Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning Trying to expand my musical horizons

I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M

I want to throw 13-limit harmony into all of this. Anyway, I've never
heard music like this before, so now my mind is blown forever. Can
anyone else point me towards some gems of modern music that I don't
know about? Here's my rough mental time line of music

1) Bach
2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
3) Beethoven
4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
6) More Debussy
7) Debussy
8) Debussy
9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
12) ?????? A bunch of stuff happened here that I usually gloss over as
"boring and atonal," but I have apparently completely missed Ligeti,
so I'm obviously missing something
13) Steve Reich and that other guy
14) Film Composers
15) This one modern dude named Eric Whitacre

Thus ends my knowledge of classical music. Apparently
psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-shattering magnitude
happened during #12 and I completely missed all of it because I was
too busy being tired of atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?

Merci
Mike

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

A few addenda:

- I messed up and put Gershwin out of order, should be after Stravinsky and Ives
- Bartok should be in there too somewhere near Stravinsky
- Schoenberg I guess goes into #12

-Mike

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M
>
> I want to throw 13-limit harmony into all of this. Anyway, I've never
> heard music like this before, so now my mind is blown forever. Can
> anyone else point me towards some gems of modern music that I don't
> know about? Here's my rough mental time line of music
>
> 1) Bach
> 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
> 3) Beethoven
> 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
> 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> 6) More Debussy
> 7) Debussy
> 8) Debussy
> 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
> 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
> 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
> 12) ?????? A bunch of stuff happened here that I usually gloss over as
> "boring and atonal," but I have apparently completely missed Ligeti,
> so I'm obviously missing something
> 13) Steve Reich and that other guy
> 14) Film Composers
> 15) This one modern dude named Eric Whitacre
>
> Thus ends my knowledge of classical music. Apparently
> psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-shattering magnitude
> happened during #12 and I completely missed all of it because I was
> too busy being tired of atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?
>
> Merci
> Mike
>

🔗cityoftheasleep <igliashon@...>

Are you familiar with the "New Complexity" movement? Or Berio? Ferneyhough?

-Igs

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M
>
> I want to throw 13-limit harmony into all of this. Anyway, I've never
> heard music like this before, so now my mind is blown forever. Can
> anyone else point me towards some gems of modern music that I don't
> know about? Here's my rough mental time line of music
>
> 1) Bach
> 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
> 3) Beethoven
> 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
> 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> 6) More Debussy
> 7) Debussy
> 8) Debussy
> 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
> 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
> 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
> 12) ?????? A bunch of stuff happened here that I usually gloss over as
> "boring and atonal," but I have apparently completely missed Ligeti,
> so I'm obviously missing something
> 13) Steve Reich and that other guy
> 14) Film Composers
> 15) This one modern dude named Eric Whitacre
>
> Thus ends my knowledge of classical music. Apparently
> psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-shattering magnitude
> happened during #12 and I completely missed all of it because I was
> too busy being tired of atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?
>
> Merci
> Mike
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Varese, Scelsi, Xenakis (especially his percussion music-Pleiades, Okho) all relate to tuning in its use and creation of sound.
Ligeti's orchestral works are very much concerned with sound.
Morton Feldman might have an appeal even though his use of pitch can be static, but is probably the composer most influenced by pure psychology.
There is no system to his music at all.
He has a way of setting up things to make you expect things and then undermining it constantly. The longer the piece the better.
For Philip Guston at over 4 hours or the Second quartet of that length.
I think allot of the early Cage is great music and the later number pieces also

there is Satie as one of the first composers who broke away from functional harmony and into chords as color.

There is music pre bach music
Gesauldo [who messed wit h 31 tone scales] has to be one of the few composers who can switch emotions on a dime.
Some times in a single line , he can go through all of them.
Willaert, Ockeham Dufay, any of the flemish 16th century composers.

World music has exposed me to more different ways of thinking about music than anything

/^_,',',',_ //^/Kraig Grady_^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

On 23/03/11 10:00 PM, Mike Battaglia wrote:
> I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M
>
> I want to throw 13-limit harmony into all of this. Anyway, I've never
> heard music like this before, so now my mind is blown forever. Can
> anyone else point me towards some gems of modern music that I don't
> know about? Here's my rough mental time line of music
>
> 1) Bach
> 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
> 3) Beethoven
> 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
> 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> 6) More Debussy
> 7) Debussy
> 8) Debussy
> 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
> 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
> 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
> 12) ?????? A bunch of stuff happened here that I usually gloss over as
> "boring and atonal," but I have apparently completely missed Ligeti,
> so I'm obviously missing something
> 13) Steve Reich and that other guy
> 14) Film Composers
> 15) This one modern dude named Eric Whitacre
>
> Thus ends my knowledge of classical music. Apparently
> psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-shattering magnitude
> happened during #12 and I completely missed all of it because I was
> too busy being tired of atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?
>
> Merci
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziQjykdLDVU

/^_,',',',_ //^/Kraig Grady_^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

On 23/03/11 10:04 PM, Mike Battaglia wrote:
> A few addenda:
>
> - I messed up and put Gershwin out of order, should be after Stravinsky and Ives
> - Bartok should be in there too somewhere near Stravinsky
> - Schoenberg I guess goes into #12
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Mike Battaglia<battaglia01@...> wrote:
>> I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M
>>
>> I want to throw 13-limit harmony into all of this. Anyway, I've never
>> heard music like this before, so now my mind is blown forever. Can
>> anyone else point me towards some gems of modern music that I don't
>> know about? Here's my rough mental time line of music
>>
>> 1) Bach
>> 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
>> 3) Beethoven
>> 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
>> 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
>> 6) More Debussy
>> 7) Debussy
>> 8) Debussy
>> 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
>> 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
>> 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
>> 12) ?????? A bunch of stuff happened here that I usually gloss over as
>> "boring and atonal," but I have apparently completely missed Ligeti,
>> so I'm obviously missing something
>> 13) Steve Reich and that other guy
>> 14) Film Composers
>> 15) This one modern dude named Eric Whitacre
>>
>> Thus ends my knowledge of classical music. Apparently
>> psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-shattering magnitude
>> happened during #12 and I completely missed all of it because I was
>> too busy being tired of atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?
>>
>> Merci
>> Mike
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

Thanks Kraig, I'll check these out.

-Mike

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Varese, Scelsi, Xenakis (especially his percussion
> music-Pleiades, Okho) all relate to tuning in its use and
> creation of sound.
> Ligeti's orchestral works are very much concerned with sound.
> Morton Feldman might have an appeal even though his use of pitch
> can be static, but is probably the composer most influenced by
> pure psychology.
> There is no system to his music at all.
> He has a way of setting up things to make you expect things
> and then undermining it constantly. The longer the piece the better.
> For Philip Guston at over 4 hours or the Second quartet of
> that length.
> I think allot of the early Cage is great music and the later
> number pieces also
>
> there is Satie as one of the first composers who broke away from
> functional harmony and into chords as color.
>
> There is music pre bach music
> Gesauldo [who messed wit h 31 tone scales] has to be one of
> the few composers who can switch emotions on a dime.
> Some times in a single line , he can go through all of them.
> Willaert, Ockeham Dufay, any of the flemish 16th century
> composers.
>
> World music has exposed me to more different ways of thinking
> about music than anything

🔗hstraub64 <straub@...>

Quite beautiful, indeed. Other things by Ligeti I have heard, however, I liked less (his opera "the grand macabre", e.g.)

> I want to throw 13-limit harmony into all of this. Anyway, I've
> never heard music like this before, so now my mind is blown
> forever.
> Can anyone else point me towards some gems of modern music that I
> don't know about? Here's my rough mental time line of music
>
> 1) Bach
> 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
> 3) Beethoven
> 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here

Here I would put in: Wagner/Bruckner/Mahler/Liszt (yes, I would say Liszt belongs here!)

Here is an intriguing example for Liszt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1mwQt4m-Gg

> 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> 6) More Debussy
> 7) Debussy
> 8) Debussy
> 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
> 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
> 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
> 12) ?????? A bunch of stuff happened here that I usually gloss over as
> "boring and atonal," but I have apparently completely missed Ligeti,
> so I'm obviously missing something
> 13) Steve Reich and that other guy

With "the other guy" I suppose you mean Philip Glass?

> 14) Film Composers
> 15) This one modern dude named Eric Whitacre
>
> Thus ends my knowledge of classical music. Apparently
> psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-shattering magnitude
> happened during #12 and I completely missed all of it because I was
> too busy being tired of atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my
> mind?
>

How about Prokofiev:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxRpLA4sBFg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcGrkwwMt_k&feature=related

and also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1AMGAq2pWs&feature=related

A quite different, but yet 20th century classical composer is Astor Piazzolla:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1v3jST9H5Y&playnext=1&list=PL65E80B3FF2D7A254
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHW9aVn97u4&feature=related
--
Hans Straub

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

bes t to honest as that will cue me to your taste. and i believe in taste

/^_,',',',_ //^/Kraig Grady_^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

On 24/03/11 10:32 PM, Mike Battaglia wrote:
> Thanks Kraig, I'll check these out.
>
> -Mike
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Kraig Grady<kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Varese, Scelsi, Xenakis (especially his percussion
>> music-Pleiades, Okho) all relate to tuning in its use and
>> creation of sound.
>> Ligeti's orchestral works are very much concerned with sound.
>> Morton Feldman might have an appeal even though his use of pitch
>> can be static, but is probably the composer most influenced by
>> pure psychology.
>> There is no system to his music at all.
>> He has a way of setting up things to make you expect things
>> and then undermining it constantly. The longer the piece the better.
>> For Philip Guston at over 4 hours or the Second quartet of
>> that length.
>> I think allot of the early Cage is great music and the later
>> number pieces also
>>
>> there is Satie as one of the first composers who broke away from
>> functional harmony and into chords as color.
>>
>> There is music pre bach music
>> Gesauldo [who messed wit h 31 tone scales] has to be one of
>> the few composers who can switch emotions on a dime.
>> Some times in a single line , he can go through all of them.
>> Willaert, Ockeham Dufay, any of the flemish 16th century
>> composers.
>>
>> World music has exposed me to more different ways of thinking
>> about music than anything
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Keesvp <keesvp@...>

Hi Mike,

You already got a lot of great advice.
From your (French) preferences I think the biggest hole in your list is Messiaen.
Ligeti is great, of course. Especially don't miss his last work, the Hamburg concerto. It's the most microtonal thing he did. ('Le Grand Macabre' isn't very typical for his work overall)
I wholeheartedly agree about Xenakis. Johnny Reinhard did a recording of his 'Anaktoria', because of it's microtonal properties.
I can't imagine you will like Ferneyhough though, seeing your easy classification of stuff as 'atonal and boring'. He's one of those that's much easier to read, and read about, than listen to.
Regarding the pre-baroque music, listen to 'mirabile mysterium' by Gallus. It's from 1586, and uses harmonies that wouldn't be heard for another 400 years. The Gesualdo tip is right on the mark too.
For what happened after minimalism, there's fun stuff under the names of 'postminmalism', totalism and 'downtown' music. Recordings of the 'Bang on a Can' ensemble are a good introduction.
You can easily find samples of all this on youtube.
Good luck

Kees
--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M
>
> I want to throw 13-limit harmony into all of this. Anyway, I've never
> heard music like this before, so now my mind is blown forever. Can
> anyone else point me towards some gems of modern music that I don't
> know about? Here's my rough mental time line of music
>
> 1) Bach
> 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
> 3) Beethoven
> 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
> 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> 6) More Debussy
> 7) Debussy
> 8) Debussy
> 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
> 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
> 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
> 12) ?????? A bunch of stuff happened here that I usually gloss over as
> "boring and atonal," but I have apparently completely missed Ligeti,
> so I'm obviously missing something
> 13) Steve Reich and that other guy
> 14) Film Composers
> 15) This one modern dude named Eric Whitacre
>
> Thus ends my knowledge of classical music. Apparently
> psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-shattering magnitude
> happened during #12 and I completely missed all of it because I was
> too busy being tired of atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?
>
> Merci
> Mike
>

🔗cityoftheasleep <igliashon@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:20 PM, cityoftheasleep
> <igliashon@...> wrote:
> >
> > Are you familiar with the "New Complexity" movement?
>
> Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Complexity

> > Or Berio?
>
> Nay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK7Dt_gkWhg

> > Ferneyhough?
>
> Negative. Can you enlighten me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJwxKxJVps4

-Igs

🔗hstraub64 <straub@...>

🔗Keesvp <keesvp@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

Mike wrote:

> I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M

Ligeti was my favorite living composer until he died.
Lux Aeterna was used in the 2001 soundtrack - a movie you
should see if you haven't.
You might also check out the Bad Plus' version of his
Etude #10 (on the album, For All I Care).

> 1) Bach

The end of a school of keyboard music that started with
William Byrd in Britain, went to the Netherlands with
Sweelinck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdIWw0sQHas
and finally came to North Germany where Bach learned it.

> 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan

The baroque period was abruptly broken by Viennese
classicism, of which Mozart was the greatest practitioner.
It also started the era of big business... saying Mozart
wrote this or that opera is a bit like saying Walt Disney
animated Lady and the Tramp. He probably did write the
great symphonies though, like this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcly8-RGhgw
as well as numerous experimental keyboard works like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0GV-CCuOFQ

But generally I agree with

> 3) Beethoven

and apparently you that it tended to be banal and needed
stirring up.

> 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
> 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> 6) More Debussy
> 7) Debussy
> 8) Debussy
> 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff

I dunno if Gershwin was a modernist. He did go to France
to meet / study with Debussy.

You would probably like Les six, which were the endpoint
of Debussy/Ravel/that crew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_six
Milhaud is sort of the greatest of them.

> 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff

Russian 20th-century school, founded by Prokofiev, as
distinct from Tchaikovsky / Rimsky-Korsakov / Rachmaninoff.

> 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff

Ives, Partch, Copland, Bernstein are "iconoclastic
American composers".

> Apparently psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-
> shattering magnitude happened during #12 and I completely
> missed all of it because I was too busy being tired of
> atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?

I don't think it gets much better than Ligeti.

What did you think of the French organ school stuff (if
you saw that discussion on facebook)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_organ_school

And yeah, check out Milhaud.

-Carl

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

I wrote:

> > Apparently psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-
> > shattering magnitude happened during #12 and I completely
> > missed all of it because I was too busy being tired of
> > atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?
>
> I don't think it gets much better than Ligeti.
>
> What did you think of the French organ school stuff (if
> you saw that discussion on facebook)?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_organ_school
>
> And yeah, check out Milhaud.

Oh, and early Schoenberg - for example his early string
quartets.

-Carl

🔗Dante Rosati <danterosati@...>

my list for the 2nd half 20th c:

Xenakis the revolutionary
Carter the traditiionalist
Ligeti the chameleon
Grisey the visionary

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Mike wrote:
>
> > I have just discovered Ligeti's piano etudes:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUKVOlN_YQ
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkNlWxQL8
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M
>
> Ligeti was my favorite living composer until he died.
> Lux Aeterna was used in the 2001 soundtrack - a movie you
> should see if you haven't.
> You might also check out the Bad Plus' version of his
> Etude #10 (on the album, For All I Care).
>
> > 1) Bach
>
> The end of a school of keyboard music that started with
> William Byrd in Britain, went to the Netherlands with
> Sweelinck
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdIWw0sQHas
> and finally came to North Germany where Bach learned it.
>
> > 2) Mozart and I'm not the biggest fan
>
> The baroque period was abruptly broken by Viennese
> classicism, of which Mozart was the greatest practitioner.
> It also started the era of big business... saying Mozart
> wrote this or that opera is a bit like saying Walt Disney
> animated Lady and the Tramp. He probably did write the
> great symphonies though, like this one
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcly8-RGhgw
> as well as numerous experimental keyboard works like this
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0GV-CCuOFQ
>
> But generally I agree with
>
> > 3) Beethoven
>
> and apparently you that it tended to be banal and needed
> stirring up.
>
> > 4) Chopin and Schumann and a bunch of other folks go here
> > 5) Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> > 6) More Debussy
> > 7) Debussy
> > 8) Debussy
> > 9) Gershwin and the modernist stuff
>
> I dunno if Gershwin was a modernist. He did go to France
> to meet / study with Debussy.
>
> You would probably like Les six, which were the endpoint
> of Debussy/Ravel/that crew
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_six
> Milhaud is sort of the greatest of them.
>
> > 10) Stravinsky and the dissonant stuff
>
> Russian 20th-century school, founded by Prokofiev, as
> distinct from Tchaikovsky / Rimsky-Korsakov / Rachmaninoff.
>
> > 11) Ives and the chopped up bits of Americana stuff
>
> Ives, Partch, Copland, Bernstein are "iconoclastic
> American composers".
>
> > Apparently psychoacoustically mind$#*&ing music of earth-
> > shattering magnitude happened during #12 and I completely
> > missed all of it because I was too busy being tired of
> > atonality. Can anyone help to enlarge my mind?
>
> I don't think it gets much better than Ligeti.
>
> What did you think of the French organ school stuff (if
> you saw that discussion on facebook)?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_organ_school
>
> And yeah, check out Milhaud.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

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🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Dante Rosati <danterosati@...>

Grisey is known as one of the founders of the spectralist school, although
that's sort of a pidgeonhole. his massive "espaces acoustiques" is one last
great masterpiece from the 20th c. i think you can download here:

http://inconstantsol.blogspot.com/2008/10/here-is-performance-of-grard-griseys.html

to my ears Carter is the true heir to Schoenberg. there is something very
traditional about the way he shapes rhetorical statements, handles melody
and counterpoint, etc.

theres some interesting symmetries between the two halves of the 20th c.
Schoenberg-Carter, and Stravinsky-Ligeti. both stravinsky and ligeti
dabbled with whatever style was au courante and trade quite a bit in irony.

I'm not sure who the 1st half version of Xenakis would be? maybe Verese?

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@lumma.org> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I'm not familiar with Grisey. How the heck is
> Carter traditional?
>
> -Carl
>
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Dante Rosati <danterosati@...> wrote:
> >
> > my list for the 2nd half 20th c:
> >
> > Xenakis the revolutionary
> > Carter the traditiionalist
> > Ligeti the chameleon
> > Grisey the visionary
> >
>
>
>

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