Re: angry young Xists

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "X. J. Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:
> on 1/1/03 10:42 PM, John Starrett <jstarret@c...> wrote:
>
> > Come on, XJ, you know thay have *some* legitimate gripes.
>
> Well sure. I've got lots and lots of legitimate gripes too but you don't see
> me running around killing people over it.
>
> - Jeff

Well, sure, but you have a cushy job as a goat rancher and microtonalist ;>) Just for one, consider the Saudi state. There are millions of excruciatingly poor people, and a small family of royals who control all the power and money. It is not at all surprising that the population can be stirred up. You take a kid from that environment, get him all hopped up on religious propaganda, and he suddenly feels powerful, where he has always felt like nothing before. That is a very effective recruiting method, and my guess is that most of us here, were we in his position, would be vulnerable.

John Starrett

p.s. I was browsing your site the other day, and boy have you done a lot of work. You are one busy cat, X

In a message dated 1/2/03 11:10:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jstarret@... writes:

> Well, sure, but you have a cushy job as a goat rancher and microtonalist ;>)
> Just for one, consider the Saudi state. There are millions of
> excruciatingly poor people, and a small family of royals who control all
> the power and money. It is not at all surprising that the population can be
> stirred up.

John, this is isn't not true, to put it politely. Besides the fact that
"Xists" are coming from well to do families more often than the millions of
"supposedly" poor. My family lost everything in World War II and I grew up
poor. I don't see how I should be "stirred up" to do the horror required for
the terrorist's viscous disregard for the life of others. Would you?

best, Johnny Reinhard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/2/03 11:10:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jstarret@c... writes:
>
>
> > Well, sure, but you have a cushy job as a goat rancher and microtonalist ;>)
> > Just for one, consider the Saudi state. There are millions of
> > excruciatingly poor people, and a small family of royals who control all
> > the power and money. It is not at all surprising that the population can be
> > stirred up.
>
> John, this is isn't not true, to put it politely. Besides the fact that
> "Xists" are coming from well to do families more often than the millions of
> "supposedly" poor. My family lost everything in World War II and I grew up
> poor. I don't see how I should be "stirred up" to do the horror required for
> the terrorist's viscous disregard for the life of others. Would you?
>
> best, Johnny Reinhard
<snip>

The difference is the environment you were brought up in. I am not talking about the you you have become, but just the biological you: Take infant Johnny Reinhard and give him to sub-dirt poor Islamic parents, edumacate him by some crafty Wahabbist, and you have a terrorist. The difference is the environment and the religion. I don't see any other explanation but genetics, and I am not willing to take that step.

John Starret

In a message dated 1/2/03 11:47:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jstarret@... writes:

> The difference is the environment you were brought up in. I am not talking
> about the you you have become, but just the biological you: Take infant
> Johnny Reinhard and give him to sub-dirt poor Islamic parents, edumacate
> him by some crafty Wahabbist, and you have a terrorist.

John, this is a leap I simply cannot make. This is not math.

The difference is the environment and the religion. I don't see any other
explanation
> but genetics, and I am not willing to take that step.
>
> John Starret

We both don't know why the world is set on the course it is on. But I am not
willing to explain its raison d'etre other than as a religious aberration. I
don't believe it is environment, other than the exclusivity of the
"religious" environment. Unless there is a death gene that has been set
loose, this is not a situation of genetics.

Johnny Reinhard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 1/2/03 11:08 AM, John Starrett <jstarret@...> wrote:

> I was browsing your site the other day, and boy have you done a lot of work.
> You are one busy cat, X

Thanks John! Glad you had a chance to take a good look. I try to have some
nice niches and fun surprises for people there. Been working pretty
intensely on these things the last 15 months and the last 6 months have been
particularly intense -- LMSO 2.0 is coming next. This release represents a
cumulative investment of almost 11,000 hours into the codebase alone. Not
sure exactly when it'll all be out but I'll make some sort of announcement
-- it is really cool. Well, I am having fun with it at least!

- Jeff

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/2/03 11:47:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jstarret@c... writes:
>
>
> > The difference is the environment you were brought up in. I am not talking
> > about the you you have become, but just the biological you: Take infant
> > Johnny Reinhard and give him to sub-dirt poor Islamic parents, edumacate
> > him by some crafty Wahabbist, and you have a terrorist.
>
> John, this is a leap I simply cannot make. This is not math.
>
> The difference is the environment and the religion. I don't see any other
> explanation
> > but genetics, and I am not willing to take that step.
> >
> > John Starret
>
> We both don't know why the world is set on the course it is on. But I am not
> willing to explain its raison d'etre other than as a religious aberration. I
> don't believe it is environment, other than the exclusivity of the
> "religious" environment. Unless there is a death gene that has been set
> loose, this is not a situation of genetics.
>
> Johnny Reinhard

I am not sure I understand the last two sentences of your post, but it sounds to me like we may agree. I am just saying that you take wretchedly poor, hopeless people, teach them that their plight is someone elses fault, and that they can turn things around by killing the ones who are to blame, and that this is what God wants them to do, then it is not surprising that you get terrorists. Further, I claim that any baby, no matter what his genetics, put in this situation, can grow up to be a terrorist.

John Starrett

I think history proves already this

"John Starrett " wrote:

> Further, I claim that any baby, no matter what his genetics, put in this situation, can grow up to be a terrorist.
>
> John Starrett
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM 8-9PM PST

In a message dated 1/3/03 12:40:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jstarret@... writes:

> wretchedly poor

John, where I disagree with you is that, first the al Queda are in any way
"wretchedly poor," and two, that the poor should be so maligned as to suggest
they can be turned into killing machines (or that it is to be expected, or
even understandable if they did). Even the mentally ill know the difference
between being a killing machine and not.

Johnny (realizing these are difficult issues in difficult times)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Johnny!
i can't help but noticed this is more often true than not
yet they attempt to "represent" the poor
look at Marat who was a well to do pharmacist.
The SLA , a bunch of well to middle class kids.
an Al Queda money from a rich spoiled oil money kid.
not cheap operations.

May be it is not as much as "middle class guilt"
as it is that maybe being closer to the "top"
they see the corruption a little clearer.

but killing people for just causes is the worst reason

Afmmjr@... wrote:

>
>
> John, where I disagree with you is that, first the al Queda are in any way
> "wretchedly poor," and two, that the poor should be so maligned as to suggest
> they can be turned into killing machines (or that it is to be expected, or
> even understandable if they did). Even the mentally ill know the difference
> between being a killing machine and not.
>
> Johnny (realizing these are difficult issues in difficult times)
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM 8-9PM PST

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/3/03 12:40:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jstarret@c... writes:
>
>
> > wretchedly poor
>
> John, where I disagree with you is that, first the al Queda are in any way
> "wretchedly poor,"

Perhaps I was not sufficiently clear. I didn't call al Queda "wretchedly poor". My point is that the Islamists prey on the wretchedly poor by taking them into what amounts to terrorist boarding schools, where they memorize the Koran and are taught to hate their "enemies". In these schools, they have, sometimes for the first time in their lives, enough to eat and a comfortable place to sleep, and are made to feel that they are part of an extended family. These kids would never get any kind of education if not for these madrases.

>and two, that the poor should be so maligned as to suggest
> they can be turned into killing machines (or that it is to be expected, or
> even understandable if they did). Even the mentally ill know the difference
> between being a killing machine and not.

United States soldiers are taught to be killing machines. They are educated in hand to hand combat, and taught how to kill in a multitude of ways. Do you remember the anti Japanese propaganda that was used in WWII? The Japanese were painted as less than human, and soldiers were washed in this propaganda.

> Johnny (realizing these are difficult issues in difficult times)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What's the URL?

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley
----- Original Message -----
From: "X. J. Scott" <xjscott@...>
To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:47 PM
Subject: [metatuning] busy cats

> on 1/2/03 11:08 AM, John Starrett <jstarret@...> wrote:
>
> > I was browsing your site the other day, and boy have you done a lot of
work.
> > You are one busy cat, X
>
> Thanks John! Glad you had a chance to take a good look. I try to have some
> nice niches and fun surprises for people there. Been working pretty
> intensely on these things the last 15 months and the last 6 months have
been
> particularly intense -- LMSO 2.0 is coming next. This release represents a
> cumulative investment of almost 11,000 hours into the codebase alone. Not
> sure exactly when it'll all be out but I'll make some sort of announcement
> -- it is really cool. Well, I am having fun with it at least!
>
> - Jeff
>
>
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on 1/3/03 5:50 PM, David Beardsley wrote:

> What's the URL?

Oh, for LMSO? It's:

http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/LilMissScaleOven/

Version described there currently is LMSO 1.15

General overview of tuning software is at:

http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/

(all Mac)

and general overview including music and whacky stuff is at:

http://www.nonoctave.com/

Although there is also whacky stuff strewn in among the
boulders elsewhere.

Do let me know if you find anything out of place or messed up.

- Jeff