Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning The Other Way Of Stopping

MetaListeners,

We should clear up one small corner of the current mess, and I think
I'm in a good position to help do that. In the States, you can go
into one of the more upscale malls, or in the big swank towns like
New York or Miami Beach or Beverley Hills you can just head into one
of their own stores: Ferrigamo.

Without too much trouble, you should be able to see a couple of
examples, usually in a soft leather, taupe, ecru, olive. You'll
recognize them by the signature roundedness at the ankle, tapering
down and in with a curve.

The Comma Pump.

I couldn't resist, and I had to have a pair. I only wore them twice!

* - * - *

This actually started in the most innocuous way: for months I've been
frustrated that my posts on the Yahoo! Groups web interface all came
out shouting my email in ALL CAPS, and while I knew there must be a
way to have a "normal" name like all the other kids, I didn't have
the time to dig through the Yahoo! menus. So I thought I'd just
create a new email address, and as it stepped my through the signup
I'd find the spot for altering that entity. I eventually did, which
is why my name now appears, and in the process I had created a new
account, named in honor of some of the posts in recent days, about
comma pumps (which I've always thought was a Monty Python-esque kind
of term, valid as it is).

It occurred that I might want to use it, so that I could see if all
the new information was in place, and one of those pesky emails had
come down the pike, so I posted using the new account. The online
life (the first 50% of it) of Ms. Comma Pump had started.

It only took one more post after that for Ms. Pump to grow silent. In
all, Ms. Pump was responsible for a total of one word, one sentence
and one paragraph.

A one word answer to a question.
A one sentence rebuff to a remark.
A one paragraph admonition about behavior.

The funny thing is that I was sure someone would see that it was just
another person on the list responding to what seemed like valid
posts, and didn't enter my mind that it would be thought of as one
person, doing a "series" of impersonations, confusing the issue. In
light of this, I'd like to personally apologize to JdL, because I
know he sounded like he hit the roof with this scenario!

So my regret is that in running a brief experiment, I've muddied the
waters on a (potentially) more serious matter. This is not good, and
I'm glad I stopped after only two posts. There is one thing I'll add,
however.

The first little item was a throw-away, and while the comments may
have been valid they certainly would have gotten lost in the wind.
But while that account was active (and I'll bet it still is), the
post about my dear colleague Margo Schulter came online, and I
couldn't stand it. So I wrote again.

* - * - *

It wasn't old-fashioned chivalry, or even the protectivity of someone
close to me personally. In fact, I *wish* I knew more about Margo
Schulter, because I can't think of anyone who has moved me so much
with her writings, demeanor, passions, and life-affirming civility.
Not to mention I know little of her subject materials. When that post
came online impugning her, I freaked.

And, as I posted once recently, I've seen in the past where
the 'community' sort of sat by and was fairly quiet when something
like this occurred. I've been aided by others in trying to understand
this sort of behavior, but it does indeed bother me.

We've had, in recent memory, a very fine community spring up from the
main tuning list, full of energy, spirit, and a very different feel --
not better, just different -- than the tuning list. Of course, this
was Practical Microtonality. It doesn't exist anymore. The person who
started it is gone as well. And it happened from the same kind of
postings that we saw recently on the tuning list.

I'll state this right up front: I have no idea if that post regarding
Ms. Schulter, attributed to Brian McLaren, was from him, or from a
surrogate, or from an impostor; I addressed the *words* in that post,
and for that I have nothing to hide about. In retrospect, I should
have just said it from my voice, as I've certainly done in the past,
and as anyone with more than a couple of weeks here on the list would
know. I thought to use Ms. Pump's "voice" to see if it would resonate
coming from someone else who might be too shy to post themselves. Of
course, my error was in not seeing other potential misconceptions.

That error in judgment I accept full responsibility for, and the only
caveat I offer was being prompted by my outrage at seeing a fine and
decent person belittled and abused.

* - * - *

Last night I thought I'd make a post and then just jettison the
lists, all 5 or 6 of them now (!). But in the event that actions of
such a nature would give cause to question my feelings or behavior,
I'll stay on the lists for a couple of days. I'm pretty much going to
just look to this list for an airing of the issue, as I don't think
the main list is a great place for it. Thanks to JdL and RW for
stewardship of a couple of alternate places to post, and it is my
sincere desire, folly that it may be, that all of the lists can heal
themselves in time. Even if I won't be here to see that, I'll know
that valuable research, sharing, and comradery will be taking place.

With respect to all of the good people in the tuning community,
Jon Szanto

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Jon and the others.
My anger over all of this McLaren stuff is just what we are seeing here.
It seems people are for more concerned with McLaren and his problems than
the problems he causes for others. That he is not well should be obvious.
There is absolutely nothing of any Szanto post under this made up name
that even remotely resembles anything Brian has said. or his impostor has
quoted and that's what they are QUOTES I have seen them all .

We have completely lost Jacky Ligon from what i can tell, basically set
up and double crossed by Mr. Zeal. I am sick of hearing about how great his
overly biased piece of litter called the "introduction "is since it
suppressed any mention of JI when ever it can. It is revisionist and edited
with a slant with the expressed purposed of doing what his posts have done.
Set up his way of microtonality.

If these list are more concerned with McLaren than those who lay cut up
in his path. and People like Szanto are forced off of nothing, and some
think you want to play doctor for BML, nothing any of you are qualified to
do, than out of my own self defense, i will leave these list too. Putting
handkerchief over dead elephants is not an answer

Jon Szanto wrote:

> MetaListeners,
>
> With respect to all of the good people in the tuning community,
> Jon Szanto
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

----- Original Message -----
From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

> Jon and the others.
> My anger over all of this McLaren stuff is just what we are seeing
here.
> It seems people are for more concerned with McLaren and his problems than
> the problems he causes for others. That he is not well should be obvious.

I'm with you one this one Kraig. There's always some undercurrent
of hostility in BML's posts, from the the old ones on the Mill's lists
to his recent ones on the Practical Microtonality list.

> We have completely lost Jacky Ligon from what i can tell, basically
set
> up and double crossed by Mr. Zeal. I am sick of hearing about how great
his
> overly biased piece of litter called the "introduction "is since it
> suppressed any mention of JI when ever it can. It is revisionist and
edited
> with a slant with the expressed purposed of doing what his posts have
done.
> Set up his way of microtonality.

I don't think I ever saw his introduction post. What list was/is it on?

> If these list are more concerned with McLaren than those who lay cut
up
> in his path. and People like Szanto are forced off of nothing, and some
> think you want to play doctor for BML, nothing any of you are qualified to
> do, than out of my own self defense, i will leave these list too. Putting
> handkerchief over dead elephants is not an answer

Stick around Kraig!

David Beardsley

🔗nanom3@...

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Mary,

Sorry to jump in, but:

--- In metatuning@y..., nanom3@h... wrote:
> Hi Kraig
> ... I do hope you stay on the spiritual tuning list.
> I value what you have to say highly.

Boy so do I, as well as your contibutions, and others. I've posted
almost nothing at all there, just absorbing for the beginning. I went
to see if anyone had some peaceful suggestions a little while ago
and ...

... I've been removed from the group, apparantly something only the
moderator/owner can do. I wasn't made aware of this, but it happened
sometime overnight/this morning.

I understood that one shouldn't "share" the posts on the
spiritual_tuning list in other places, and that is very prudent and
considerate. I *didn't* realize that something that was posted
elsewhere could get you excommunicated.

If any of you have input, I was enjoying the posts over there very
much, and thought that might have been the one list I'd hang on to.
Guess I don't have the right spirit or something...

Please send my good wishes to the spiritual_tuning list, and Mary, if
you have any mp3's of your stuff for restoring peace, could I get a
link? :)

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@...>

Hi Kraig

> If these list are more concerned with McLaren than those who lay cut up
> in his path. and People like Szanto are forced off of nothing, and some
> think you want to play doctor for BML, nothing any of you are qualified to
> do, than out of my own self defense, i will leave these list too. Putting
> handkerchief over dead elephants is not an answer

Part about playing doctor for BML is obviously addressed to me, though
my remarks were for his impersonator instead.

So, I'd just like to make it clear that I'm not at all qualified, and
have no experience in this area.

Intention was just to motivate whoever it is who is the impersonator
to seek help of some kind.

Or perhaps to take a long sleep if it is something that has just flared
up and is not part of their usual character and they are heading
towards a nervous breakdown. That I think was the only thing i
said in the way of advice. But as you say, I'm not qualified to
say that much. It is something that is used, but the situations
in which it is used may not be identical, as I am not qualified
to know that. Things that look similar to a lay person may be far
from similar to those who know more about such things.

So, perhaps I may apologise about that. It might well not be helpful
advice at all. I suppose it may possibly be harmful advice.

Unfortunately sometimes things I say come over more authoratative
than they should at times, and things that I intend just as thoughts
to consider, as might be said by anyone in a casual way,
can sound as if they are from someone who considers himself
knowledgeable about the matter. Maybe I should add in more speling
erors, mabe that wud help. I do often add that what I just said
is just a thought, in an attempt to help counteract this.

I think as you say, whoever it is really does need specialised help,
and I hope they find it, or that it gets resolved. I found your
post on this helpful too.

As for Brians posts to pm, I haven't read them as they are so long,
but gather they include pretty inflamatory material.

However, may be worth bearing in mind that it wasn't he who actually
closed the p.m. list. He certainly caused a lot of stress, and
is surely the reason that Jacky felt unable to continue with it.
But there is no reason to suppose that he had any intention to
close the list, after all, it was a place where he could post,
and was getting some response.

He says in his post to me that he never posted any messages
to TL at yahoogroups.com, and has no interest in doing so.

So he has lost the only place that recently he felt able
to interact on line with other microtonalists. We can well
understand why it happened, and may well have seen it
coming, but I doubt if it is intentional on his part,
and he may not have been able to predict such an effect
of his actions.

I think it is quite important that when someone does have
traits that are troublesome to others, that one doesn't
add to them other things that they haven't actually done,
but just keeps to what happened, and tries to address
that as best one can.

But, that is only a thought to consider, I see it is written in
"authoratative mode" somewhat! Not meant that way.

Robert

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Sorry to jump in, but:
>
> --- In metatuning@y..., nanom3@h... wrote:
> > Hi Kraig
> > ... I do hope you stay on the spiritual tuning list.
> > I value what you have to say highly.
>
> Boy so do I, as well as your contibutions, and others. I've posted
> almost nothing at all there, just absorbing for the beginning. I went
> to see if anyone had some peaceful suggestions a little while ago
> and ...
>
> ... I've been removed from the group, apparantly something only the
> moderator/owner can do. I wasn't made aware of this, but it happened
> sometime overnight/this morning.

Incredible.
>
> I understood that one shouldn't "share" the posts on the
> spiritual_tuning list in other places, and that is very prudent and
> considerate. I *didn't* realize that something that was posted
> elsewhere could get you excommunicated.

This sounds all too familiar . . .
>
> If any of you have input, I was enjoying the posts over there very
> much, and thought that might have been the one list I'd hang on to.
> Guess I don't have the right spirit or something...

Guess not! Sheesh. Unbelievable.
>
> Please send my good wishes to the spiritual_tuning list, and Mary, if
> you have any mp3's of your stuff for restoring peace, could I get a
> link? :)

Likewise . . .

By the way, Jon, thanks for helping Monz with coloring my PB pages . . . hope you learned
something in the process . . . I am at your service.

🔗Orphon Soul, Inc. <tuning@...>

On 6/16/01 3:30 PM, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@...> wrote:

> .. I've been removed from the group, apparantly something only the
> moderator/owner can do. I wasn't made aware of this, but it happened
> sometime overnight/this morning.

No as a moderator *I* can only weed posts.
Only the owner can delete accounts from the list.

> I understood that one shouldn't "share" the posts on the
> spiritual_tuning list in other places, and that is very prudent and
> considerate. I *didn't* realize that something that was posted
> elsewhere could get you excommunicated.

That's a fair enough argument.
I'll take it up with the owner.
I'll see if I can't get you reinstated.

There might be a tendency on spiritual_tuning
for a little bit of overprotectivity.
We all discussed that in the group.
There might be occasion where someone
gets unsubscribed out of overprotection.
There might be a jumping of the gun.
It's not undoable.

I don't think this needs to be made more of an issue
on metatuning or tuning_gossip or anywhere else.
The unsubscription is now under appeal.

Marc

The Other Way Of Stopping

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

🔗nanom3@...

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Orphon Soul, Inc. <tuning@...>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗David J. Finnamore <daeron@...>