieh-Tzu/Liezi, Taoist Sage (c. 450- 375 BCE)

"Taoism in a nutshell: Shit Happens. Roll with the Punches. Hang 10 - Go
with the Flow!" - anon. California surfer/Beatnik, circa late 1950's/early
1960's

"I'd never dare attack anyone who doesn't think the way I do. Thought is the
property of the person who has it. No one else has a right to even touch it."
- Erik Satie

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." -
Albert Schweitzer
Please: Cats are not disposable. Adopt and love your cat for life...

"Life'n'art, art'n'life. There is _no_ separation. Each is a manifestation of
every aspect of the other. This is a difficult game... A difficult game to
play. It seems, to me, like the only game that needs playing at the moment." -
Warren Burt

hi hanuman,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2004:01:07 01:51:19 AM, clumma@y... writes:
>
> >> Carl, what country have you been living in?? :)
> >
> > The "People's Republic of Berkeley". :)
>
> Oaktown/Funktown here... right by the Lake... down the
> street from the Bakery.
>
> Wow! I didn't realize I had an on-line music
> teacher/pal _that_ close by...
> ::shakes head of dizzy spell:: I thought Chalmers
> and Grady were the closest by to me... :)

and there are a whole bunch of us microtonalists down here
in San Diego (just a bit further from you than Chalmers)
... altho i'm the only one on the internet. the rest
of them seem to be very wary of computers, and prefer
to build their own physical instruments a la Partch.

-monz

hi hanuman,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:

> <snip> ... I am a "provisional pacifist" and will admit
> that I have done verrry shockin' extreme things (like
> cut-off, roasted and ate a man's finger over a
> more-than-monetary debt he owed some of my friends)...

please help me to understand how you could do such a
thing and still refer to yourself as any kind of "pacifist",
even with a qualifier.

-monz

hi Carl,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

> > >>> And if you don't like the choices, make your own party.
> > >>
> > >>It's not about the choices, for me.
> > >
> > >Do we have any choices really?
> >
> > I have the choice not to participate in a form of human
> > interaction/discourse which I find unacceptable.
>
> Perhaps some words from The Police will help:
>
> There is no political solution
> To our troubled evolution
> Our so-called leaders speak
> With words they try to jail ya
> They subjugate the meek
> But it's the rhetoric of failure
> We are spirits in the material world
> etc.

and as Robert Christgau (great Village Voice rock critic)
wrote in his mostly-negative review of that album:

"But we are also matter in the material world,
which is why things get fucked up."

-monz

> and as Robert Christgau (great Village Voice rock critic)
> wrote in his mostly-negative review of that album:

Oh, whadda dick. What, I wonder, was he reviewing positively
in 80's rock?

-Carl

hi Carl,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> > and as Robert Christgau (great Village Voice rock critic)
> > wrote in his mostly-negative review of that album:
>
> Oh, whadda dick. What, I wonder, was he reviewing positively
> in 80's rock?

i can actually quote his top fave albums by year for
all of the '70s and '80s ... when/if i remember to
dig his books out of my garage.

i referred to his book on the 1970s *far* more often
than the one on the 1980s (which i only bought much
later ... umm ... after the 1980s had happened.
i guess by then i really wasn't interested in relying
on his reviews anymore.)

so i remember a whole lot more of what he wrote about
1970s music than about 1980s.

i do remember that for 1970 Van Morrison's _Moondance_
and Derek and the Dominos _Layla_ were right at the top
(and i agree 100%), and that he did like the earlier Police
albums before the one with "Spirits in the Material World".

Christgau generally had little tolerance for prog-rock
(he thought Yes, ELP, and Rush sucked), so most likely
a big part of the reason he liked the Police less and
less was the growing complexity of their music as
time went on.

one might say that he generally preferred stuff that
was more corporeal than abstract. he loved gritty
blues albums and flat-out bar-band rock, as well as
artsy-fartsy rock with literary pretensions as long
as it still had a good beat.

-monz

In a message dated 2004:01:09 10:35:49 AM, monz writes re: my infamous
finger-choppin'& eattin' incident:

>please help me to understand how you could do such a
>thing and still refer to yourself as any kind of "pacifist",
>even with a qualifier.

It was a calculated act of aggression. Wiley strategy: knowin' most of
this people were refugees from the slums of Mexico City, El Salvador and
Guatemala etc. and thus have seen horrific acts before (sometimes on a day-to-day
basis) - AND - I had to do _something_ pronto before I got the short end of a
very sharp stick from both them and my fiendish violence-prone friends.

In an over-riding subculture of violence, there are _no_ rationales,
there are no reasons or explanations, it just _is_... thus I have lil guilt over
this, I did what was necessary for all in this hairy situation: I saved face (&
then some), got my enforcer fiends and bosses off riding my ass about the way
I was handling accounts, and saved this debtor's life by making him a
_bloody_ example for all the community know about.

Yes I could have been a priest-like person instead, but the reality of
the situation I was in at that time precluded such gallantry, caring thought or
even expenditure of time.
And I was dope-sick too... and addicts will do practically _any_ thing
for their next fix just to even feel even slightly "normal"...

---|-----|--------|-------------|---------------------|
Hanuman Zhang, musical mad scientist
"Space is a practiced place." -- Michel de Certeau
"Space is the Place for the Human Race." -- William S. Burroughs

"... simple, chaotic, anarchic and menacing.... This is what people of today
have lost and need most - the ability to experience permanent bodily and
mental ecstasy, to be a receiving station for messages howling by on the ether from
other worlds and nonhuman entities, those peculiar short-wave messages which
come in static-free in the secret pleasure center in the brain." - Slava Ranko
(Donald L. Philippi)

The German word for "noise" _Geräusch_ is derived from _rauschen_ "the
sound of the wind," related to _Rausch_ "ecstasy, intoxication" hinting at some
of the possible aesthetic, bodily effects of noise in music. In Japanese
Romaji: _uchu_ = "universe"... _uchoten_ = "ecstasty," "rapture"..._uchujin_ =
[space] alien!

"When you're trying to do something you should feel absolutely alone, like a
spark in the blackness of the universe."-Xenakis

"For twenty-five centuries, Western knowledge has tried to look upon the
world. It has failed to understand that the world is not for the beholding. It
is for the hearing. It is not legible, but audible. ... Music is a herald,
for change is inscribed in noise faster than it transforms society. ...
Listening to music is listening to all noise, realizing that its appropriation and
control is a reflection of power, that is essentially political." - Jacques
Attali, _Noise: The Political Economy of Music_

"The sky and its stars make music in you." - Dendera, Egypt wall
inscription

"Sound as an isolated object of reproduction, call it our collective memory
bank... Any sound can be you." - DJ Spooky that Subliminal Kid (a.k.a. Paul D.
Miller)

"Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out."
--Arthur C. Clarke, _The Nine Billion Names of God_

hi Carl,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> hi Carl,
>
>
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> > > and as Robert Christgau (great Village Voice rock critic)
> > > wrote in his mostly-negative review of that album:
> >
> > Oh, whadda dick. What, I wonder, was he reviewing positively
> > in 80's rock?
>
>
>
> i can actually quote his top fave albums by year for
> all of the '70s and '80s ... when/if i remember to
> dig his books out of my garage.
>
>
> i referred to his book on the 1970s *far* more often
> than the one on the 1980s (which i only bought much
> later ... umm ... after the 1980s had happened.
> i guess by then i really wasn't interested in relying
> on his reviews anymore.)
>
> so i remember a whole lot more of what he wrote about
> 1970s music than about 1980s.
>
>
>
> i do remember that for 1970 Van Morrison's _Moondance_
> and Derek and the Dominos _Layla_ were right at the top
> (and i agree 100%), and that he did like the earlier Police
> albums before the one with "Spirits in the Material World".
>
> Christgau generally had little tolerance for prog-rock
> (he thought Yes, ELP, and Rush sucked), so most likely
> a big part of the reason he liked the Police less and
> less was the growing complexity of their music as
> time went on.
>
> one might say that he generally preferred stuff that
> was more corporeal than abstract. he loved gritty
> blues albums and flat-out bar-band rock, as well as
> artsy-fartsy rock with literary pretensions as long
> as it still had a good beat.

i have Christgau's books in hand now. most of what i
wrote there is pretty accurate, except ... umm ... how
badly i misremembered his review of the Police album.
he says "sticky" and not "fucked up", and also he rates
Police albums progressively better (not progressively worse)
up to 1986, where his list ends with _Every Breath You Take:
The Singles_.

so in fairness to Christgau, i took his comment out of
context and then you called him a dick. so let's give
him a little more space ...

Christgau's books (and Village Voice column) were named
and intended to be a "Consumers Guide" to buying albums.
his concept was that most people only have a limited
amount of money to spend on records/CDs, and so rather
than write two or three long detailed reviews, he would
write one-paragraph summaries of each album and then
give it a grade from A+ to E-. the idea was that if
you agreed with his opinion you wouldn't waste money
on anything less than a B-, unless his write-up made it
sound interesting enough to you to give it a shot.

agreeing with his opinion is the tricky part, but he
expounds on his musical preferences to great length in
the introductions to both books, to give the reader a
fair chance of deciding how closely his and the reader's
opinion will jive.

here's Christgau's review of the Police album:

>> The Police: _Ghost In The Machine_ (A&M '81).
>>
>> It's pointless to deny that they make the chops work
>> for the common good -- both their trickiness and
>> their simplicity provide consistent pleasure here.
>> But with drummer, manager, and booking agent all
>> scions of a CIA honcho, I have my doubts about their
>> standing as a progressive force. Whether you're
>> following in the old man's footsteps, offing the
>> motherfucker, or striving for a livable compromise,
>> roots like that leave you twisted, if only to the
>> tune of a middlebrow cliche like Sting's "There is
>> no political olution". In the kindest construction,
>> say their politics are as astute, liberal, and
>> well-meaning as those f Pete "Won't Get Fooled Again"
>> Townshend, who also needs reminding that we're not
>> just spirits in the material world -- we're also
>> matter in the material world, which is why things
>> get sticky. B+.

for the comparative view, here are the 26 best of his
list of top albums for 1981, with X's _Wild Gift_
as his best album of the year:

X: _Wild Gift_
Ian Dury: _Juke Box Dury_
King Sunny Ade and His African Beats: _The Message_
_Greatest Rap Hits vol. 2_ (Sugarhill)
Gang of Four: _Solid Gold_
The English Beat: _Wha'ppen_
Elvis Costello and the Attractions: _Trust_
Gang of Four: _Andother Day/Another Dollar_
_Phases of the Moon: Traditional Chinese Music_ (Columbia)
Human Switchboard: _Who's Landing In My Hangar?_
Al Green: _Higher Plane_
Psychedelic Furs: _Talk Talk Talk_
The Specials: _Ghost Town/Why?/Friday Night Saturday Morning_
Black Uhuru: _Red_
Black Flag: _Damaged_
Gary Stewart: _Greatest Hits_
Tom Verlaine: _Dreamtime_
Chic: _Take It Off_
Red Crayola With Art & Language: _Kangaroo?_
Funkadelic: _The Electric Spanking of War Babies_
Penguin Cafe Orchestra: _Penguin Cafe Orchestra_
Prince: _Controversy_
Yoko Ono: _Season of Glass_
The Clash: _Sandinista!_
Tom Tom Club: _Tom Tom Club_
The Blasters: _The Blasters_

i took the list this far just to get in some of the
more well-known albums, such as Prince, The Clash, and
Tom Tom Club.

a bit further down the list for 1981 appear the following
biggies, in Christgau's order, but i've left out many
in between:

Blondie: _The Best of Blondie_
Rolling Stones: _Tattoo You_ [hailed as *the* big comeback]
Teena Marie: _It Must Be Magic_
Rick James: _Street Songs_ [remember "Super Freak"?]

i'm not familiar with a lot of his picks, but i did like
X a lot at the time, _Trust_ is a great one from Elvis C.,
and the King Sunny Ade album has always been one of my faves.

to give you an idea of his choices for other years, here
is a sampling of the top few for several years:

1980

The Clash: _London Calling_
Prince: _Dirty Mind_
Talking Heads: _Remain in Light_
Chic: _Real People_
_Wanna Buy a Bridge?_ (Rough Trade)
John Lennon/Yoko Ono: _Double Fantasy_

[i totally and absolutely agree with all of these 1980 picks.]

1981 -- see above

1982

Ornette Coleman: _Of Human Feelings_
Marshall Crenshaw: _Marshall Crenshaw_
George Clinton: _Computer Games_
Flipper: _The Generic Album_
Richard & Linda Thompson: _Shoot Out the Lights_
Kid Creole and the Coconuts: _Wise Guy_
Donald Fagen: _The Nightfly_

1983

DeBarge: _In a Special Way_
Marshall Crenshaw: _Field Day_
_African Music_ (Vertigo)
The Blasters: _Non Fiction_
James Blood Ulmer: _Odyssey_
DFX2: _Emotion_
Lou Reed: _Legendary Hearts_
Hüsker Dü: _Metal Circus_
George Clinton: _You Shouldn't-Nuf Bit Fish_
Cyndi Lauper: _She's So Unusual_

[sheesh ... what ever happened to Marshall Crenshaw?
he was *good*!]

1984

Bruce Springsteen: _Born In The USA_
The Replacements: _Let It Be_
Laurie Anderson: _United States Live_
Parlaiment: _Parlaiment's Greatest Hits_
Bob Marley and the Wailers: _Legend_
John Lennon/Yoko Ono: _Milk and Honey_

[of course everyone here knows that i put Springsteen at
number one here too.]

and Christgau's number one for 1988 was Public Enemy:
_It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back_, which
i rank right up there with Hendrix's _Are You Experienced_
as a totally in-your-face assault on conventional ideas
about pop music (and also as a great work of art).

wow, this is probably the most time i've ever spent with
his book on 1980s music. i used the 1970s book far, far
more often, actually building my pop-music record collection
to a large degree on his recommendations. (he included
his 1980 list in the 1970s book, so that's pretty much
where my use of his reviews ended.)

REFERENCES
----------

_Christgau's Record Guide: Rock Albums of the Seventies_
Paperback, 1981, Ticknor & Fields
ISBN 0-88919-026-X, 472 pages

http://www.robertchristgau.com/bk-cg70s.php

_Christgau's Record Guide: The '80s_
Paperback, 1990, Pantheon Books
ISBN 0-679-73015-X, 514 pages

http://www.robertchristgau.com/bk-cg80s.php

crap ... *after* i spent all that time typing in those
lists, i found out that he has them up on his website:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/bk-cg70/lists.php

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/bk-cg80/a-1980.php

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> here's Christgau's review of the Police album:
>
> >> The Police: _Ghost In The Machine_ (A&M '81).
> >>
> >> It's pointless to deny that they make the chops work
> >> for the common good -- both their trickiness and
> >> their simplicity provide consistent pleasure here.
> >> But with drummer, manager, and booking agent all
> >> scions of a CIA honcho, I have my doubts about their
> >> standing as a progressive force. Whether you're
> >> following in the old man's footsteps, offing the
> >> motherfucker, or striving for a livable compromise,
> >> roots like that leave you twisted, if only to the
> >> tune of a middlebrow cliche like Sting's "There is
> >> no political olution". In the kindest construction,
> >> say their politics are as astute, liberal, and
> >> well-meaning as those of Pete "Won't Get Fooled Again"
> >> Townshend, who also needs reminding that we're not
> >> just spirits in the material world -- we're also
> >> matter in the material world, which is why things
> >> get sticky. B+.

i have no idea what he means by the CIA reference.
can anyone fill in details on Police background info?

-monz

the actual reviews of the Police albums are
right in the middle of this page:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_chap.php?k=P&bk=80

[especially useful since i typed it in quickly and made typos]

i'm still in disbelief that Christgau has uploaded these
entire books to his website. what a fantastic free resource.

-monz

to put further perspective on Christgau's reviews, here's
a webpage by one of his admirers which gives a "personal
Greatest Hits", quoting Christgau's review and grade and
then giving his own after it.

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/bk-fest/miles.php

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> hi Carl,

> [sheesh ... what ever happened to Marshall Crenshaw?
> he was *good*!]

he has a new album out.

> here's Christgau's review of the Police album:
>
> >> The Police: _Ghost In The Machine_ (A&M '81).
> >>
> >> It's pointless to deny that they make the chops work
> >> for the common good -- both their trickiness and
> >> their simplicity provide consistent pleasure here.
> >> But with drummer, manager, and booking agent all
> >> scions of a CIA honcho, I have my doubts about their
> >> standing as a progressive force. Whether you're
> >> following in the old man's footsteps, offing the
> >> motherfucker, or striving for a livable compromise,
> >> roots like that leave you twisted, if only to the
> >> tune of a middlebrow cliche like Sting's "There is
> >> no political olution". In the kindest construction,
> >> say their politics are as astute, liberal, and
> >> well-meaning as those f Pete "Won't Get Fooled Again"
> >> Townshend, who also needs reminding that we're not
> >> just spirits in the material world -- we're also
> >> matter in the material world, which is why things
> >> get sticky. B+.

Well this is much better. I also don't consider the
Police a progressive force (although I guess for the
80's, they were). I think Ghost in the Machine is
the best Police album I've heard. I must say I do
find it odd to be rating a compilation album above an
actual album. Their politics (and style) seem to be
directly derived from Reggae, for better or worse.

> X: _Wild Gift_
> Ian Dury: _Juke Box Dury_
> King Sunny Ade and His African Beats: _The Message_
> _Greatest Rap Hits vol. 2_ (Sugarhill)
> Gang of Four: _Solid Gold_
> The English Beat: _Wha'ppen_

Haven't heard any of these.

> Elvis Costello and the Attractions: _Trust_

I like Elvis Costello. He's even worked with Partch's
instruments! I dunno Trust. It seems he's one of those
artists who's catalog is in disarray, with compilations
replacing the availability of the albums from which they
were compiled...

> Gang of Four: _Andother Day/Another Dollar_
> _Phases of the Moon: Traditional Chinese Music_ (Columbia)
> Human Switchboard: _Who's Landing In My Hangar?_
> Al Green: _Higher Plane_
> Psychedelic Furs: _Talk Talk Talk_
> The Specials: _Ghost Town/Why?/Friday Night Saturday Morning_
> Black Uhuru: _Red_
> Black Flag: _Damaged_
> Gary Stewart: _Greatest Hits_
> Tom Verlaine: _Dreamtime_
> Chic: _Take It Off_
> Red Crayola With Art & Language: _Kangaroo?_
> Funkadelic: _The Electric Spanking of War Babies_
> Penguin Cafe Orchestra: _Penguin Cafe Orchestra_
> Prince: _Controversy_
> Yoko Ono: _Season of Glass_
> The Clash: _Sandinista!_
> Tom Tom Club: _Tom Tom Club_
> The Blasters: _The Blasters_

Wow, I haven't heard any of these. Then again, 80's
rock is generally a morrass of crap. He misses Sky,
though, that's for sure.

> a bit further down the list for 1981 appear the following
> biggies, in Christgau's order, but i've left out many
> in between:
>
> Blondie: _The Best of Blondie_
> Rolling Stones: _Tattoo You_ [hailed as *the* big comeback]
> Teena Marie: _It Must Be Magic_
> Rick James: _Street Songs_ [remember "Super Freak"?]

I remember hearing about it when somebody else sampled it.
Was it MC Hammer?

> to give you an idea of his choices for other years, here
> is a sampling of the top few for several years:
>
> 1980
>
> The Clash: _London Calling_
> Prince: _Dirty Mind_
> Talking Heads: _Remain in Light_

I was wondering when he was going to get to Talking Heads.
Phish covered this album, and I then got the original.
Great stuff.

> 1984
>
> Bruce Springsteen: _Born In The USA_
> The Replacements: _Let It Be_
> Laurie Anderson: _United States Live_
> Parlaiment: _Parlaiment's Greatest Hits_
> Bob Marley and the Wailers: _Legend_
> John Lennon/Yoko Ono: _Milk and Honey_
>
> [of course everyone here knows that i put Springsteen at
> number one here too.]

Yeah, the Boss rocked it with that one.

-Carl

hi Carl,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

> Well this is much better. I also don't consider the
> Police a progressive force (although I guess for the
> 80's, they were). I think Ghost in the Machine is
> the best Police album I've heard.

my favorite is probably _Synchronicity_:
the tital track,
"King of Pain",
"Wrapped Around Your Finger",
"Every Breath You Take",
"Mother"
-- wow, great stuff.

> I must say I do find it odd to be rating a compilation
> album above an actual album.

i tried to give a good description of Christgau's objectives.
he was writing a "consumer guide", so often, if he thinks
an artist has good tracks spread over several albums and
enough poor tracks on those albums to lower their grade,
he'll recommend the compilation instead.

> > X: _Wild Gift_
> > Ian Dury: _Juke Box Dury_
> > King Sunny Ade and His African Beats: _The Message_
> > _Greatest Rap Hits vol. 2_ (Sugarhill)
> > Gang of Four: _Solid Gold_
> > The English Beat: _Wha'ppen_
>
> Haven't heard any of these.

you're missing out, bro! if nothing else, hunt down
the X and Ade albums.

> > Gang of Four: _Andother Day/Another Dollar_
> > _Phases of the Moon: Traditional Chinese Music_ (Columbia)
> > Human Switchboard: _Who's Landing In My Hangar?_
> > Al Green: _Higher Plane_
> > Psychedelic Furs: _Talk Talk Talk_
> > The Specials: _Ghost Town/Why?/Friday Night Saturday Morning_
> > Black Uhuru: _Red_
> > Black Flag: _Damaged_
> > Gary Stewart: _Greatest Hits_
> > Tom Verlaine: _Dreamtime_
> > Chic: _Take It Off_
> > Red Crayola With Art & Language: _Kangaroo?_
> > Funkadelic: _The Electric Spanking of War Babies_
> > Penguin Cafe Orchestra: _Penguin Cafe Orchestra_
> > Prince: _Controversy_
> > Yoko Ono: _Season of Glass_
> > The Clash: _Sandinista!_
> > Tom Tom Club: _Tom Tom Club_
> > The Blasters: _The Blasters_
>
> Wow, I haven't heard any of these.

i'm amazed that you've never heard _Sandinista!_
-- The Clash's ultimate tour de force.

the Tom Tom Club and Prince albums were also pretty
big, and got a lot of radio play.

then again, maybe my age is clouding my perspective ...

> > a bit further down the list for 1981 appear the following
> > biggies, in Christgau's order, but i've left out many
> > in between:
> >
> > Blondie: _The Best of Blondie_
> > Rolling Stones: _Tattoo You_ [hailed as *the* big comeback]
> > Teena Marie: _It Must Be Magic_
> > Rick James: _Street Songs_ [remember "Super Freak"?]
>
> I remember hearing about it when somebody else sampled it.
> Was it MC Hammer?

yep. that fantastic riff from "Super Freak" became
the fantastic riff to "You Can't Touch This".

and again, if you don't know _Tattoo You_ you're
missing out on the most important album the Stones
released in *years*.

> > to give you an idea of his choices for other years, here
> > is a sampling of the top few for several years:
> >
> > 1980
> >
> > The Clash: _London Calling_
> > Prince: _Dirty Mind_
> > Talking Heads: _Remain in Light_
>
> I was wondering when he was going to get to Talking Heads.
> Phish covered this album, and I then got the original.
> Great stuff.

the Heads's _Fear of Music_ was my favorite album for
a long time, and _Remain in Light_ was a very close 2nd.

_London Calling_ still blows my mind, after more than
two decades. if you want to buy only one Clash album,
that's the one to get. that was the album that had
everyone thinking that '80s pop-music was *not* going
to be a morass of crap. unfortunately, _Sandinista!_
(the Clash's next release) proved to be too big and
all-encompassing a follow-up, they lost their focus
after that, and were finished by 1984.

... plus, the whole new-wave techno thing came in
right after that and changed everything.

-monz

The scary part is that you guys value his opinion!

Wacky.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

> and again, if you don't know _Tattoo You_ you're
> missing out on the most important album the Stones
> released in *years*.

...can't say I care much for the Stones.

> the Heads's _Fear of Music_ was my favorite album for
> a long time, and _Remain in Light_ was a very close 2nd.

Thanks for the tip.

> _London Calling_ still blows my mind, after more than
> two decades. if you want to buy only one Clash album,
> that's the one to get.

And again.

> ... plus, the whole new-wave techno thing came in
> right after that and changed everything.
>
>
>
> -monz

In a message dated 2004:01:09 07:36:01 PM, monz writes:

>crap ... *after* i spent all that time typing in those
>[Christgau] lists, i found out that he has them up on his website

ROTFLMAO well at least ya had a typing exercise...

I kinda like Lester Bangs - the Philip K. Dick of pop music critics -
more my self... and David Toop the William Gibson of same (& the
Bruce Sterling of improv and improv theory, practise & critique... ;)

---///// __/_//_/ __/_// in the yera of 2004 CE,
year 4702 of the Huangdi era,
Year of the Wooden Monkey, _Jia-Shen_...

Nom de Guerre: Hanuman "Stitch/626" Zhang
AIN Resistance partisan code name: "Z23-4C"
WOGeR (Wiley Oriental Gentleman/Rogue)
BBC (BritishBornChinaman)
Avatar of Sun Wu K'ung, a.k.a. Sun Wukong, a.k.a _Ma-Lau_ ("Monkey
King")
a.k.a. "TricksterGod of the Glorious Anti-Imperialist Chinese Boxers"
http://www.uglychinese.org/war.htm
¡¡¡ TricksterShapeShifterIncarnate !!! >^..^< ';'
;P~~~
"one o' dem best-est & bright-est a' de bottom o' de barrel"
<A HREF="http://www.friendster.com/user.jsp">Friendster - zHANgster</A>

=> om hung hanumatay rudratmakai hung phat <=
mantra to Hanuman the Hindu Monkey TricksterGod

==> Ko nahi janat hai jag mein kapi, sankat mochan naam tiharo <==
[Who does not know that in this world oh monkey, thy name is one which
liberates one out of all problems].

"Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist...
Imitation is suicide." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I rather be whole than good." - Carl Jung

>Do I contradict myself?
>Very well then, I contradict myself.
>I am large, I contain multitudes.
> --Walt Whitman, _Leaves of Grass_

I Am A Bird, don't try
to tell my wings where to fly.

<= thee prIs ov eXistenZ iz aetern'l warfaer 'N' kreativ playf'llnizz... =>

"Life is all a great joke, but only the brave ever get the point."
- Kenneth Rexroth
googolgigglabyte
goegolgiechelbijt - of - met een vette megagrijns
GoogolGekicherByte
googolrisibyte ===> el byte de la risita de googol
googolrisadinhabyte ===> o byte de risadinha de googol
googolspassoctet
guugoIllolbijt
gugolhihibajt
gugolngisibayt
okukolkikikol
egúgelegigalibaith
kiletstroknolyadgigabaiti
cimacimakekehapi
baitakhakhweifayatrauni
ufi'auayinisuguguluarkhar
pokatra oemadroabhethetre
inarevuta yhiyhayhake nawyo
AnekoMeppathmoTtilvatelmDiggulgyttahat
va'i utne tuktukt'ishushukuko`g tuk go`go`o`gwgaga
ggsngngsbd [gugulaNexebidi]

hi hanuman,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2004:01:09 07:36:01 PM, monz writes:
>
> >crap ... *after* i spent all that time typing in those
> >[Christgau] lists, i found out that he has them up on his website
>
> ROTFLMAO well at least ya had a typing exercise...
>
> I kinda like Lester Bangs - the Philip K. Dick of
> pop music critics - more my self... and David Toop the
> William Gibson of same (& the Bruce Sterling of improv
> and improv theory, practise & critique... ;)

Lester Bangs was absolutely the most brilliant rock critic
ever -- a real genius. more than anyone else who ever
wrote about the music, he reallly captured its choatic,
exuberant, youthful *spirit*.

did you ever see Cameron Crowe's movie "Almost Famous"?
it chronicles Crowe's beginnings as a teenage rock critic
who got substantial personal support from Bangs, whose
character is one of the main roles in the film.

too bad he died at such a young age, in 1982, from the flu.

here's a webpage with links to lots of stuff about Bangs:

http://www.rockcritics.com/archives_lester_bangs.html

and BTW, Bangs was also from San Diego.

-monz

hi David,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:

> The scary part is that you guys value his opinion!
>
> Wacky.

what's so wacky about that? the guy was given thousands
of records and CDs to review, so if he bothered to play
any of them a second time, then *those* were probably
worth listening to.

since Christgau went thru such effort to make his opinions
and preferences clear, i found his reviews very valuable.
since i knew ahead of time where his and my musical tastes
differed, it was generally pretty easy to gauge the worth
of what he wrote.

in addition, i like his writing style, with big helpings
of acerbic wit and sarcasm. when a lot of pop-music entered
the doldrums in a big way in the mid-70s, his reviews helped
me cut thru a lot of bullshit music and find the real gems.

-monz

In a message dated 2004:01:10 03:21:38 AM, monz writes:

>and BTW, Bangs was also from San Diego.

I am gettin' the distinct feelin' I bein' brain-washed ;) into movin' ta
SD...
and others (improvisers & instrument-builders [& anarchists]) up north in
Seattle also are tryin' hard to "get" me...

---///// __/_//_/ __/_// in the yera of 2004 CE,
year 4702 of the Huangdi era,
Year of the Wooden Monkey, _Jia-Shen_...

Nom de Guerre: Hanuman "Stitch/626" Zhang
AIN Resistance partisan code name: "Z23-4C"
WOGeR (Wiley Oriental Gentleman/Rogue)
BBC (BritishBornChinaman)
Avatar of Sun Wu K'ung, a.k.a. Sun Wukong, a.k.a _Ma-Lau_ ("Monkey
King")
a.k.a. "TricksterGod of the Glorious Anti-Imperialist Chinese Boxers"
http://www.uglychinese.org/war.htm
¡¡¡ TricksterShapeShifterIncarnate !!! >^..^< ';'
;P~~~
"one o' dem best-est & bright-est a' de bottom o' de barrel"
<A HREF="http://www.friendster.com/user.jsp">Friendster - zHANgster</A>

=> om hung hanumatay rudratmakai hung phat <=
mantra to Hanuman the Hindu Monkey TricksterGod

==> Ko nahi janat hai jag mein kapi, sankat mochan naam tiharo <==
[Who does not know that in this world oh monkey, thy name is one which
liberates one out of all problems].

"Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist...
Imitation is suicide." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I rather be whole than good." - Carl Jung

>Do I contradict myself?
>Very well then, I contradict myself.
>I am large, I contain multitudes.
> --Walt Whitman, _Leaves of Grass_

I Am A Bird, don't try
to tell my wings where to fly.

<= thee prIs ov eXistenZ iz aetern'l warfaer 'N' kreativ playf'llnizz... =>

"Life is all a great joke, but only the brave ever get the point."
- Kenneth Rexroth
googolgigglabyte
goegolgiechelbijt - of - met een vette megagrijns
GoogolGekicherByte
googolrisibyte ===> el byte de la risita de googol
googolrisadinhabyte ===> o byte de risadinha de googol
googolspassoctet
guugoIllolbijt
gugolhihibajt
gugolngisibayt
okukolkikikol
egúgelegigalibaith
kiletstroknolyadgigabaiti
cimacimakekehapi
baitakhakhweifayatrauni
ufi'auayinisuguguluarkhar
pokatra oemadroabhethetre
inarevuta yhiyhayhake nawyo
AnekoMeppathmoTtilvatelmDiggulgyttahat
va'i utne tuktukt'ishushukuko`g tuk go`go`o`gwgaga
ggsngngsbd [gugulaNexebidi]

monz wrote:

>hi David,
>
>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
>
> >
>>The scary part is that you guys value his opinion!
>>
>>Wacky.
>> >>
>
>what's so wacky about that? the guy was given thousands
>of records and CDs to review, so if he bothered to play
>any of them a second time, then *those* were probably
>worth listening to.
>
>since Christgau went thru such effort to make his opinions
>and preferences clear, i found his reviews very valuable.
>since i knew ahead of time where his and my musical tastes
>differed, it was generally pretty easy to gauge the worth
>of what he wrote.
>
>in addition, i like his writing style, with big helpings
>of acerbic wit and sarcasm. when a lot of pop-music entered
>the doldrums in a big way in the mid-70s, his reviews helped
>me cut thru a lot of bullshit music and find the real gems.
> >

I wrote him and his "style" of writing years ago. -- * David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

David Beardsley wrote:

>monz wrote:
>
> >
>>hi David,
>>
>>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>>The scary part is that you guys value his opinion!
>>>
>>>Wacky.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>what's so wacky about that? the guy was given thousands
>>of records and CDs to review, so if he bothered to play
>>any of them a second time, then *those* were probably
>>worth listening to.
>>
>>since Christgau went thru such effort to make his opinions
>>and preferences clear, i found his reviews very valuable.
>>since i knew ahead of time where his and my musical tastes
>>differed, it was generally pretty easy to gauge the worth
>>of what he wrote.
>>
>>in addition, i like his writing style, with big helpings
>>of acerbic wit and sarcasm. when a lot of pop-music entered
>>the doldrums in a big way in the mid-70s, his reviews helped
>>me cut thru a lot of bullshit music and find the real gems.
>> >>
>> >>
>
>I wrote him and his "style" of writing years ago. > >
I wrote him off and his "style" of writing years ago.

And now looking at the reviews on that site he isn't too harsh
on some favorites of mine (except for King Crimson), but
I seen too many of his nasty reviews in recent years to give his opinion
much weight.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> hi Carl,
>
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
>
> > Well this is much better. I also don't consider the
> > Police a progressive force (although I guess for the
> > 80's, they were). I think Ghost in the Machine is
> > the best Police album I've heard.
>
>
> my favorite is probably _Synchronicity_:
> the tital track,
> "King of Pain",
> "Wrapped Around Your Finger",
> "Every Breath You Take",
> "Mother"
> -- wow, great stuff.

My two favorite Police songs are "Synchronicity II" off this album,
and "Every Little Thing She Does is Magic", from another one (I
dunno, I just have the 4-CD complete compilation). If you've never
heard the (hypnotic) first ever recording of Every Little Thing She
Does Is Magic which Sting composed on a porta-studio in 1976, I
highly recommend it: it's on an album by Gong bassist Mike Howlett in
which the musicians he recruited were the soon-to-be Police (you
could say he got them together):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001YOP/102-5239280-
4277754?v=glance

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> hi hanuman,
>
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 2004:01:09 07:36:01 PM, monz writes:
> >
> > >crap ... *after* i spent all that time typing in those
> > >[Christgau] lists, i found out that he has them up on his website
> >
> > ROTFLMAO well at least ya had a typing exercise...
> >
> > I kinda like Lester Bangs - the Philip K. Dick of
> > pop music critics - more my self... and David Toop the
> > William Gibson of same (& the Bruce Sterling of improv
> > and improv theory, practise & critique... ;)
>
>
>
> Lester Bangs was absolutely the most brilliant rock critic
> ever -- a real genius. more than anyone else who ever
> wrote about the music, he reallly captured its choatic,
> exuberant, youthful *spirit*.
>
> did you ever see Cameron Crowe's movie "Almost Famous"?
> it chronicles Crowe's beginnings as a teenage rock critic

Cameron Crowe has been one of the few rock critics supportive of Yes,
and in fact when he was at the age that he is depicted at in the
movie, he spent quite a bit of time with them, so it's clear the
movie is based partly on his experiences with Yes. Here's a review of
them he wrote for Rolling Stone at that young age:

http://www.upcomingmovies.com/cameroncrowe.html

Paul Erlich wrote:

>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> >
>>hi hanuman,
>>
>>
>>--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:
>> >>
>>>In a message dated 2004:01:09 07:36:01 PM, monz writes:
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>>crap ... *after* i spent all that time typing in those
>>>>[Christgau] lists, i found out that he has them up on his website
>>>> >>>>
>>> ROTFLMAO well at least ya had a typing exercise...
>>>
>>> I kinda like Lester Bangs - the Philip K. Dick of
>>>pop music critics - more my self... and David Toop the
>>>William Gibson of same (& the Bruce Sterling of improv
>>>and improv theory, practise & critique... ;)
>>> >>>
>>
>>Lester Bangs was absolutely the most brilliant rock critic
>>ever -- a real genius. more than anyone else who ever
>>wrote about the music, he reallly captured its choatic,
>>exuberant, youthful *spirit*.
>>
>>did you ever see Cameron Crowe's movie "Almost Famous"?
>>it chronicles Crowe's beginnings as a teenage rock critic
>> >>
>
>Cameron Crowe has been one of the few rock critics supportive of Yes, >and in fact when he was at the age that he is depicted at in the >movie, he spent quite a bit of time with them, so it's clear the >movie is based partly on his experiences with Yes. Here's a review of >them he wrote for Rolling Stone at that young age:
>
>http://www.upcomingmovies.com/cameroncrowe.html
>
> >
begin quote:

Taking 20 minutes to summon the strength to rise from the
dressing room benches, Yes, generally pleased with their performance
for the morning, file slowly out the door and head for the limousines
that will deliver them back to the Beverly Hilton.
"Rick?" a glazed longhair nervously approaches Wakeman.
"Hello," Rick replies to the stranger.
"Rick, I have something I have to talk with you about. It's very
important. Could we talk?"
"Well, I'll tell you . . . we're uh . . . just leaving right now. I'm
very sorry. Is . . . is something wrong?"
"Rick, you must believe me. I'm Jesus Christ. I like your
records and I enjoyed your show tonight, but I'm afraid I have to save
you. . . ."
"I'm very sorry," Wakeman apologizes, "but I really have to go.
It's been, uh, nice meeting you though."
"That's quite all right, my friend," Jesus understands. "Someday
we'll meet again along the path. . . ."
Wakeman climbs into the car and slams the door. "Who was
that?" asks Alan. Wakeman smiles faintly.
"Fellow says he's Jesus Christ."
"Oh yeah," White yawns.
"Yeah. Doesn't look anything like his pictures, does he?"

End quote.

Interesting. Wakeman became born again a few years ago.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db