Re: [metatuning] More Perspective of Israel and Palestine

Johnny,

This are truly excellent articles.

I don't understand though why your friend Bill said:
>
> Article #2 indirectly demonstrates how the Bush
> Administration dropped the ball by not continuing
> the negotiations with Arafat and Israel.

This does not make sense to me -- article #2 made quite
clear the point that negotiating with Arafat was
totally pointless as it would NEVER result in peace
since Arafat's entire IDENTITY is inextricably merged
with hartred, conflict and violence.

- Jeff

Perhaps Arafat cannot trust the US after they are the main suppliers of arms
to his "co -called " oppressors. For the US to stand up they and act like
they are "Neutral" and expect to be believed is ridiculous. It would be
like Saudi Arabia setting up negotiations between the two sides. Would
Sharon trust them. No way.
Look at how good the US is with its word.

No the dear little prince pays a visit to bush and Arafat is set free sounds
like an Palestine for Iraq trade might have just got worked out. well not
till we get closer to election time.

No just what did Iraq do to us that was so bad. I didn't see any Iraqi on
those Airplanes.
I don't see the Kuwaitis trying to solve the Palestinian problem by taking
them in and helping them out.

Now if Russia kept saying that they were going to attack the US well maybe
next year. What would we do. If i was saddam i would pull all my resources
and takes us down or try to. Like are we not forcing him to attack now so
that we aren't in as good of position to take him down. I am glad I am not
in NY or Washington cause that is where i would hit and just keep hitting
the same sore wound until it collapses. Even if you didn't kill people,
enough Radioactive dirt could force multiple cities to be evacuated.
I could imagine the traffic jams here.

Our forefathers and mothers appear wise enough to distance themselves
completely away from religion having any part in government. When it has
come around here , it has done nothing but hurt the U.S. Possibly we need to
realize either oneside nukes the other or we completely rethink the whole
thing.

Make the whole damn place an international "holy" land. Although i can
not think of a more foul and disgusting area drenched in blood that if the
god of both sides , some old man upstairs, is real and he is punishing us .
well guess what when i get to Heaven I am gunna punish him. And let me tell
ya he is gunna HURT

"X. J. Scott" wrote:

> Johnny,
>
> This are truly excellent articles.
>
> I don't understand though why your friend Bill said:
> >
> > Article #2 indirectly demonstrates how the Bush
> > Administration dropped the ball by not continuing
> > the negotiations with Arafat and Israel.
>
> This does not make sense to me -- article #2 made quite
> clear the point that negotiating with Arafat was
> totally pointless as it would NEVER result in peace
> since Arafat's entire IDENTITY is inextricably merged
> with hartred, conflict and violence.
>
> - Jeff
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
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-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

In-Reply-To: <E172Ppj-00009d-00@...>
Johnny:
> > Article #2 indirectly demonstrates how the Bush
> > Administration dropped the ball by not continuing
> > the negotiations with Arafat and Israel.

Jeff:
> This does not make sense to me -- article #2 made quite
> clear the point that negotiating with Arafat was
> totally pointless as it would NEVER result in peace
> since Arafat's entire IDENTITY is inextricably merged
> with hartred, conflict and violence.

No, it was Sharon's fault for not continuing the negotiations. So,
everybody was to blame! Can we go home now?

Seriously, you could have said it was equally pointless to negotiate with
Sinn Fein because their entire identity was inextricably merged with
hatred, conflict and violence. Somehow, it worked anyway. If Arafat
really did persist in rejecting this deal, it could have been published
so that his own people would have been able to see how obstinate he was.

Graham

In a message dated 4/30/02 2:47:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kraiggrady@... writes:

> Perhaps Arafat cannot trust the US after they are the main suppliers of arms
> to his "co -called " oppressors. For the US to stand up they and act like
> they are "Neutral" and expect to be believed is ridiculous.

Kraig, 2 points:
1. The PLO was supported with loads of money for its now destroyed
infrastructure: U.S. CIA money, Saudi money, mucho European money, and even
Israeli money. That Israel achieved much in a relatively short time is not
because of US money alone. There is international support for Israel as
well, though clearly largely Jewish.

2. Israel has no country that supports them, nor has there ever been a
country that supports its Jewish population fully. Each claims better or
lesser cohesion between its Jewish population and its majority population.
Europe has failed Jews time and again, most recently 60 years ago. As the
Saudi are 100% in support of Palestine, why shouldn't Israel have support
from the U.S.? Wouldn't trying to force fit the U.S. into neutrality be less
believable than the fact that Americans admire Israel more than they admire
the Palestinians but want a fair result between them?

Johnny Reinhard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Afmmjr@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/30/02 2:47:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> kraiggrady@... writes:
>
> > Perhaps Arafat cannot trust the US after they are the main suppliers of arms
> > to his "co -called " oppressors. For the US to stand up they and act like
> > they are "Neutral" and expect to be believed is ridiculous.
>
> Kraig, 2 points:
> 1. The PLO was supported with loads of money for its now destroyed
> infrastructure: U.S. CIA money, Saudi money, mucho European money, and even
> Israeli money. That Israel achieved much in a relatively short time is not
> because of US money alone. There is international support for Israel as
> well, though clearly largely Jewish.

Well we do supply the weapons/. I think this whole area was another Cold War spot
with the PLO getting support from Russia.

>
>
> 2. Israel has no country that supports them, nor has there ever been a
> country that supports its Jewish population fully.

I think the Palestinians are in the very same spot. The Kurds too.

> Each claims better or
> lesser cohesion between its Jewish population and its majority population.
> Europe has failed Jews time and again, most recently 60 years ago. As the
> Saudi are 100% in support of Palestine, why shouldn't Israel have support
> from the U.S.?

I am not saying they shouldn't, i was saying how it would be hard to expect the
opposition to not feel they had there own agenda. I know Palestinians that were
forced to move from country to country - not what i would call 100% from anybody.

> Wouldn't trying to force fit the U.S. into neutrality be less
> believable than the fact that Americans admire Israel more than they admire
> the Palestinians but want a fair result between them?

I don't think the US admires anyone at anytime. If Business here can make money
off of Israel buying and selling weapons that will generate support. Which means
that the escalation of conflict is exactly what we want.
The Palestinian say that the other side has offered them nothing except
continued Israeli domination, thinly disguised. Considering they call pulling
tanks two miles out of town a withdrawal from the west bank, i see no reason to
dispute what they say.

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm