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You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...

so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
Best Regards,

Leo Alves Vieira

www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)

Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: Maybe you're right. The implications, though, are so staggering that I
can't comprehend a world in which this is true. Think about the sorts
of things these people would have to do in order to orchestrate the
whole thing, all the while knowing that there was no greater purpose
to what they were doing.

Consider: People in power make difficult decisions all the time. They
often look easy in retrospect, but often at the time they are faced
with two horrible choices, and they have to decide which one to take.
Hiroshima is a good example: whether or not you agree with the
decision, neither option was morally justifiable. But to think that
all the people you listed, and a great deal more who must have been
involved, could all be faced with a moral no-brainer and all pick the
repulsive answer...

I don't know how to fit that into my world-view. I understand that
people are motivated by greed and have skewed moral compasses, but
that so many people could be so skewed is absurd, not in a "I am an
elephant" way but in a Samuel Becket, life has no meaning sort of way.
It's fucking scary.

You may commence mocking my naiveté now. That I understand perfectly well.

On 6/24/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> BUSH father, Bush son, Paul wolfowitz, Condolezza Rice, Donald Rumsfeld and course, the owner and his 7 billion dollars of insurance against terrorist attacks.
>
> Blame them!
> It's all written over: 9/11 is their work of art. Planned for years. I repeat: It's all written over... i can see that from here (Brasil)... i'm seeing!
> In fact, is not a matter of blaming, it's all practically proved! Course it won't appear that easy through the mass media, no doubt (it would be not a long-time planning if they wouldn't care about that previously, come on...) It's put in a way that anyone can see... just look at the fact itself. Demolition - Invasion - War.
> Just another false flag operation... big deal.
>
> Leo Alves Vieira

--Tristan
http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com

---------------------------------
Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
>
> so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).

Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.

> What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)

The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.

> Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).

By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
even one of them giving the game away.

> To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.

My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.

> Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???

I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.

> If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...

I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
be here today.

> Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> Best Regards,
>
> Leo Alves Vieira
>
> www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)

Nice, I like it. Thank you.

--Tristan
http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
be here today."
Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
More important than anything:
"One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
I always say that.
Peace

Leo Alves Vieira

Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
>
> so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).

Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.

> Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???

I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
be here today.

Nice, I like it. Thank you.

--Tristan
http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com

---------------------------------
Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

music has its political power though.
Someone today said Music makes mutations audible

leonardo caldas wrote:
> I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> be here today."
> Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> More important than anything:
> "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> I always say that.
> Peace
> > Leo Alves Vieira
>
>
> Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> >
> > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naivetï¿½ now", but to NOTICE your naivetï¿½ now...
> > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadï¿½, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> even one of them giving the game away.
> > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> be here today.
> > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira
> >
> > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > --Tristan
> http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > > >
> > ---------------------------------
> Novo Yahoo! Cadï¿½? - Experimente uma nova busca. >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
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> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...

yours sincerely,

Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)

Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
Someone today said Music makes mutations audible

leonardo caldas wrote:
> I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> be here today."
> Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> More important than anything:
> "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> I always say that.
> Peace
>
> Leo Alves Vieira
>
>
> Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
> > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> >
> > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
>
> Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
>
> > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
>
> The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
>
> > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
>
> By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> even one of them giving the game away.
>
> > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
>
> My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
>
> > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
>
> I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
>
> > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
>
> I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> be here today.
>
> > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira
> >
> > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
>
> Nice, I like it. Thank you.
>
> --Tristan
> http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
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>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

---------------------------------
Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method of instituting change.
I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up allot of their resources over.
Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it

leonardo caldas wrote:
> You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> > yours sincerely,
>
> Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
>
>
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > be here today."
> > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > More important than anything:
> > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > I always say that.
> > Peace
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> >
> >
> > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > >
> > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naivetï¿½ now", but to NOTICE your naivetï¿½ now...
> > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadï¿½, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > even one of them giving the game away.
> > > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > be here today.
> > > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > >
> > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > > > --Tristan
> > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > Novo Yahoo! Cadï¿½? - Experimente uma nova busca. > >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> > To post to the list, send to
> > metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > -- > Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> > > > >
> > ---------------------------------
> Novo Yahoo! Cadï¿½? - Experimente uma nova busca. >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

I understand what you mean Kraig,

"Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other than simply
not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and the
list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:

Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!

If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"

Anyone?

greetz from Brasil to everyone!

Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)

Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
of instituting change.
I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
allot of their resources over.
Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it

leonardo caldas wrote:
> You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
>
> yours sincerely,
>
> Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
>
>
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > be here today."
> > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > More important than anything:
> > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > I always say that.
> > Peace
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira
> >
> >
> > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > >
> > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> >
> > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> >
> > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> >
> > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> >
> > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> >
> > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > even one of them giving the game away.
> >
> > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> >
> > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> >
> > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> >
> > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> >
> > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> >
> > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > be here today.
> >
> > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > >
> > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> >
> > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> >
> > --Tristan
> > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> >
> > To post to the list, send to
> > metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > You don't have to be a member to post.
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

---------------------------------
Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I know that in Belgium, you are fined if you do not vote. Is that true
in Brazil?
I tend to like the idea..
BTW is Augusto Boal still in politics, i saw him a few years ago doing
some of his theater here AT USC. Amazing stuff. they made mince meat of
a so called liberal council person from Santa Monica.
Here elections are on Tuesday and often people are met with long lines.
It should be on weekend. I always noticed before big elections i would
always have tons of work. So one is tired, and it gives people an
optimistic feeling , so they care less. Two weeks after elections
everything dries up. I have noticed this for a long time. But what good
is a democracy it the different in candidates borders on trivial.

I believe in proportion representation based on any and every category
that can be defined as not a sub-category of already existing ones. Yes
if 10% of the population are meth addicts i think they should be
represented such. It would probably have to be determined by computer to
find the people who would fit. All Bureau heads should also be elected.
that is as far as i have thought it thru.

What is needed is more models to choose from and it is one area artist
as creative people can add to the mix. It is much better and more
positive than left or right takes on things. The whole english free
improv thing is so caught up with this it has become mandatory to the
point of fascism. . Few people are that way. Even Chaney doesn't think
his daughter should be thrown in jail for her sexual preference.

leonardo caldas wrote:
> I understand what you mean Kraig,
>
> "Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
> I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
> What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other than simply
> not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and the
> list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
> That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
> I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
> What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:
>
> Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!
>
> If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
> I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"
>
> Anyone?
>
> greetz from Brasil to everyone!
>
> Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
>
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
> was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
> of instituting change.
> I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
> accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
> allot of their resources over.
> Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
> donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
> of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> > Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> > To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> > Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> >
> > yours sincerely,
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> >
> >
> >
> > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> > Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> >
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > be here today."
> > > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > > More important than anything:
> > > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > > I always say that.
> > > Peace
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > >
> > >
> > > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> > > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > > >
> > > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > >
> > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > >
> > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > >
> > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > >
> > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > >
> > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > > even one of them giving the game away.
> > >
> > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > >
> > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > >
> > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > >
> > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > >
> > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > >
> > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > be here today.
> > >
> > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > >
> > > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > >
> > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > >
> > > --Tristan
> > > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > > metatuning-unsubscribe@...m
> > >
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> > >
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> >
> > --
> > Kraig Grady
> > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> > The Wandering Medicine Show
> > KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
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> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

Yes, true.

Here in Brasil, when someone doesn't vote, not only receives a fine bill (elections take place always on weekends, more than that, election day is a holiday. Despite the fact you cannot drink on this day...hihihihi), but also have fewer chances to get a job and have some civil rights anulated too...
Boal is always in politics, at least, inside his theater making (now and then we can see him on the media, and, fancy that: mostly, in the media channels from abroad, outside Brasil). And yes, he's grand... When i am preparing actors and actresses (on the plays i direct musically and/or compose music to), i use various exercises created by Boal. There are some musical exercices too... He claims that the very first memories we have are brought by sounds, from our mama's woumb, listening to her own heart beating... many claim that is the scent, the smell of things. Whatever, both are very powerful.
HAHAHAHAH: "mince meat of a so called liberal council person" this is great. I should have seen that... i can imagine, however.
I only couldn't understand what do you mean by "The whole english free
improv thing"...
The rest i agree...
cheers,

Leo Alves Vieira
http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (here you can listen to my music by the way...)

Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I know that in Belgium, you are fined if you do not vote. Is that true
in Brazil?
I tend to like the idea..
BTW is Augusto Boal still in politics, i saw him a few years ago doing
some of his theater here AT USC. Amazing stuff. they made mince meat of
a so called liberal council person from Santa Monica.
Here elections are on Tuesday and often people are met with long lines.
It should be on weekend. I always noticed before big elections i would
always have tons of work. So one is tired, and it gives people an
optimistic feeling , so they care less. Two weeks after elections
everything dries up. I have noticed this for a long time. But what good
is a democracy it the different in candidates borders on trivial.

leonardo caldas wrote:
> I understand what you mean Kraig,
>
> "Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
> I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
> What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other than
simply
> not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and the
> list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
> That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
> I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
> What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:
>
> Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!
>
> If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
> I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"
>
> Anyone?
>
> greetz from Brasil to everyone!
>
> Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
>
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
> was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
> of instituting change.
> I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
> accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
> allot of their resources over.
> Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
> donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
> of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> > Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> > To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> > Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> >
> > yours sincerely,
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> >
> >
> >
> > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> > Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> >
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > be here today."
> > > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > > More important than anything:
> > > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > > I always say that.
> > > Peace
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > >
> > >
> > > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
> > > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > > >
> > > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > >
> > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > >
> > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > >
> > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > >
> > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > >
> > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > > even one of them giving the game away.
> > >
> > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > >
> > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > >
> > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > >
> > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > >
> > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > >
> > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > be here today.
> > >
> > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > >
> > > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > >
> > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > >
> > > --Tristan
> > > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
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> > --
> > Kraig Grady
> > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> > The Wandering Medicine Show
> > KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> >
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> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

---------------------------------
Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

It pleases me that Boal is still active and stirring things up. He is
unknown here outside of progressive theater here which mean he is very
unknown. glad that his work has inspired musical application. i would
like to here about this. I have been quite taken with the theater work
of Eugenio Barba and his ideas of theater anthropology.

leonardo caldas wrote:
> Yes, true.
>
> Here in Brasil, when someone doesn't vote, not only receives a fine bill (elections take place always on weekends, more than that, election day is a holiday. Despite the fact you cannot drink on this day...hihihihi), but also have fewer chances to get a job and have some civil rights anulated too...
> Boal is always in politics, at least, inside his theater making (now and then we can see him on the media, and, fancy that: mostly, in the media channels from abroad, outside Brasil). And yes, he's grand... When i am preparing actors and actresses (on the plays i direct musically and/or compose music to), i use various exercises created by Boal. There are some musical exercices too... He claims that the very first memories we have are brought by sounds, from our mama's woumb, listening to her own heart beating... many claim that is the scent, the smell of things. Whatever, both are very powerful.
> HAHAHAHAH: "mince meat of a so called liberal council person" this is great. I should have seen that... i can imagine, however.
> I only couldn't understand what do you mean by "The whole english free
> improv thing"...
> The rest i agree...
> cheers,
>
> Leo Alves Vieira
> http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (here you can listen to my music by the way...)
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I know that in Belgium, you are fined if you do not vote. Is that true
> in Brazil?
> I tend to like the idea..
> BTW is Augusto Boal still in politics, i saw him a few years ago doing
> some of his theater here AT USC. Amazing stuff. they made mince meat of
> a so called liberal council person from Santa Monica.
> Here elections are on Tuesday and often people are met with long lines.
> It should be on weekend. I always noticed before big elections i would
> always have tons of work. So one is tired, and it gives people an
> optimistic feeling , so they care less. Two weeks after elections
> everything dries up. I have noticed this for a long time. But what good
> is a democracy it the different in candidates borders on trivial.
>
> I believe in proportion representation based on any and every category
> that can be defined as not a sub-category of already existing ones. Yes
> if 10% of the population are meth addicts i think they should be
> represented such. It would probably have to be determined by computer to
> find the people who would fit. All Bureau heads should also be elected.
> that is as far as i have thought it thru.
>
> What is needed is more models to choose from and it is one area artist
> as creative people can add to the mix. It is much better and more
> positive than left or right takes on things. The whole english free
> improv thing is so caught up with this it has become mandatory to the
> point of fascism. . Few people are that way. Even Chaney doesn't think
> his daughter should be thrown in jail for her sexual preference.
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > I understand what you mean Kraig,
> >
> > "Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
> > I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
> > What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other than
> simply
> > not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and the
> > list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
> > That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
> > I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
> > What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:
> >
> > Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!
> >
> > If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
> > I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"
> >
> > Anyone?
> >
> > greetz from Brasil to everyone!
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> >
> >
> > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
> > was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
> > of instituting change.
> > I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
> > accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
> > allot of their resources over.
> > Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
> > donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
> > of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it
> >
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> > > Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> > > To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> > > Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> > >
> > > yours sincerely,
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> > > Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> > >
> > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > be here today."
> > > > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > > > More important than anything:
> > > > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > > > I always say that.
> > > > Peace
> > > >
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> > > > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > > > >
> > > > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > > >
> > > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > > > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > > > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > > >
> > > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > > >
> > > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > > > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > > > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > > > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > > >
> > > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > > >
> > > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > > > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > > > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > > > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > > > even one of them giving the game away.
> > > >
> > > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > > >
> > > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > > > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > > > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > > > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > > >
> > > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > > >
> > > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > > > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > > > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > > >
> > > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > > >
> > > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > be here today.
> > > >
> > > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > >
> > > > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > > >
> > > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > --Tristan
> > > > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> > > >
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> > > --
> > > Kraig Grady
> > > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> > > The Wandering Medicine Show
> > > KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
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> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > >
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> > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
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> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> --
> Kraig Grady
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> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

Yes, Barba is great!

I use some exercices from his book too...
Here, not everyone knows him too (he have his 'room' though) ... i guess he have more prestige in Europe, especially France.
Are you an actor, or director?

Leo

Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: It pleases me that Boal is still active and stirring things up. He is
unknown here outside of progressive theater here which mean he is very
unknown. glad that his work has inspired musical application. i would
like to here about this. I have been quite taken with the theater work
of Eugenio Barba and his ideas of theater anthropology.

leonardo caldas wrote:
> Yes, true.
>
> Here in Brasil, when someone doesn't vote, not only receives a fine bill (elections take place always on weekends, more than that, election day is a holiday. Despite the fact you cannot drink on this day...hihihihi), but also have fewer chances to get a job and have some civil rights anulated too...
> Boal is always in politics, at least, inside his theater making (now and then we can see him on the media, and, fancy that: mostly, in the media channels from abroad, outside Brasil). And yes, he's grand... When i am preparing actors and actresses (on the plays i direct musically and/or compose music to), i use various exercises created by Boal. There are some musical exercices too... He claims that the very first memories we have are brought by sounds, from our mama's woumb, listening to her own heart beating... many claim that is the scent, the smell of things. Whatever, both are very powerful.
> HAHAHAHAH: "mince meat of a so called liberal council person" this is great. I should have seen that... i can imagine, however.
> I only couldn't understand what do you mean by "The whole english free
> improv thing"...
> The rest i agree...
> cheers,
>
> Leo Alves Vieira
> http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (here you can listen to my music by the way...)
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I know that in Belgium, you are fined if you do not vote. Is that true
> in Brazil?
> I tend to like the idea..
> BTW is Augusto Boal still in politics, i saw him a few years ago doing
> some of his theater here AT USC. Amazing stuff. they made mince meat of
> a so called liberal council person from Santa Monica.
> Here elections are on Tuesday and often people are met with long lines.
> It should be on weekend. I always noticed before big elections i would
> always have tons of work. So one is tired, and it gives people an
> optimistic feeling , so they care less. Two weeks after elections
> everything dries up. I have noticed this for a long time. But what good
> is a democracy it the different in candidates borders on trivial.
>
> I believe in proportion representation based on any and every category
> that can be defined as not a sub-category of already existing ones. Yes
> if 10% of the population are meth addicts i think they should be
> represented such. It would probably have to be determined by computer to
> find the people who would fit. All Bureau heads should also be elected.
> that is as far as i have thought it thru.
>
> What is needed is more models to choose from and it is one area artist
> as creative people can add to the mix. It is much better and more
> positive than left or right takes on things. The whole english free
> improv thing is so caught up with this it has become mandatory to the
> point of fascism. . Few people are that way. Even Chaney doesn't think
> his daughter should be thrown in jail for her sexual preference.
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > I understand what you mean Kraig,
> >
> > "Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
> > I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
> > What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other than
> simply
> > not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and
the
> > list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
> > That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
> > I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
> > What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:
> >
> > Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!
> >
> > If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
> > I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"
> >
> > Anyone?
> >
> > greetz from Brasil to everyone!
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> >
> >
> > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
> > was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
> > of instituting change.
> > I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
> > accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
> > allot of their resources over.
> > Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
> > donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
> > of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it
> >
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> > > Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> > > To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> > > Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> > >
> > > yours sincerely,
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> > > Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> > >
> > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > be here today."
> > > > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > > > More important than anything:
> > > > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > > > I always say that.
> > > > Peace
> > > >
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@gmail.com> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> > > > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > > > >
> > > > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > > >
> > > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > > > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > > > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > > >
> > > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > > >
> > > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > > > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > > > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > > > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > > >
> > > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > > >
> > > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > > > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > > > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > > > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > > > even one of them giving the game away.
> > > >
> > > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > > >
> > > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > > > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > > > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > > > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > > >
> > > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > > >
> > > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > > > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > > > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > > >
> > > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > > >
> > > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > be here today.
> > > >
> > > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > >
> > > > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > > >
> > > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > --Tristan
> > > > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> > > --
> > > Kraig Grady
> > > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> > > The Wandering Medicine Show
> > > KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> > >
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> > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> > The Wandering Medicine Show
> > KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
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> > Meta Tuning meta-info:
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> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
>
>
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

---------------------------------
Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I have worked in Silent films ( 10 years) , then with shadow
puppets/theater (another 10) .
But it was Partch that brought about my interest in doing both and see
even Barba work as a direct parallel but coming from the theater
background as opposed to Partch starting with music.
But would you mind giving a better idea of exactly what you are doing
there, and how it parallels others there or not. I am sure others beside
myself would be interested.

leonardo caldas wrote:
> Yes, Barba is great!
>
> I use some exercices from his book too...
> Here, not everyone knows him too (he have his 'room' though) ... i guess he have more prestige in Europe, especially France.
> Are you an actor, or director?
>
> Leo
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: It pleases me that Boal is still active and stirring things up. He is
> unknown here outside of progressive theater here which mean he is very
> unknown. glad that his work has inspired musical application. i would
> like to here about this. I have been quite taken with the theater work
> of Eugenio Barba and his ideas of theater anthropology.
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > Yes, true.
> >
> > Here in Brasil, when someone doesn't vote, not only receives a fine bill (elections take place always on weekends, more than that, election day is a holiday. Despite the fact you cannot drink on this day...hihihihi), but also have fewer chances to get a job and have some civil rights anulated too...
> > Boal is always in politics, at least, inside his theater making (now and then we can see him on the media, and, fancy that: mostly, in the media channels from abroad, outside Brasil). And yes, he's grand... When i am preparing actors and actresses (on the plays i direct musically and/or compose music to), i use various exercises created by Boal. There are some musical exercices too... He claims that the very first memories we have are brought by sounds, from our mama's woumb, listening to her own heart beating... many claim that is the scent, the smell of things. Whatever, both are very powerful.
> > HAHAHAHAH: "mince meat of a so called liberal council person" this is great. I should have seen that... i can imagine, however.
> > I only couldn't understand what do you mean by "The whole english free
> > improv thing"...
> > The rest i agree...
> > cheers,
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira
> > http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (here you can listen to my music by the way...)
> >
> > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I know that in Belgium, you are fined if you do not vote. Is that true
> > in Brazil?
> > I tend to like the idea..
> > BTW is Augusto Boal still in politics, i saw him a few years ago doing
> > some of his theater here AT USC. Amazing stuff. they made mince meat of
> > a so called liberal council person from Santa Monica.
> > Here elections are on Tuesday and often people are met with long lines.
> > It should be on weekend. I always noticed before big elections i would
> > always have tons of work. So one is tired, and it gives people an
> > optimistic feeling , so they care less. Two weeks after elections
> > everything dries up. I have noticed this for a long time. But what good
> > is a democracy it the different in candidates borders on trivial.
> >
> > I believe in proportion representation based on any and every category
> > that can be defined as not a sub-category of already existing ones. Yes
> > if 10% of the population are meth addicts i think they should be
> > represented such. It would probably have to be determined by computer to
> > find the people who would fit. All Bureau heads should also be elected.
> > that is as far as i have thought it thru.
> >
> > What is needed is more models to choose from and it is one area artist
> > as creative people can add to the mix. It is much better and more
> > positive than left or right takes on things. The whole english free
> > improv thing is so caught up with this it has become mandatory to the
> > point of fascism. . Few people are that way. Even Chaney doesn't think
> > his daughter should be thrown in jail for her sexual preference.
> >
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > I understand what you mean Kraig,
> > >
> > > "Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
> > > I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
> > > What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other than
> > simply
> > > not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and
> the
> > > list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
> > > That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
> > > I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
> > > What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:
> > >
> > > Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!
> > >
> > > If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
> > > I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"
> > >
> > > Anyone?
> > >
> > > greetz from Brasil to everyone!
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > >
> > >
> > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
> > > was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
> > > of instituting change.
> > > I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
> > > accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
> > > allot of their resources over.
> > > Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
> > > donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
> > > of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it
> > >
> > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> > > > Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> > > > To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> > > > Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> > > >
> > > > yours sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> > > > Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> > > >
> > > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > > be here today."
> > > > > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > > > > More important than anything:
> > > > > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > > > > I always say that.
> > > > > Peace
> > > > >
> > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@....br> wrote:
> > > > > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > > > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > > > >
> > > > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > > > > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > > > > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > > > >
> > > > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > > > >
> > > > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > > > > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > > > > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > > > > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > > > >
> > > > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > > > > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > > > > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > > > > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > > > > even one of them giving the game away.
> > > > >
> > > > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > > > >
> > > > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > > > > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > > > > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > > > > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > > > >
> > > > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > > > > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > > > > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > > > >
> > > > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > > be here today.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > > > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > > >
> > > > > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Tristan
> > > > > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Meta Tuning meta-info:
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > > > > metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
> > > > >
> > > > > To post to the list, send to
> > > > > metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > You don't have to be a member to post.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Kraig Grady
> > > > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> > > > The Wandering Medicine Show
> > > > KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

Nice!

I love Bali shadow puppeteers, and all its region's variants. Unfortunately, i don't know who's Partch...
Anyway, i don't mind giving you a better idea of exactly what i do from Barba's and Boal's theatre into music. If you first show me how does Partch works with it, i'll be glad to reply then. Only, i'll do it tomorrow or in the day next tomorrow, cos now i'll drop myself onto bed... You know, this reply will be pretty extense...
Till next.

Leo

Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I have worked in Silent films ( 10 years) , then with shadow
puppets/theater (another 10) .
But it was Partch that brought about my interest in doing both and see
even Barba work as a direct parallel but coming from the theater
background as opposed to Partch starting with music.
But would you mind giving a better idea of exactly what you are doing
there, and how it parallels others there or not. I am sure others beside
myself would be interested.

leonardo caldas wrote:
> Yes, Barba is great!
>
> I use some exercices from his book too...
> Here, not everyone knows him too (he have his 'room' though) ... i guess he have more prestige in Europe, especially France.
> Are you an actor, or director?
>
> Leo
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: It pleases me that Boal is still active and stirring things up. He is
> unknown here outside of progressive theater here which mean he is very
> unknown. glad that his work has inspired musical application. i would
> like to here about this. I have been quite taken with the theater work
> of Eugenio Barba and his ideas of theater anthropology.
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > Yes, true.
> >
> > Here in Brasil, when someone doesn't vote, not only receives a fine bill (elections take place always on weekends, more than that, election day is a holiday. Despite the fact you cannot drink on this day...hihihihi), but also have fewer chances to get a job and have some civil rights anulated too...
> > Boal is always in politics, at least, inside his theater making (now and then we can see him on the media, and, fancy that: mostly, in the media channels from abroad, outside Brasil). And yes, he's grand... When i am preparing actors and actresses (on the plays i direct musically and/or compose music to), i use various exercises created by Boal. There are some musical exercices too... He claims that the very first memories we have are brought by sounds, from our mama's woumb, listening to her own heart beating... many claim that is the scent, the smell of things. Whatever, both are very powerful.
> > HAHAHAHAH: "mince meat of a so called liberal council person" this is great. I should have seen that... i can imagine, however.
> > I only couldn't understand what do you mean by "The whole english free
> > improv thing"...
> > The rest i agree...
> > cheers,
> >
> > Leo Alves Vieira
> > http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (here you can listen to my music by the way...)
> >
> > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I know that in Belgium, you are fined if you do not vote. Is that true
> > in Brazil?
> > I tend to like the idea..
> > BTW is Augusto Boal still in politics, i saw him a few years ago doing
> > some of his theater here AT USC. Amazing stuff. they made mince meat of
> > a so called liberal council person from Santa Monica.
> > Here elections are on Tuesday and often people are met with long lines.
> > It should be on weekend. I always noticed before big elections i would
> > always have tons of work. So one is tired, and it gives people an
> > optimistic feeling , so they care less. Two weeks after elections
> > everything dries up. I have noticed this for a long time. But what good
> > is a democracy it the different in candidates borders on trivial.
> >
> > I believe in proportion representation based on any and every category
> > that can be defined as not a sub-category of already existing ones. Yes
> > if 10% of the population are meth addicts i think they should be
> > represented such. It would probably have to be determined by computer to
> > find the people who would fit. All Bureau heads should also be elected.
> > that is as far as i have thought it thru.
> >
> > What is needed is more models to choose from and it is one area artist
> > as creative people can add to the mix. It is much better and more
> > positive than left or right takes on things. The whole english free
> > improv thing is so caught up with this it has become mandatory to the
> > point of fascism. . Few people are that way. Even Chaney doesn't think
> > his daughter should be thrown in jail for her sexual preference.
> >
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > I understand what you mean Kraig,
> > >
> > > "Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
> > > I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
> > > What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other
than
> > simply
> > > not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and
> the
> > > list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
> > > That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
> > > I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
> > > What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:
> > >
> > > Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!
> > >
> > > If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
> > > I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"
> > >
> > > Anyone?
> > >
> > > greetz from Brasil to everyone!
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > >
> > >
> > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
> > > was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
> > > of instituting change.
> > > I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
> > > accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
> > > allot of their resources over.
> > > Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
> > > donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
> > > of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it
> > >
> > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> > > > Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> > > > To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> > > > Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> > > >
> > > > yours sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> > > > Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> > > >
> > > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > > be here today."
> > > > > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > > > > More important than anything:
> > > > > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > > > > I always say that.
> > > > > Peace
> > > > >
> > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
> > > > > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > > > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > > > >
> > > > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > > > > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > > > > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > > > >
> > > > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > > > >
> > > > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > > > > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > > > > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > > > > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > > > >
> > > > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > > > > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > > > > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > > > > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > > > > even one of them giving the game away.
> > > > >
> > > > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > > > >
> > > > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > > > > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > > > > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > > > > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > > > >
> > > > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > > > > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > > > > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > > > >
> > > > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > > be here today.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > > > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > > >
> > > > > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Tristan
> > > > > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

---------------------------------
Novo Yahoo! Cadê? - Experimente uma nova busca.

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🔗Aaron K. Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

On the subject of Partch i would start here
http://www.corporeal.com/

leonardo caldas wrote:
> Nice!
>
> I love Bali shadow puppeteers, and all its region's variants. Unfortunately, i don't know who's Partch...
> Anyway, i don't mind giving you a better idea of exactly what i do from Barba's and Boal's theatre into music. If you first show me how does Partch works with it, i'll be glad to reply then. Only, i'll do it tomorrow or in the day next tomorrow, cos now i'll drop myself onto bed... You know, this reply will be pretty extense...
> Till next.
>
> Leo
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I have worked in Silent films ( 10 years) , then with shadow
> puppets/theater (another 10) .
> But it was Partch that brought about my interest in doing both and see
> even Barba work as a direct parallel but coming from the theater
> background as opposed to Partch starting with music.
> But would you mind giving a better idea of exactly what you are doing
> there, and how it parallels others there or not. I am sure others beside
> myself would be interested.
>
> leonardo caldas wrote:
> > Yes, Barba is great!
> > > > I use some exercices from his book too...
> > Here, not everyone knows him too (he have his 'room' though) ... i guess he have more prestige in Europe, especially France.
> > Are you an actor, or director?
> >
> > Leo
> >
> > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: It pleases me that Boal is still active and stirring things up. He is
> > unknown here outside of progressive theater here which mean he is very
> > unknown. glad that his work has inspired musical application. i would
> > like to here about this. I have been quite taken with the theater work
> > of Eugenio Barba and his ideas of theater anthropology.
> >
> > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > Yes, true.
> > >
> > > Here in Brasil, when someone doesn't vote, not only receives a fine bill (elections take place always on weekends, more than that, election day is a holiday. Despite the fact you cannot drink on this day...hihihihi), but also have fewer chances to get a job and have some civil rights anulated too...
> > > Boal is always in politics, at least, inside his theater making (now and then we can see him on the media, and, fancy that: mostly, in the media channels from abroad, outside Brasil). And yes, he's grand... When i am preparing actors and actresses (on the plays i direct musically and/or compose music to), i use various exercises created by Boal. There are some musical exercices too... He claims that the very first memories we have are brought by sounds, from our mama's woumb, listening to her own heart beating... many claim that is the scent, the smell of things. Whatever, both are very powerful.
> > > HAHAHAHAH: "mince meat of a so called liberal council person" this is great. I should have seen that... i can imagine, however.
> > > I only couldn't understand what do you mean by "The whole english free
> > > improv thing"...
> > > The rest i agree...
> > > cheers,
> > >
> > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (here you can listen to my music by the way...)
> > >
> > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: I know that in Belgium, you are fined if you do not vote. Is that true
> > > in Brazil?
> > > I tend to like the idea..
> > > BTW is Augusto Boal still in politics, i saw him a few years ago doing
> > > some of his theater here AT USC. Amazing stuff. they made mince meat of
> > > a so called liberal council person from Santa Monica.
> > > Here elections are on Tuesday and often people are met with long lines.
> > > It should be on weekend. I always noticed before big elections i would
> > > always have tons of work. So one is tired, and it gives people an
> > > optimistic feeling , so they care less. Two weeks after elections
> > > everything dries up. I have noticed this for a long time. But what good
> > > is a democracy it the different in candidates borders on trivial.
> > >
> > > I believe in proportion representation based on any and every category
> > > that can be defined as not a sub-category of already existing ones. Yes
> > > if 10% of the population are meth addicts i think they should be
> > > represented such. It would probably have to be determined by computer to
> > > find the people who would fit. All Bureau heads should also be elected.
> > > that is as far as i have thought it thru.
> > >
> > > What is needed is more models to choose from and it is one area artist
> > > as creative people can add to the mix. It is much better and more
> > > positive than left or right takes on things. The whole english free
> > > improv thing is so caught up with this it has become mandatory to the
> > > point of fascism. . Few people are that way. Even Chaney doesn't think
> > > his daughter should be thrown in jail for her sexual preference.
> > >
> > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > I understand what you mean Kraig,
> > > >
> > > > "Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers"... i just soooo happen to know that! I'm a musician...
> > > > I didn't meant all of us that are not politicians should take politics, literally, 'to our hands' and become one. That's why we live in a democracy. To have skilled professionals to do that job, in other words: represent us. And, as you have said, what a dangerous job!
> > > > What i cannot swallow is: when this person "who-hates-politics-so-much-that-simply-don't-vote-anymore", but, at the sametime, lives under all the benefits of a democracy and yet doesn't believe (not necessarily proselitize for it) in any other political or ideological system, or way of human beings to live toghether for-that-matter, comes up and say "almost proud of" he is out of politics... thats not only no true, from the start, cos it would be a paradoxx... but is the very same hazardous attitude i was pointing out: omission. If i'm wrong on that argument, this person is not REPRESENTED (although, following my theory here, it is always REPRESENTED). At least, this person doesn't cares to be... well, in that case, this person is morally 'out' of the system (which, for me, remains in a paradox in anyway). Even if one comes to me and say: "i don't vote cos i'm an anarchist" is less worse... but if the same don't proselitize for anarchy then, in SOME way other
> than
> > > simply
> > > > not voting, i would say "you're not an anarchist, you're just saying you're one...". Not-voting is a part of democracy (at least, in the USA - here, in Brasil, voting it's an obligation. And i'm against that by the way)... it's there! On the whole scheme and structure of it. So, by doing nothing, inside democracy systems, you get precisely that: you do nothing, you let everybody else (the voters) do this 'something' for ya. Whatever that 'something' is that to be... in the case of the USA: to invade other countries reasonlessly, estabilish dictatorships everywhere, promote false-flag operations - keep only that in mind here: 1962 OFFICIAL plan of the USA to make mock-funerals (only a small part of the plan BTW) of it's OWN soldiers to shock the public opinion and be 'morally able' to, finally, invade CUBA. Well, there's so much more... hmmm, to assassin other country leaders, to drop bombs over innocent people (Iraq, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Afeganistan, Vietnam, and
> > the
> > > > list is increasing...) to promote civil wars in poor countries and work for both sides of the same (!) like, selling guns to both sides is enough... and all in the name of what? Democracy? YES, democracy. You Kraig, Aaron, Tristan (i'm assuming you guys're all from the USA) and all the voters AND non-voters of the United States. Meaning: EVERYONE. Of course, the 'kind' of democracy these guys (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and so on) have in mind is more like the same democracy that lead Hitler into power... or doesn't anyone remember Hitler was VOTED.
> > > > That is precisely what i was saying: I know (or, i hope so) that the great majority of the american people does not think like these guys.
> > > > I agree when you say that people will also gain something out of the story-that-is-challenging the official one. We'll always have someone to profit with each and every story. The thing here goes further my friend. For instance. I've seen both towers collapse alive, on TV. The news channel i was watching (a brazilian one) had this History university teacher to comment everything when all was still happening. The very first thing he pointed out: "That's an inside job".
> > > > What made me so interested in spreading around those videos is that one can watch them without even knowing how to speak, read or understand english, and still figure out the big picture... and that is happening right before my eyes, once i show those videos to various friends here in Brasil. At least, they all agree that was a demolition (pretty obvious that to you Kraig, i assume...). So, the lingering question is:
> > > >
> > > > Why, in the world, the USA authorities still wants people to swallow that was the fire the reason for the WTC collapses? Worse than that, how about WTC7 for-christ-sake!?!
> > > >
> > > > If there wasn't enough temperature levels achieved on the WTC fires to melt steel (and fancy, according to figures of the own official story)... how can the official story be supported in the first place? hmmm i guess that the proper question is why? So, one conclusion leads into another, just by going through the SIMPLE and PLAIN facts themselves.
> > > > I will be very impressed if someone convince me that the USA authorities have a really good reason to hide so much from it's own people.(i think thats very serious). Like, let's forget about the big picture for a while (nazi-relations, imperialism politics and etc.). Let's hear a solid argumented story showing us all WHY the WTC collapses weren't demolitions. I will be even more impressed if one comes here and argue: "hey, and if the USA authorities just happens to know already that was a demolition? and they just don't want to tell that yet?"
> > > >
> > > > Anyone?
> > > >
> > > > greetz from Brasil to everyone!
> > > >
> > > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: Another person remarked also that the first thing the powers to be did
> > > > was convince people that money was evil. In fact it is a a good method
> > > > of instituting change.
> > > > I understand the reluctance to politics and believe more can be
> > > > accomplish by social means which Politics always succumbs to. or uses up
> > > > allot of their resources over.
> > > > Politics takes professionals though as skilled as music makers , so
> > > > donating money is one way to hire one. But any side is more than capable
> > > > of corruption, cause few have been trained to deal with it
> > > >
> > > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > > You've got that RIGHT an Straight Kraig.
> > > > > Furthermore. The simple action lunching (yes, eating something) is political. In the edge of this thinking, but, what i've meant is that one may not be interested in politics, but this same person is 100% of the time DOING politics. The simple fact of saying "i hate politics", "i'm depressed with this conversation (politics)" or worse "i don't practice politics", is POLITIC making itself. The most simple observation is: by letting others (those who don't hate politics) to lead all the political decisions (those which affect their and YOUR life) is to practice their political ways. By omission. That's obvious as saying the sky's blue...
> > > > > To me, that's what happens in the USA. I firmly DON'T believe that the majority of the american people would vote TWICE in a dumbass (not to say worst things) like George Bush. Only a third part (30% lets say) of the entire population of the USA do vote for president, so, i assume that the ones who would have more intelligence, or at least, would be less 'lobotomized' by the mass media (which is really, really powerful) are not voting for president! It almost gives me the will to become a north-american citizen just to do the right thing there godammit...
> > > > > Plus, at least for the first time, we all know that Bush didn't win the elections afterall...
> > > > >
> > > > > yours sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > > Leo Alves Vieira (http://www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> escreveu: music has its political power though.
> > > > > Someone today said Music makes mutations audible
> > > > >
> > > > > leonardo caldas wrote:
> > > > > > I understand all you have to reply to me can be compressed into this sentence of yours: "I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > > > be here today."
> > > > > > Well my friend, that's precisely what i've meant. "THEY" want to feel this depression... at a point that you get away from it. But, you're somme fella that is not entirely feeling that. If that was true, you wouldn't be interested in discussing here in this forum, at least, this topic.
> > > > > > More important than anything:
> > > > > > "One may not like to be involved with politics, BUT, politics will surely be always involved with you" (at least, on a democracy).
> > > > > > I always say that.
> > > > > > Peace
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...> escreveu: On 6/25/07, leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...> wrote:
> > > > > > > You have put in trully and humble way your opinion Rozencrantz... and i aprecciate that. Now i can understand you better...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > so, let's begin by not: "mocking your naiveté now", but to NOTICE your naiveté now...
> > > > > > > see, even in a poor place like Brasil (and i'm not poor of course, but not rich too), we can figure simple things like: "which is the capitol of USA, or Canadá, or Italy, or even African countries". But, how 'in the world' american students, from all ages and classes (economically) don't know how to differ which country Buenos Aires capitol is???? Do you know? (without going to google to confirm?).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Argentina. And I even know how to pronounce it. I've yet to run into a
> > > > > > situation where that was useful to know off the top of my head,
> > > > > > though. It's the sort of thing you can look up in a second.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's that? Media/Education mind-control dude... no less. Naive (in this case) is the person who doesn't know about that yet... I have 29 years old. Since my 8, 9 years old, i'm aware of that. No kidding. And, being honest and respectful with you now: when you say " I don't know how to fit that into my world-view", you show me that kind of Naivety... like: one, in order to have clear view of things and formulate its own opinion, must know that he cannot hold opinions or any pre-conceived world-views for so long... Thats 'ontological' (means: you cannot change your mind fixed in a cristalized view-of-things)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The ideal I strive for is a post-conceived world-view, but that may
> > > > > > not be possible. You must know that there are beliefs so central to
> > > > > > each person that they will say up is down if that's what it takes to
> > > > > > preserve those beliefs. I don't think anyone can escape that entirely.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Second: when you say: "world-view"... do you mean that ALL that happens in the USA has to do with the whole world? Or vice-versa? Like, if the USA was the 'center' of the world? That is a good question... for EVERY american by the way (even those who challenges the official story in this case...).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By world-view I mean the way that I think about the world. It's silly
> > > > > > to think that the USA is the center of the world. What I meant was
> > > > > > that the way I think about the world doesn't have room for so many
> > > > > > people all coming to the same seemingly absurd conclusions, without
> > > > > > even one of them giving the game away.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To a conclusion: american people are taught to care about what happens INSIDE the USA, geographicly, historically and politically. No more than that... so, is not surprising that a smart fella like you (i can see that reading your well balanced arguments and good writting as well) would happen to be on this well-built-structure of mass mind control.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My mind is a small place, and has little room for politics. I've
> > > > > > divided my time between US and Chinese politics, because those are the
> > > > > > ones most relevant to my life plans. US politics because I live here,
> > > > > > and Chinese politics because I plan to move there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Last question. Did you know that ALL latin american dictatorships were CIA/FBI/USA plots???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had suspected as much. I knew on a case-by-case basis that all of
> > > > > > the ones I knew of had been installed by the US, but I always held out
> > > > > > hope that there was one I hadn't heard of that was not installed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you say no, i can advance to ya that you're not reading EVEN US official stories, cos, yesterday, i've just read that the new CIA chief just happened to release this up-till-now-classified informations. And, fancy... just this little info... i'm chatting online/phone with american people since the IRAQ invasion, and nobody believed that. Now we have a confession... 30 years later...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I find politics so phenomenally depressing that I try to avoid it just
> > > > > > out of self defense. If I kept up with all of this I likely wouldn't
> > > > > > be here today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, it's possible that 30 years from now, the same can happen about 9/11...
> > > > > > > Let's hope... NO, LETS MAKE THIS facts to come up FASTER!!!
> > > > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Leo Alves Vieira
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > www.myspace.com/leoalvesvieira (my music... i'm a composer BTW)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nice, I like it. Thank you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Tristan
> > > > > > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

911 truth

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗peteysan@...

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗peteysan@...

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗leonardo caldas <leoalves2002rj@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>