natural vs. artificial

KG,

I'm not sure your examples are appropriate, since most of the people you
mention "lay all of their cards on the table" as Reich says, (even Xenakis
does this---if it's based on gas particles' movements . . . well, it often
kind of sounds like gas particles movements. . . )

I was speaking of composers whose procedures are completely inscrutable
from the musical surface.

but I guess inscrutable<------>cards-on-table is a different line
from artificial<----------->based-on-nature.

I guess you could have an inscrutable composing methodology that was based
on nature. Not sure what that would be . . . .

Certainly you can have an artificial composing methodology, that lays its
cards on the table (that you can "hear"). . . . though the risk of making
something boring is high, the rewards if successful could be something
very interesting musically. . . .

> c bailey wrote (on examples of good music from arbitrary compositional
> procedures (of course this is all personal taste)):
>
> Boulez's Pli Selon Pli, or ferneyhough's La Chute D'Icare are good
> examples. Boulez 3rd Sonata, last movment, is the reverse---bla-ness.

>>
>> (Kraig grady replied:)
>>well with these you lost me as convincing me although if a beggar on the
>>street
>>produced these i
>>would enjoy them much more as novelty
>> You might have gotten me with Xenakis who uses "sound as a
>>possibility" so
>>probably lying
>>between the camps, not unlike him.
>> Always leaned toward him, ligeti, scelsi, reich, riley, but should
>>mention
>>those
>>"unrecognized" outside such circles, Hafler Trio , Dome, Niblock,
>>Zoviet
>>France, his Heat,
>>incorporated these elements in diminishing order but not necessarily
>>musicality.

***From: Christopher Bailey******************

212-663-2515
http://music.columbia.edu/~chris

**********************************************

CB!
I would tend to group the two features you have below together but as you
point out, there is a murky area. I don't know where that leaves us!
There are composers such as Elliot Carter who if you like him (which i did in
the past)
i found that it had nothing to do with his procedure! What i perceive was
different than what i saw on the page although it does appear he was
successful in creating different "personalities for each instrument. When you
could hear them!

Christopher Bailey wrote:

> KG,
>
> I'm not sure your examples are appropriate, since most of the people you
> mention "lay all of their cards on the table" as Reich says, (even Xenakis
> does this---if it's based on gas particles' movements . . . well, it often
> kind of sounds like gas particles movements. . . )
>
> I was speaking of composers whose procedures are completely inscrutable
> from the musical surface.
>
> but I guess inscrutable<------>cards-on-table is a different line
> from artificial<----------->based-on-nature.
>
> I guess you could have an inscrutable composing methodology that was based
> on nature. Not sure what that would be . . . .
>
> Certainly you can have an artificial composing methodology, that lays its
> cards on the table (that you can "hear"). . . . though the risk of making
> something boring is high, the rewards if successful could be something
> very interesting musically. . . .

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

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