Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning Unlimited war?

Hi Dante, I read the last link, as the others. About the most recent one:

Thinking about things is different in war, it is accelerated. Bush's
rhetoric is matching the "speed" and style of Bin Laden. Slowing down is the
wrong direction for any kind of success, something you don't want to do on a
major highway.

Though personally irreligious, we have a religious administration. The
language America is using is that of Black and White because there are 2
sides, however amorphously defined. It does not mean there are not grades of
perspective.

On another point, arrests made around the world demonstrate this is indeed a
war. Maybe there are doers and thinkers, and each has its own speed. The
Taliban were certainly doers, but they wanted us to be thinkers, even after
the New York tragedy. They are protecting a supporter of terrorism whether
he was masterminded the 9/11, or not. Thinking now is a luxury that can mean
disintegration. Thinking is not something you do too much of in an
improvisation. It interferes with performance.

Johnny Reinhard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Rosati <dante.interport@...>

Hi Johnny-

I'm not sure what you're saying here- it seems to me that "thinking" is more
important now than ever, so that emotion-driven responses do not precipitate
even greater disasters. Fortunately, Bush's rhetoric seems to be just that
(rhetoric), and actually restraint and care is being shown (so far) in the
investigation, in pursuing diplomatic alliances, etc. I'm sure I'm not the
only one who feared, in those first terrible days after the attacks, that
the US was going to go off half-cocked and invade Afghanistan, bomb the shit
out of civilians, or who knows what (limited nuclear strikes?). I'm sure
there were those in the military who wanted to do just that (you know boys
and their toys), but, thankfully, cooler heads prevailed. If this
investigation and follow-up action is going to be successful, we need >lots<
of thinking.

One of the most important points made in some of these alternative reports
and editorials is that the US needs to not only "punish" the guilty
terrorists, but also make efforts to redress the past actions of this
country that have led to it being made a target. This was the one glaring
omission from Bush's speech the other night. Judging by his speech and what
is seen on CNN, you would think that we are innocent as lambs led to the
slaughter (the dead were innocent, but they lived in a country whose
government has not been), and the reason why we are targets is that they
(the societies that breed terrorists) envy our cool clothes and our freedom.
Well, maybe they do suffer from Nietzsche's "resentissment" a little, since
they can't even get it together to feed their own people, but this is not
the >only< root cause, as everyone who "thinks" is probably aware of- US
support of the Israeli treatment of Palestinians, sanctions against the
people of Iraq (yes, the people- you can be sure that Saddam Hussein is well
fed and medicated), botched missions in Somalia, miss-aimed missiles against
the Sudan, our continuing military presence in Saudi Arabia, etc. Of course
this does not justify or excuse the horrible attack, its just that the "root
causes" are a combination of sick religious fanaticism >and< past US
arrogance in its cavalier "policing" of the world.

I hope to god that the war is not "improvised"!

Dante

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Afmmjr@... [mailto:Afmmjr@...]
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 11:58 AM
> To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [metatuning] Unlimited war?
>
>
> Hi Dante, I read the last link, as the others. About the most recent one:
>
> Thinking about things is different in war, it is accelerated. Bush's
> rhetoric is matching the "speed" and style of Bin Laden. Slowing
> down is the
> wrong direction for any kind of success, something you don't want
> to do on a
> major highway.
>
> Though personally irreligious, we have a religious administration. The
> language America is using is that of Black and White because there are 2
> sides, however amorphously defined. It does not mean there are
> not grades of
> perspective.
>
> On another point, arrests made around the world demonstrate this
> is indeed a
> war. Maybe there are doers and thinkers, and each has its own
> speed. The
> Taliban were certainly doers, but they wanted us to be thinkers,
> even after
> the New York tragedy. They are protecting a supporter of
> terrorism whether
> he was masterminded the 9/11, or not. Thinking now is a luxury
> that can mean
> disintegration. Thinking is not something you do too much of in an
> improvisation. It interferes with performance.
>
> Johnny Reinhard
>
>

🔗Afmmjr@...

In a message dated 9/22/01 1:03:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dante.interport@... writes:

> country that have led to it being made a target. This was the one glaring
> omission from Bush's speech the other night. Judging by his speech and what
>

Dante, I'm not convinced this was an omission at all. Did the Jews of Central
Europe need to rethink their bad luck while they were waiting in line for the
ovens?

Haven't the U.S. been invited by Saudi Arabia to their land? When the U.S.
failed to act early, only to take lots of time to think, before aiding the
Bosnians, weren't they taken to task for their tardiness in protecting a
Muslim people?

Frankly, we have to show a big force to the world. It counteracts the
propaganda sent throughout the Muslim world, largely by Bin Laden. So Saddam
starves his own people and the U.S. is charged as full culprit. This is not
the full truth.

I discussion of improvisation as being badly impacted by too much thinking
should not be taken out of context. War is in itself not improvisation, but
planning. Maybe you could consider planning a form of appropriate thinking.

Johnny Reinhard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Rosati <dante.interport@...>

Johnny-

> Dante, I'm not convinced this was an omission at all. Did the
> Jews of Central
> Europe need to rethink their bad luck while they were waiting in
> line for the
> ovens?

Johnny, I'm sorry but the parallels between the situation now and what
happened to the Jews in central Europe 50 years ago is exactly 0. Unless of
course you want to point out that innocent Muslims in this country are in
danger of being attacked as scape-goats just as the Jews were attacked in
Germany as scape-goats at that time.

> Laden. So Saddam
> starves his own people and the U.S. is charged as full culprit.
> This is not
> the full truth.

I'm not aware of anyone in the west saying the US is the "full culprit". The
question is, are our sanctions against Iraq really hurting Saddam, or just
the people of Iraq?

> I discussion of improvisation as being badly impacted by too much
> thinking
> should not be taken out of context. War is in itself not
> improvisation, but
> planning. Maybe you could consider planning a form of
> appropriate thinking.

Yes, I would consider planning a form of appropriate thinking. This includes
planning to remove the causes of terrorism, such as unjust US foreign
policies that anger even moderate Muslims around the world.

Dante