Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning henry cow -> dan stearns

i listened to my second henry cow album last night: _western culture_

i've owned _leg-end_ for years, but this was something quite different

great music!

reminded me of univers zero meets dan stearns.

when it comes to '20th century classical' music, or univers zero, or
stuff like this, my thought has *always* been -- 'how silly to use 12-
tone equal temperament for this stuff'? 12-tone equal temperament
wasn't designed to make music like this, and the possibilities it
offers for this genre are rather limited. when i listen to much
atonal music, i hear the composer deliberately avoiding familiar
scales and chords -- but the means of avoidance are so predictable! a
semitone off in this direction, a semitone off in that direction. a
tone off and you might be back in tonal or consonant territory . . .
not a lot of possibilities.

kudos to dan stearns for giving this music what it desperately needs -
- an expanded pitch pallete!

p.s. i have yet to see an art bears cd anywhere . . . still
looking . . .

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

http://www.forcedexposure.com/search.html
they is one here

paulerlich wrote:

> i listened to my second henry cow album last night: _western culture_
>
> i've owned _leg-end_ for years, but this was something quite different
>
> great music!
>
> reminded me of univers zero meets dan stearns.
>
> when it comes to '20th century classical' music, or univers zero, or
> stuff like this, my thought has *always* been -- 'how silly to use 12-
> tone equal temperament for this stuff'? 12-tone equal temperament
> wasn't designed to make music like this, and the possibilities it
> offers for this genre are rather limited. when i listen to much
> atonal music, i hear the composer deliberately avoiding familiar
> scales and chords -- but the means of avoidance are so predictable! a
> semitone off in this direction, a semitone off in that direction. a
> tone off and you might be back in tonal or consonant territory . . .
> not a lot of possibilities.
>
> kudos to dan stearns for giving this music what it desperately needs -
> - an expanded pitch pallete!
>
> p.s. i have yet to see an art bears cd anywhere . . . still
> looking . . .
>
>
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-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗D.Stearns <STEARNS@...>

Hi Paul,

Western Culture is far and away my favorite Henry Cow record. It's
really a showcase for Hodgkinson and Cooper's compositions too, which
is unusual. Sonically it's a weird recording too in that everything is
on a whole unsympathetically dry and in your face (or ear). Proto
industrial prog at its best.

My favorite Univers Zero recording is the incredibly gothic 1313. Ceux
De Duhors is also excellent and much more varied as well. (And if you
like these, definitely seek out Present--especially Le Poison Qui Rend
Fou, you won't be disappointed!)

The often imitated but never duplicated Art Bears were my favorite
group growing up. They took art-pop song form just about as far as it
could go in a particular direction... seminal stuff and about as good
as it gets (Frith just kills in every capacity on those records too).

The Chris Cutler-Lutz Glandien record, Domestic Stories is really
quite excellent too. News From Babel had some very nice moments as
well with quite a few great, plaintive Robert Wyatt vocals.

You should check out my friends Absolute Zero... their new CD is being
midwifed by Cutler's ReR (check the recent catalog). I turned them on
to microtonality many years ago when they lived in Massachusetts, and
they were quite hip to the idea and I'm sure it's just a matter of
time and equipment before they jump in.

There's a bunch of genres and styles that I never quite understood why
someone hadn't gone microtonal in... avant prog was one... extreme
metal, like The Dillinger Escape Plan (et al), was another... my guess
is that this option is still just so far off the radar screen that
it's usually not even considered.

There are a lot of great contemporary prog bands that mix it up quite
impressively, and I bet you'd love some of these: for example, check
out Thinking Plague's In Extremis for an improbable but stylish mix of
Cow and Yes!

Unfortunately, this is a genre--like contemporary classical
music--that's just kind of played out its hand. Sure, there will be
the occasional thing that rises above and establishes itself as a
viable and vital force, but I think the wind has left the sails as far
as a movements as a whole are concerned... it's flatlined.

Thanks for the shout.

take care,

--Dan Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: "paulerlich" <paul@...>
To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: [metatuning] henry cow -> dan stearns

> i listened to my second henry cow album last night: _western
culture_
>
> i've owned _leg-end_ for years, but this was something quite
different
>
> great music!
>
> reminded me of univers zero meets dan stearns.
>
> when it comes to '20th century classical' music, or univers zero, or
> stuff like this, my thought has *always* been -- 'how silly to use
12-
> tone equal temperament for this stuff'? 12-tone equal temperament
> wasn't designed to make music like this, and the possibilities it
> offers for this genre are rather limited. when i listen to much
> atonal music, i hear the composer deliberately avoiding familiar
> scales and chords -- but the means of avoidance are so predictable!
a
> semitone off in this direction, a semitone off in that direction. a
> tone off and you might be back in tonal or consonant territory . . .
> not a lot of possibilities.
>
> kudos to dan stearns for giving this music what it desperately
needs -
> - an expanded pitch pallete!
>
> p.s. i have yet to see an art bears cd anywhere . . . still
> looking . . .
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
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> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
>
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:

> prog bands that mix it up quite
> impressively, and I bet you'd love some of these: for example, check
> out Thinking Plague's In Extremis for an improbable but stylish mix
of
> Cow and Yes!

thanks dan -- i'm planning to do a bit of online prog shopping soon
(primarily to get some Area on CD), and i'll try to get a hold of
some Thinking Plague if at all possible . . . was this the band that
john starrett posted a clip of some time ago?

> Unfortunately, this is a genre--like contemporary classical
> music--that's just kind of played out its hand. Sure, there will be
> the occasional thing that rises above and establishes itself as a
> viable and vital force, but I think the wind has left the sails as
far
> as a movements as a whole are concerned... it's flatlined.

prog? well, yeah, in the late 70s! still a viable source of
inspiration, though . . . even on the new jeff berlin record, which
is not prog and barely even fusion, i can hear definite echoes of
bill bruford . . .

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

Paul,

--- In metatuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> i can hear definite echoes of bill bruford . . .

Speaking of BB, it Trey Gunn a common name to prog people? I was looking for a CD by Jeff Greinke, "Hana" (certainly more than a few passing microtones: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/241/hana_.html )

...and on the record label's own site they mentioned the Trey Gunn band, and I had seen that Greinke had opened for them on some shows. I then read that Gunn had been one of the gtr players in the most recent King Crimson, and listened to a couple of tracks. Pretty seriously polyrhythmic, very Crimsonish. Some one to check out eventually.

As an aside, I once wrote a piece for a friend of mine who happened to be teaching percussion at Berklee. I flew back there for the premiere, and while she was running it down in her studio (marimba piece) she walked into the next office and said "hey, c'mere and listen and see if you like this phrasing". And who walks in to give a listen but fellow instructor Gary Burton.

Yikes.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> --- In metatuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> > i can hear definite echoes of bill bruford . . .
>
> Speaking of BB, it Trey Gunn a common name to prog people?

sure . . . he was a member of king crimson and various side projeKCts
thereof a few years ago . . . incredible musician, who can play bass
and lead at the same time with unbelievable facility on his 8-
string "Warr Guitar" . . .

>I was looking for a CD by Jeff Greinke, "Hana" (certainly more than
>a few passing microtones:
>http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/241/hana_.html )

just started streaming . . . nothing noticeably microtonal yet . . .
i'm afraid i have a gig to run off to . . .

> As an aside, I once wrote a piece for a friend of mine who happened
>to be teaching percussion at Berklee. I flew back there for the
>premiere, and while she was running it down in her studio (marimba
>piece) she walked into the next office and said "hey, c'mere and
>listen and see if you like this phrasing". And who walks in to give
>a listen but fellow instructor Gary Burton.
>
> Yikes.

yikes indeed! your heart must have skipped a beat. since getting the
jeff berlin cd, i've been reading more interviews with him, and it
appears that gary burton is planning to RETIRE FROM MUSIC. so says
jeff. if this is true, it's very, very sad news for music lovers
everywhere . . . let's at least get on the record companies to
release more of his albums on CD!

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗clumma <clumma@...>

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

----- Original Message -----
From: "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@...>

> Speaking of BB, it Trey Gunn a common name to prog people?

Of course!

>I was looking for a CD by Jeff Greinke, "Hana"
>
> ...and on the record label's own site they mentioned the Trey
> Gunn band, and I had seen that Greinke had opened for them
>on some shows. I then read that Gunn had been one of the gtr
>players in the most recent King Crimson, and listened to a couple
>of tracks. Pretty seriously polyrhythmic, very Crimsonish.
>Some one to check out eventually.

He's an ex-League of Crafty Guitarist and a current member of King Crimson
and other Fripp Projects for at least 11 years. Amazing music, but
it still sounds too much like Crimson for me.

The drummer/percussionist Bob Muller used to be in Jon Catler's band.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

----- Original Message -----
From: "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@...>
To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: [metatuning] Re: henry cow -> dan stearns

> --- In metatuning@y..., David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> > He's an ex-League of Crafty Guitarist and a current member of King
> > Crimson and other Fripp Projects for at least 11 years.
>
> Boy, guitarists *are* an incestuous bunch, aren't they? :)

Well...that's why his music sounds like Crimson.

> > Amazing music, but it still sounds too much like Crimson for me.
>
> That's funny: you can read this two ways...
>
> 1. (from a fan) "Amazing! It's just like Crimson!"
> 2. (from a non-fan) "Ugh! It's just like Crimson!"

Yep. Having spent time studying Fripp, I'd rather not
sound just like him. I can't listen to Gunn's music and not
think "that part sounds like something Tony Levin might
have played".

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

----- Original Message -----
From: "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@...>

> --- In metatuning@y..., David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> > I can't listen to Gunn's music and not
> > think "that part sounds like something Tony Levin might
> > have played".
>
> That is *exactly* how I felt when I heard it for the first time the other
night!

Yes, I think it's amazing but the apple doesn't fall far from the
tree. I should talk, I owe so much to La Monte Young's
influence at this point, but I try to use other tunings - instead
of doing exactly what La Monte uses.

Gunns music is amazing, I'd like to hear it break through
the Crimson influence. When he solos, it's like a Fripp clone
with a different tone (because of his Stick clone),

> <sigh> Sometimes I think there is too much music in the
>world, and the special things are all getting diluted...

Na...we'll get beyond that!

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

🔗D.Stearns <STEARNS@...>

Carl,

Right, besides the bassoon, Henry Cow and Univers Zero definitely
don't sound much alike! Early UZ is extremely dark, gothic and almost
maniacally deliberate... in fact they were nearly an audio vis a vis
of H.P. Lovecraft's less cosmic, more intimate horrors. HC, while
retaining no less of an immediately recognizable signature sound than
UZ, were always much more experimental and touching on many different
ideas.

I think any similarities Western Culture might have with what I do
would be in the abrasiveness and density department (that and I was
after all very familiar with the music as the Art Bears really were a
seminal influence on me early on... but sounding too much like
something or someone else is almost always a bad idea anyway, or at
least it usually tends to irk me).

Anyway, speaking of what I might or might not sound like, I figured
I'd mention that I've got a couple of pieces up at:

http://zebox.com/dan_stearns/

In a World out of Tune was written while I was still a teenager. The
clarinetist is Jim Capone, whom I've played with in many different
projects over the years.

Where old green trolleys go to die is a solo jazz guitar ballad
influenced in part by Shoenberg's early piano music.

One Step from the Street was written for a contest in which it
finished 2nd out of over 700 entries. It's the only piece of these
that uses alternate tunings.

take care,

--Dan Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: "clumma" <clumma@...>
To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 12:17 AM
Subject: [metatuning] Re: henry cow -> dan stearns

> Paul, Dan, David, all;
>
> I'll chime in that Western Culture is also my fav. Cow album
> (I've got them all -- thanks to Paul for turning me on to
> them way back!).
>
> I've only heard one univers zero album (which I liked BTW),
> but it didn't remind me of Western Culture, nor does Dan's
> music. Hrm.
>
> I saw Frith at Mills recently, and 'twas good. The Art Bears
> rock (Berkeley's own "Amoeba" shop carries their stuff -- too
> bad they don't do mail order). Our very own Sleepytime Gorilla
> Museum follows after Cow, and rocks quite well. Many of their
> instruments are home-made non-12.
>
> -Carl
>
>
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🔗kpeck77 <kris.peck@...>

🔗clumma <clumma@...>

>Right, besides the bassoon, Henry Cow and Univers Zero definitely
>don't sound much alike! Early UZ is extremely dark, gothic and
>almost maniacally deliberate...

That fits the one album I borrowed. I wish I could remember the
name. It was really good, but I remember thinking it was a little
dark for my taste.

>HC /.../ were always much more experimental and touching on many
>different ideas.

Def. Legend has several different styles on it. Western Culture
is actually the most homogenous of the albums, and it's rather
unlike anything on the sock albums.

>but sounding too much like something or someone else is almost
>always a bad idea anyway, or at least it usually tends to irk me).

Amen.

>http://zebox.com/dan_stearns/

Got 'em!

-Carl