Re: Someone impersonating Brian McLaren

Kris Peck:

> So how do we know the guy on PracticalMicrotonality was really Brian?

Because along with the unpleasantness, there was a depth of intelligence,
knowledge, experience and rhetoric that would be very difficult to fake.

Dave Finnamore:

>Because he responded directly to several of us, including me, after PM
> was disbanded, using his xed... address. His responses quoted
> portions of our posts to PM. Strangely, in that post he was kind,
> considerate, respectful, and reasonable. Well, to everyone except
> Plato, whom he considers to be more evil than Hitler. OK, whatever.
> :-)

Ah, but how do you know the xed... address is really his?

Yes, I got that post, when on topic it is an improvement. I think it
deserves a reply, but I never got round to doing so. If I discover new
motivation, would anybody like to be CC-ed a copy?

Now I know who sent those Mr Zill posts, I am surprised, although I can
understand exactly why they did it. The phrase "two wrongs don't make a
right" insists on being present. Still, such is human frailty.

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: <graham@...>

> Now I know who sent those Mr Zill posts, I am surprised, although I can
> understand exactly why they did it. The phrase "two wrongs don't make a
> right" insists on being present. Still, such is human frailty.

And who was it and how do you know?

You can email me off list if you want.

David Beardsley

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <graham@...>
> To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <graham@...>
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 6:28 AM
> Subject: [metatuning] Re: Someone impersonating Brian McLaren
>
>
> Ah, but how do you know the xed... address is really his?

I know Brian personally. The xed... address is really his,
and he really was a member of practicalmicrotonality and
he really did submit those long posts loaded with challenges
and criticisms. And I believe what he told Gary, that he
has not posted to any other tuning list for several years.

In fact, along with Kraig, those "Mr Zill" posts seem vaguely
reminiscent to me too... I think they're just quoted McLaren
posts from the Mills College days.

So Graham, I'm curious too... who *is* "Mr Zill"? And why
hasn't he/she stepped forward yet, since being found out?

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

_________________________________________________________
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"monz" wrote:

> In fact, along with Kraig, those "Mr Zill" posts seem vaguely
> reminiscent to me too... I think they're just quoted McLaren
> posts from the Mills College days.
>
> So Graham, I'm curious too... who *is* "Mr Zill"? And why
> hasn't he/she stepped forward yet, since being found out?

Okay, well, it seems I was wrong initially. The person I thought sent
them had his account compromised. So somebody had been impersonating
somebody else impersonating Brian McLaren. I do have names but I
won't pass them on.

I don't know why a message wasn't sent, directly or otherwise, to the
list explaining this, but there you go. If anybody else goes checking
the IP addresses, don't jump to conclusions (it seems I wasn't the
first).

Oh, and it isn't Brian impersonating somebody impersonating himself.
I didn't think that was likely anyway because Brian doesn't have the
Internet knowledge to pull a stunt like this.

Graham

--- In metatuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:
> Kris Peck:
>
> > So how do we know the guy on PracticalMicrotonality was really
Brian?
>
> Because along with the unpleasantness, there was a depth of
intelligence,
> knowledge, experience and rhetoric that would be very difficult to
fake.

There ya go.

> Dave Finnamore:
>
> >Because he responded directly to several of us, including me, after
PM
> > was disbanded, using his xed... address. His responses quoted
> > portions of our posts to PM. Strangely, in that post he was kind,
> > considerate, respectful, and reasonable. Well, to everyone except
> > Plato, whom he considers to be more evil than Hitler. OK,
whatever.
> > :-)
>
> Ah, but how do you know the xed... address is really his?

It's the same one that was used to post in his name to PM. There
seems to be no doubt in anyone's mind that it was he there

> Yes, I got that post, when on topic it is an improvement. I think
it
> deserves a reply, but I never got round to doing so. If I discover
new
> motivation, would anybody like to be CC-ed a copy?

Yes. How about CC-ing it to Crazy Music, since that seems to be the
accepted replacement for PM? And/or to Tuning-challenges, since
that's the one Brian was specifically invited to rejoin (ah-huh, in
more than one way!). Seems that there we should all have sheilds up,
braced for impact, once the sparks begin to fly.

> Now I know who sent those Mr Zill posts,

You do? Did I miss something?

David

--- In metatuning@y..., "Graham Breed" <graham@m...> wrote:
> Oh, and it isn't Brian impersonating somebody impersonating himself.
> I didn't think that was likely anyway because Brian doesn't have the
> Internet knowledge to pull a stunt like this.

Besides, it wouldn't be like him. He has no fear of stamping his name
at the bottom of his own posts. He may be a troll sometimes but he's
not a coward. It would be pointless to do so, anyway.

David

David,

One small point:

--- In metatuning@y..., "David J. Finnamore" <daeron@b...> wrote:
> Besides, it wouldn't be like him. He has no fear of stamping his
> name at the bottom of his own posts. He may be a troll sometimes
> but he's not a coward.

I don't know if others would label this as a semantic argument, but I
find either having material posted _for_ you (as he did on the tuning
list a couple of years ago), or making massive posts, which are
pointedly hostile in some ways, and then offering no response to any
of the questions or issues raised...

I guess I don't find it "coward"-ly, but if one is really about
putting their name behind something, they should stick around and
listen to the commentary, both good and bad, on the points raised. As
well as offer apologies and corrections for the mistakes that any
human is going to have as part of their work.

I would hazard to say that it is this unilateral aspect of Brian's
dialogue, along with an inability/unwillingness to make a point in
less than 50-100k bytes of text, that tends to make one suspect of
his motives, and whether he seeks to foster enlightenment and
intelligent conversation or simply to make a scene.

And it would make so much more sense for all of this to be taking
place with his presence; I don't like talking about someone when
they're not here (but I'll keep a copy of this handy if he comes
around).

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:

> Now I know who sent those Mr Zill posts,

You do? Brian is investigating this . . . you should cooperate with
him (not that I have any great love for Brian).

> I am surprised, although I can
> understand exactly why they did it.

No one should have insulted Margo and everyone else on the tuning
list in such a way, whatever the reason.

--- In metatuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> David,
>
> One small point:
>
> --- In metatuning@y..., "David J. Finnamore" <daeron@b...> wrote:
> > Besides, it wouldn't be like him. He has no fear of stamping his
> > name at the bottom of his own posts. He may be a troll sometimes
> > but he's not a coward.
>
> I don't know if others would label this as a semantic argument, but
I
> find either having material posted _for_ you (as he did on the
tuning
> list a couple of years ago), or making massive posts, which are
> pointedly hostile in some ways, and then offering no response to
any
> of the questions or issues raised...

Exactly. He is an arsonist . . . light a match in the barn and then
run, run, run!
>
> I would hazard to say that it is this unilateral aspect of Brian's
> dialogue, along with an inability/unwillingness to make a point in
> less than 50-100k bytes of text, that tends to make one suspect of
> his motives, and whether he seeks to foster enlightenment and
> intelligent conversation or simply to make a scene.

Precisely. Which is why I see no reason to rule out that Mr. Zill
really was McLaren, or some twelve-year old having fun with the
internet. Either way, their goal was achieved -- make a stir and
watch the little ants scramble about.