Trouble in France

This sounded like metatuning material when I heard it on the radio this
morning

<http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/21/22202/6638>

Unfortunately, even if they don't have a hope of being elected, the more
support racist parties get, the more mainstream politicians take on their
ideas. In this case, we'll be seeing a centre-right candidate going
one-on-one with the far right. Hopefully he'll stay squeaky clean to make
sure centre-left voters turn out for him, rather than drifting to the
right to reduce Le Pen's support.

One thing I thought about researching for a previous thread: the National
Front have a big group on the local government of Marseilles. Although
the politicians don't openly support it, racist attacks always go up when
the far right have a following anywhere. So it may be significant that it
was the *national* government vowing to protect synagogues in that story.
Of course, newspapers suggesting the local government was turning a blind
eye would be in legal trouble.

Graham

> Although
> the politicians don't openly support it, racist attacks
always
> go up when
> the far right have a following anywhere.

I saw his election very differently:

1. Racist attacks on synagogues and schoolbuses are
taking place in France.

2. These attacks are a profound embarassment to French
citizens.

3. All of the attacks have been caused by Islamic
immigrants.

4. In another issue, the EU people are telling the
French how and whether they can make their cheese the
same way they have for hundreds of years.

5. What is called the nationalist or far right party is
opposed to immigration (which is the 'cause' of racist
attacks') and globalization (which launches legal
attacks that threaten traditional French customs and
culture.)

6. Therefore the nationalist party seems to represent
the concerns of the people and gains political
following.

Now whether the nationalist party really work on those
things I have no idea. But I see why people support
them and racism is not the reason.

- Jeff

In-Reply-To: <E16zeA3-0007mo-00@...>
X. J .Scott wrote:

> 1. Racist attacks on synagogues and schoolbuses are
> taking place in France.
>
> 2. These attacks are a profound embarassment to French
> citizens.

So voting for a far-right presidential candidate will make them less
embarrassed?

> 3. All of the attacks have been caused by Islamic
> immigrants.

Can you name all the people involved in those attacks, along with their
religion and place of birth? The best I've been able to find is

<http://www.expatica.com/francemain.asp?pad=278,313,&item_id=21537>

"""
Many of the attacks are seen as being perpetrated by young members of
France's five million Muslims, most of whom come from North African
immigrant families that identify with the Palestinian cause.
"""

Young members of immigrant families are not usually themselves immigrants.

> 4. In another issue, the EU people are telling the
> French how and whether they can make their cheese the
> same way they have for hundreds of years.

Oh, so it's about cheese! And when Le Pen said

"""
We mustn't delude ourselves. Europe is already `German.' Germany is the
geopolitical center of Europe. It is the largest country on the continent,
demographically and economically, and its influence will only grow after
the Eastern European countries are added to the EU, since they are
essentially the German hinterland.
"""

<http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=153418&contras
sID=2&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y>

it was because he wanted to keep on eating unpasteurised cheese.

> 5. What is called the nationalist or far right party is
> opposed to immigration (which is the 'cause' of racist
> attacks') and globalization (which launches legal
> attacks that threaten traditional French customs and
> culture.)

Immigrants are frequently the victims of racist attacks, but opposing
immigration is a roundabout way of preventing them.

> 6. Therefore the nationalist party seems to represent
> the concerns of the people and gains political
> following.

I sincerely hope the National Front does not represent the concerns of the
people.

> Now whether the nationalist party really work on those
> things I have no idea. But I see why people support
> them and racism is not the reason.

Can you think of a non-racist reason, then? So far, you seem to be
suggesting it's because they hate Muslims and Germans.

Graham

>> 1. Racist attacks on synagogues and schoolbuses are
>> taking place in France.
>>
>> 2. These attacks are a profound embarassment to French
>> citizens.
>
> So voting for a far-right presidential candidate will make
> them less embarrassed?

The term 'far-right' seems like name-calling. It
conjures up images of stormtroopers and goosestepping.
Does not seem to me that this cat is a racial supremist
as is being implied. What's wrong with being
anti-globilization and Francophilic? A frenchman being
proud of French culture is very different from a
Fascist seeking to eradicate cultures not his own.

What I am saying is that the racists who have attacked
the synagogues did not vote for Jean-Marie. As if!

> """
> Many of the attacks are seen as being perpetrated by young
> members of
> France's five million Muslims, most of whom come from North
> African
> immigrant families that identify with the Palestinian cause.
> """
>
> Young members of immigrant families are not usually
themselves
> immigrants.

Perhaps not. But the fact is that they learned their
racism somewhere; from their parents and friends are
likely sources.

The synagogue attackers do not respect or have interest
in the culture of their host country that is giving
them a chance. Instead they want to spread
anti-semitism and violent acts. Sending them away or at
least prevented more of them from coming in seems a
reasonable response to the problem. I note that France
does not make itself open to immigration from
jew-hating, hitler-loving white-supremists from
Montana. Why treat jew-hating hilter-loving
islamo-supremists sany differently?

> Oh, so it's about cheese! And when Le Pen said

> """ We mustn't delude ourselves. Europe is already `German.'
> Germany is the geopolitical center of Europe. It is the
> largest country on the continent, demographically and
> economically, and its influence will only grow after the
> Eastern European countries are added to the EU, since they
> are essentially the German hinterland. """

I am sympathetic to this statement he made. Europe is
very likely to become the 4th Reich the way it is
headed and Jean-Marie is OPPOSED to that. So am I.
Facism has not been good for Europe in the past.

> it was because he wanted to keep on eating unpasteurised
> cheese.

That's part of it, yes.

> Immigrants are frequently the victims of racist attacks, but
> opposing immigration is a roundabout way of preventing them.

I am not aware that there is a pattern in france of
Islamic militant immigrants being the victims of racist
attacks.

>> 6. Therefore the nationalist party seems to represent
>> the concerns of the people and gains political
>> following.
>
> I sincerely hope the National Front does not represent the
> concerns of the people.

I agree with the French who are opposed to
globalization & the federalization of Europe. But
that's their battle and perogative not mine.

I believe immigration is a good thing in many cases but
can sympathize with those in France who are questioning
whether allowing vast numbers of radical islamists to
come in and tear the country to shreds, attacking
peaceful french jews, burning synagogues to the ground
and so forth. Clearly it is time to start asking what
is wrong with that picture and what can be done to fix
it. Jean-Marie offers an open discussion of the problem
and does not pretend there is not a problem. I can see
that would be appealing to people tired of what they
see as BS and selling out done by the current
government. Whether Jean-Marie would be any different
who knows. There is no chance he will be elected so the
world will never know.

>> Now whether the nationalist party really work on those
>> things I have no idea. But I see why people support
>> them and racism is not the reason.
>
> Can you think of a non-racist reason, then? So far, you seem
> to be
> suggesting it's because they hate Muslims and Germans.

Did I mention anything about Germans in my post?
Did I or Jean-Marie say anything about hating people?

Recognizing that a group of people is causing a lot of
trouble and discussing in public whether anything can
be done to change that is very different from hating
anyone.

Speaking of REAL hate, the musilm high pope of mecca
guy says jews are monkeys and pigs. The muslims of the
world, forcibly kept ignorant and illiterate by their
wealthy masters, have no reason not to believe the evil
racist diatribes of these satanic leaders. I personallf
think the solution is that Muslims leaders running
hate-cults need to be revealed for what they are. This
is not possible though since the countries and areas in
which they operate do not enjoy free speech.

I fully agree with the Israeli tactic of isolating the
biggest terrorist leader we've seen -- Arafat. And
rounding up the terrorist leaders is a good move. The
Palestinian people have been deceived and manipulated
by these power-mongering psychopaths long enough.

- Jeff

--- In metatuning@y..., "X. J .Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:
>
> > Although
> > the politicians don't openly support it, racist attacks
> always
> > go up when
> > the far right have a following anywhere.
>
> I saw his election very differently:
>
> 1. Racist attacks on synagogues and schoolbuses are
> taking place in France.
>
> 2. These attacks are a profound embarassment to French
> citizens.
>
> 3. All of the attacks have been caused by Islamic
> immigrants.
>
> 4. In another issue, the EU people are telling the
> French how and whether they can make their cheese the
> same way they have for hundreds of years.
>
> 5. What is called the nationalist or far right party is
> opposed to immigration (which is the 'cause' of racist
> attacks') and globalization (which launches legal
> attacks that threaten traditional French customs and
> culture.)
>
> 6. Therefore the nationalist party seems to represent
> the concerns of the people and gains political
> following.
>
> Now whether the nationalist party really work on those
> things I have no idea. But I see why people support
> them and racism is not the reason.
>
> - Jeff

The French were very good to American blacks who moved there to avoid
the racist attitudes in the US. I don't think they are historically
racist, at least not any more than other western Europeans.
Considering the quality of the news we get here, I am not surprised
that the things you mention went largely unreported in the popular
news accounts. I can understand how Muslims can be enflamed and urged
to attack Jews by their "leaders", but I also understand why the
French would be resentful of these internal attacks on their Jewish
citizens. They certainly have a right to exclude fundamentalist
Muslims from immigrating if they see them as a threat to their
national security.

John Starrett

The French "traditionally" have been racist against the Algerians. So you
can see how blaming it on the "museums" plays into their hand. Years ago Le
Pen proposed revoking all there citizenship. This is after in the 60's they
imported them cause they were needed. The 80's came around and they didn't
want them any more. Like i said a month ago the Vichy government was never
dismantled like it was in Germany. Le Pen is up, oops i mean down, there
with david duke

jdstarrett wrote:

>
>
> The French were very good to American blacks who moved there to avoid
> the racist attitudes in the US. I don't think they are historically
> racist, at least not any more than other western Europeans.
> Considering the quality of the news we get here, I am not surprised
> that the things you mention went largely unreported in the popular
> news accounts. I can understand how Muslims can be enflamed and urged
> to attack Jews by their "leaders", but I also understand why the
> French would be resentful of these internal attacks on their Jewish
> citizens. They certainly have a right to exclude fundamentalist
> Muslims from immigrating if they see them as a threat to their
> national security.
>
> John Starrett
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In metatuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> The French "traditionally" have been racist against the Algerians.
> So you can see how blaming it on the "museums" plays into their
> hand. Years ago Le Pen proposed revoking all there citizenship. This
> is after in the 60's they imported them cause they were needed. The
> 80's came around and they didn't want them any more. Like i said a
> month ago the Vichy government was never dismantled like it was in
> Germany. Le Pen is up, oops i mean down, there with david duke

I guess it goes to show that people can be assholes when it suits
their purpose.

John Starrett

--- In metatuning@y..., "X. J .Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:
>
> I believe immigration is a good thing in many cases but
> can sympathize with those in France who are questioning
> whether allowing vast numbers of radical islamists to
> come in and tear the country to shreds, attacking
> peaceful french jews, burning synagogues to the ground
> and so forth.

i can't believe this is happening. f*****g french skinheads going
around spreading their violence, then blaming it on muslims and
immigration policy, and then people like you believing them.

> Clearly it is time to start asking what
> is wrong with that picture and what can be done to fix
> it. Jean-Marie offers an open discussion of the problem
> and does not pretend there is not a problem.

except when it comes to the holocaust, or other minor 'details of
history'.

--- In metatuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

> Le Pen is up, oops i mean down, there
> with david duke

you better believe it!

--- In metatuning@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote:

> i can't believe this is happening. f*****g french skinheads going
> around spreading their violence, then blaming it on muslims and
> immigration policy, and then people like you believing them.

I hadn't heard the skinhead connection. Unfortunately I haven't been
paying enough attention to world affairs recently.

JS

Hey Kraig,

> The French "traditionally" have been racist against the
> Algerians.

I do hear about this French Algerian thing from time to
time and admit I know little about it.

> Like i said a month ago the Vichy
> government was never dismantled like it was in Germany.

Never thought of it that way... interesting
perspective.

> Le Pen is up, oops i mean down, there
> with david duke

I don't know what the latest is with duke, I heard he
repented of his ways, but who knows what he believes.
I'll assume here that duke is still a separatist.

Do you see Le Pen as fundamentally a racist, or a
separatist or both or neither?

- Jeff

READ NO FURTHER IF EASILY OFFENDED

Cos Jeff

let me put it this way

I wouldn't piss up his ass
if his insides were on fire!

"X. J .Scott" wrote:

> Hey Kraig,
>
>
> Do you see Le Pen as fundamentally a racist, or a
> separatist or both or neither?
>
> - Jeff

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

>I hadn't heard the skinhead connection. Unfortunately I haven't
>been paying enough attention to world affairs recently.

Sounds like you're paying at least enough. I know only one name
in this discussion -- David Duke -- and I can't remember who he
is.

-Carl