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What I Would Say to Osama bin Laden
Zen monk Thich Nhat Hanh talks about how listening is the first step towards
peace.
Interview by Anne A. Simpkinson

Thich Nhat Hanh is a Vietnamese monk in the Zen tradition, who worked
tirelessly for peace during the Vietnam War, rebuilding villages destroyed
by the hostilities. Following an anti-war lecture tour in the United States,
he was not allowed back in his country and settled in France. In 1967, he
was nominated by the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., for the Nobel Peace
Prize. He is now internationally known for his teaching and writing on
mindfulness, and for his work related to "socially engaged Buddhism," a call
to social action based on Buddhist principles. Thay, as he is affectionately
called by his followers, shared his thoughts on how America should respond
to the terrorist attacks. This interview will appear in a forthcoming book
entitled "Out of the Ashes: A Spiritual Response to America's Tragedy," to
be published jointly by Beliefnet and Rodale Press.

AS: If you could speak to Osama bin Laden, what would you say to him?
Likewise, if you were to speak to the American people, what would you
suggest we do at this point, individually and as a nation?

TNH: If I were given the opportunity to be face to face with Osama bin
Laden, the first thing I would do is listen. I would try to understand why
he had acted in that cruel way. I would try to understand all of the
suffering that had led him to violence. It might not be easy to listen in
that way, so I would have to remain calm and lucid. I would need several
friends with me, who are strong in the practice of deep listening, listening
without reacting, without judging and blaming. In this way, an atmosphere of
support would be created for this person and those connected so that they
could share completely, trust that they are really being heard.

After listening for some time, we might need to take a break to allow what
has been said to enter into our consciousness. Only when we felt calm and
lucid would we respond. We would respond point by point to what had been
said. We would respond gently but firmly in such a way to help them to
discover their own misunderstandings so that they will stop violent acts
from their own will

For the American people, I would suggest that we do everything we can to
restore our calm and our lucidity before responding to the situation. To
respond too quickly before we have much understanding of the situation may
be very dangerous. The first thing we can do is to cool the flames of anger
and hatred that are so strong in us. As mentioned before, it is crucial to
look at the way we feed the hatred and violence within us and to take
immediate steps to cut off the nourishment for our hatred and violence.

When we react out of fear and hatred, we do not yet have a deep
understanding of the situation. Our action will only be a very quick and
superficial way of responding to the situation and not much true benefit and
healing will occur. Yet if we wait and follow the process of calming our
anger, looking deeply into the situation, and listening with great will to
understand the roots of suffering that are the cause of the violent actions,
only then will we have sufficient insight to respond in such a way that
healing and reconciliation can be realized for everyone involved.

In South Africa, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission has made attempts
to realize this. All the parties involved in violence and injustice agreed
to listen to each other in a calm and supportive environment, to look
together deeply at the roots of violent acts and to find agreeable
arrangements to respond to the situations. The presence of strong spiritual
leaders is very helpful to support and maintain such an environment. We can
look at this model for resolving conflicts that are arising right in the
present moment; we do not have to wait many years to realize this.

AS: You personally experienced the devastation caused by the war fought in
Vietnam and worked to end the hostilities there. What do you say to people
who are grief-stricken and enraged because they have lost loved ones in the
terrorist attack?

TNH: I did lose my spiritual sons and daughters during the war when they
were entering the fighting zone trying to save those under the bombs. Some
were killed by war and some by murder due to the misunderstanding that they
were supporting the other side. When I looked at the four slain corpses of
my spiritual sons murdered in such a violent way, I suffered deeply.

I understand the suffering of those who have lost beloved ones in this
tragedy. In situations of great loss and grief, I had to find my calm in
order to restore my lucidity and my heart of understanding and compassion.
With the practice of deep looking, I realized that if we respond to cruelty
with cruelty, injustice and suffering will only increase.

When we learned of the bombing of the Bentra village in Vietnam, where
300,000 homes were destroyed, and the pilots told journalists that they had
destroyed the village in order to save it, I was shocked, and [racked] with
anger and grief. We practiced walking calmly and gently on the earth to
bring back our calm mind and peaceful heart.

Although it is very challenging to maintain our openness in that moment, it
is crucial that we not respond in any way until we have calmness and clarity
with which to see the reality of the situation. We knew that to respond with
violence and hatred would only damage ourselves and those around us. We
practiced [so that we might] look deeply into the suffering of the people
inflicting violence on us, to understand them more deeply and to understand
ourselves more deeply. With this understanding we were able to produce
compassion and to relieve our own suffering and that of the other side.

AS: What is the ï¿½right actionï¿½ to take with regard to responding to
terrorist attacks? Should we seek justice through military action? Through
judicial processes? Is military action and/or retaliation justified if it
can prevent future innocents from being killed?

TNH: All violence is injustice. The fire of hatred and violence cannot be
extinguished by adding more hatred and violence to the fire. The only
antidote to violence is compassion. And what is compassion made of? It is
made of understanding. When there is no understanding, how can we feel
compassion, how can we begin to relieve the great suffering that is there?
So understanding is the very real foundation upon which we build our
compassion.

How do we gain the understanding and insight to guide us through such
incredibly challenging moments that we are now face in America? To
understand, we must find paths of communication so that we can listen to
those who desperately are calling out for our understanding--because such an
act of violence is a desperate call for attention and for help.

How can we listen in a calm and clear way so that we donï¿½t immediately kill
the chance for understanding to develop? As a nation we need to look into
this: how to create the situations for deep listening to occur so that our
response to the situation may arise out of our calm and clear mind. Clarity
is a great offering that we can make at this time.

There are people who want one thing only: revenge. In the Buddhist
scriptures, the Buddha said that by using hatred to answer hatred, there
will only be an escalation of hatred. But if we use compassion to embrace
those who have harmed us, it will greatly diffuse the bomb in our hearts and
in theirs.

So how can we bring about a drop of compassion that can put out the fire of
hatred? You know, they do not sell compassion in the supermarket. If they
sold compassion, we would only need to bring it home and we could solve the
problem of hatred and violence in the world very easily. But compassion can
only be produced in our own heart by our own practice.

America is burning with hatred. That is why we have to tell our Christian
friends, "You are children of Christ." You have to return to yourselves and
look deeply and find out why this violence happened. Why is there so much
hatred? What lies under all this violence? Why do they hate so much that
they would sacrifice their own lives and bring about so much suffering to
other people? Why would these young people, full of vitality and strength,
have chosen to lose their lives, to commit such violence? That is what we
have to understand.

We have to find a way to stop violence, of course. If need be, we have to
put the men responsible in prison. But the important thing is to look deeply
and ask, "Why did that happen? What responsibility do we have in that
happening? " Maybe they misunderstood us. But what has made them
misunderstand us so much to make them hate so much?

The method of the Buddha is to look deeply to see the source of suffering;
the source of the violence. If we have violence within ourselves, any action
can make that violence explode. This energy of hatred and violence can be
very great and when we see that in the other person then we feel sorry for
them. When we feel sorry for them, the drop of compassion is born in our
hearts and we feel so much happier and so much more at peace in ourselves.
That [empathy] produces the nectar of compassion within ourselves.

If you come to the monastery, it is in order to learn to do that, so that
whenever you suffer and feel angry, you know how to look deeply, so that the
drop of compassion in your heart can come out of your heart and can put out
the fever of anger. Only the drop of compassion that can put out the flames
of hatred.

We must look deeply and honestly at our present situation. If we are able to
see the sources for the suffering within ourselves and within the other
person, we can begin to unravel the cycle of hatred and violence. When our
house is on fire, we must first put out the fire before investigating its
cause. Likewise, if we first extinguish the anger and hatred in our own
heart, we will have a chance to deeply investigate the situation with
clarity and insight in order to determine all the causes and conditions that
have contributed to the hatred and violence we are experiencing within
ourselves and within our world.

The ï¿½right actionï¿½ is the action that results in the fires of hatred and
violence being extinguished.

AS: Do you believe that evil exists? And, if so, would you consider
terrorists as evil persons?

TNH: Evil exists. God exists also. Evil and God are two sides of ourselves.
God is that great understanding, that great love within us. That is what we
call Buddha also, the enlightened mind that is able to see through all
ignorance.

What is evil? It is when the face of God, the face of the Buddha within us
has become hidden. It is up to us to choose whether the evil side becomes
more important, or whether the side of God and the Buddha shines out.
Although the side of great ignorance, of evil, may be manifesting so
strongly at one time that does not mean that God is not there.

It is said clearly in the Bible, ï¿½Forgive them for they know not what they
do.ï¿½ This means that an act of evil is an act of great ignorance and
misunderstanding. Perhaps many wrong perceptions are behind an act of evil;
we have to see that ignorance and misunderstanding is the root of the evil.
Every human being contains within him or herself all the elements of great
understanding, great compassion, and also ignorance, hatred, and violence.

AS: In your new book ï¿½Anger,ï¿½ you give an example of ï¿½compassionate
listeningï¿½ as a tool to heal families. Can that tool be used at a national
level, and if so, how would that work?

TNH: This past summer a group of Palestinians and Israelis came to Plum
Village, the practice center where I live in southern France, to learn and
practice the arts of deep listening and loving speech. (Around 1,600 people
come to Plum Village each summer from over a dozen countries to listen and
to learn how to bring peace and understanding to their daily lives.) The
group of Palestinians and Israelis participated in the daily schedule of
walking meditation, sitting meditation, and silent meals, and they also
received training on how to listen and speak to each other in such a way
that more understanding and peace could be possible between them as
individuals and as nations.

With the guidance and support of the monks and nuns, they sat down and
listened to each other. When one person spoke no one interrupted him or her.
Everyone practiced mindfulness of their breathing and listening in such a
way that the other person felt heard and understood.

When a person spoke, they refrained from using words of blame, hatred, and
condemnation. They spoke in an atmosphere of trust and respect. Out of these
dialogues the participating Palestinians and Israelis were very moved to
realize that both sides suffer from fear. They appreciated the practice of
deep listening and made arrangements to share what they had learned with
others upon returning to their home countries.

We recommended that the Palestinians and Israeli talk about their suffering,
fears, and despair in a public forum that all the world could hear. We could
all listen without judging, without condemning in order to understand the
experience of both sides. This would prepare the ground of understanding for
peace talks to occur.

The same situation now exists between the American people and people of
Islamic and Arabic nations. There is much misunderstanding and lack of the
kind of communication that hinders our ability to resolve our difficulties
peacefully.

AS: Compassion is a very large part of Buddhism and Buddhist practice. But
at this point in time, compassion towards terrorists seems impossible to
muster. Is it realistic to think people can feel true compassion now?

TNH: Without understanding, compassion is impossible. When you understand
the suffering of others, you do not have to force yourself to feel
compassion, the door of your heart will just naturally open. All of the
hijackers were so young and yet they sacrificed their lives for what? Why
did they do that? What kind of deep suffering is there? It will require deep
listening and deep looking to understand that.

To have compassion in this situation is to perform a great act of
forgiveness. We can first embrace the suffering, both outside of America and
within America. We need to look after the victims here within our country
and also to have compassion for the hijackers and their families because
they are also victims of ignorance and hatred. In this way we can truly
practice non-discrimination. We do not need to wait many years or decades to
realize reconciliation and forgiveness. We need a wake up call now in order
not to allow hatred to overwhelm our hearts.

AS: Do you believe things happen for a reason? If so, what was the reason
for the attacks on the U.S.A.?

TNH: The deep reason for our current situation is our patterns of
consumption. U.S.A. citizens consume 60% of the worldï¿½s energy resources yet
they account for only 6% of the total worldï¿½s population. Children in
America have witnessed 100,000 acts of violence on television by the time
they finish elementary school. Another reason for our current situation is
our foreign policy and the lack of deep listening within our relationships.
We do not use deep listening to understand the suffering and the real needs
of people in other nations.

AS: What do you think would be the most effective spiritual response to this
tragedy?

TNH: We can begin right now to practice calming our anger, looking deeply at
the roots of the hatred and violence in our society and in our world, and
listening with compassion in order to hear and understand what we have not
yet had the capacity to hear and to understand. When the drop of compassion
begins to form in our hearts and minds, we begin to develop concrete
responses to our situation. When we have listened and looked deeply, we may
begin to develop the energy of brotherhood and sisterhood between all
nations, which is the deepest spiritual heritage of all religious and
cultural traditions. In this way the peace and understanding within the
whole world is increased day by day.

To develop the drop of compassion in our own heart is the only effective
spiritual response to hatred and violence. That drop of compassion will be
the result of calming our anger, looking deeply at the roots of our
violence, deep listening, and understanding the suffering of everyone
involved in the acts of hatred and violence.

sometimes the best medicine is hard to swallow

🔗Rosati <dante.interport@...>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@...>