Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning death

I thought god got to tell people who to kill, like Abraham.

if the human race keeps growing the way it is ,
it will kill off the whole species,
if not most of all the others.
less people will solve more problems than trying to solve it when we are overwhelmed
Christopher Bailey wrote:
> Regarding abortion, the Bible is quite clear that killing is allowed.
>
> "Thou shalt not murder". That is not the same thing as killing. If > society sanctions it, then it's fine. Thus, the war in Iraq is OK. And, > if society decides, so is abortion.
>
>
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
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>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗threesixesinarow <music.conx@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
<rozencrantz@...> wrote:
>
> On 10/29/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
> >
> > For those (here or on any other list)that don't believe in
> > life after death...it all ends shortly anyway. War, those
> > you love, everything, from your personal perspective.
> >
> > -Stephen
>
> Ah but just because *my* life ends at death doesn't mean that
nobody
> lives after my death. Quite contrary, the fate of those who
outlive me
> is far more important than my own.
>
> --TRISTAN
=================================================================
Stephen wrote>

TRISTAN

I understand your point of view.

I was just trying to get across the hopelessness of the
"no afterlife" belief system(s).

If there is no afterlife, then everyone has to go back to
their previous state. That is, before they were conceived.
They didn't exist at ALL then.

Eventually all those who loved you would
die and also enter non-existence. They
couldn't remember you because they don't exist anymore
whatsoever, if there is no afterlife.

-Stephen

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

On 11/1/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
> I was just trying to get across the hopelessness of the
> "no afterlife" belief system(s).
>
> If there is no afterlife, then everyone has to go back to
> their previous state. That is, before they were conceived.
> They didn't exist at ALL then.
>
> Eventually all those who loved you would
> die and also enter non-existence. They
> couldn't remember you because they don't exist anymore
> whatsoever, if there is no afterlife.

They don't have to remember me. That I have done my darndest to make
the world better for future generations is enough. Pure compassion
here, the thought that I've made the world worse for someone, even if
they aren't born yet, even if I'll be dead when they come around, is a
frightful one.

And philisophical objections aside, the practical results of Atheism
(as evidenced by my bestest friend in the whole wide world who is such
an awesome guy I can't even describe it) are quite encouraging.

--TRISTAN
Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...>

🔗ambassadorbob <peteysan@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
wrote:

Yo Kraig!

I read somewhere that until one truly accepts the possibility of
death as annihilation, one will not progress on the spiritual path.
I tend to agree! (smile...and serious ;-)

It's at least a little interesting to me to note that
many "Atheists" are as eager to claim a "moral high ground" as
anyone else...

I don't know of _anyone_ who's earned the right to such a claim...my
own personal 'role models' included... (smile)

Salud, Dinero, y Amor, (spoken to someone who sneezes three times in
a row :-)

>
> yes at least atheist take responsibility for things instead of
assuming
> some other force will.
> Their a belief in some form of Jewish mysticism that there is an
aspect
> of god that does not reveal itself until one has gotten to this
point.
>
>
> Rozencrantz the Sane wrote:
> >
> >
> > And philisophical objections aside, the practical results of
Atheism
> > (as evidenced by my bestest friend in the whole wide world who
is such
> > an awesome guy I can't even describe it) are quite encouraging.
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "ambassadorbob" <peteysan@...>
wrote:

The link below (if it works) gives anyone interested
a discussion about life, death, God, etc.

This will take you to a discussion in the Religion forum.

There are varied opinions expressed.

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=170&t=13014&st=20

This shows all the threads in the forum:

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=SF&f=170

-Stephen

=============================================================
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@>
> wrote:
>
> Yo Kraig!
>
> I read somewhere that until one truly accepts...

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

On 11/8/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "ambassadorbob" <peteysan@...>
> wrote:
>
> The link below (if it works) gives anyone interested
> a discussion about life, death, God, etc.
>
> This will take you to a discussion in the Religion forum.
>
>
> There are varied opinions expressed.
>
> http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=170&t=13014&st=20

There certainly are, none of them especially convincing, but I'm
reminded of a short fragment from "House of Leaves" that I found
profoundly disturbing. Bear in mind that this should only be viewed as
a thought-experiment, not as something I believe really happens:

(paraphrased) Navidson finds himself in a large, doorless, windowless
room with people shuffling about, sitting on the floor, or dangling
their feet in a large well at the center of the room.

Here are the rules of the place: You can stay in the room for as long
as you want. Some people have been there for centuries. There is only
one way out: at any time, you may jump into the well, at which point
you are judged. If you are deemed worthy, by some unknowable standard,
then the blue light takes you to a heaven. If you are judged lacking,
then you continue to fall through viscous, choking liquid in complete
darkness forever.

Since the standard is hidden from everyone, there is no way to be
certain whether or not you should jump. It is generally known that the
large room is far better than the well, but far worse than the blue
light. If you were the judge, would you let yourself through? It
doesn't matter what you believe the standard is, because it's the same
for everyone, and nobody knows it.

Remember, even if someone says "If you prayed to Jesus, you'll get
through" and then jumps and goes through, that's not proof, because
they might also have given money to charity, or refrained from dancing
after midnight. There are too many variables to ever know for sure if
you should jump.

--TRISTAN
Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com

🔗kevin ryan <bentivi_cdo@...>

that was one of the only books that's ever given me
chills...

also, the boredoms rock. The stuff Yamatsuka Eye did
with Naked City is pretty amazing too. It's actually
a type of music that I'm not drawn to very often, but
that I appreciate as something unique and gruesomely
beautiful.

--- Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>
wrote:

> On 11/8/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>
> wrote:
> > --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "ambassadorbob"
> <peteysan@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > The link below (if it works) gives anyone
> interested
> > a discussion about life, death, God, etc.
> >
> > This will take you to a discussion in the
> Religion forum.
> >
> >
> > There are varied opinions expressed.
> >
> >
>
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=170&t=13014&st=20
>
> There certainly are, none of them especially
> convincing, but I'm
> reminded of a short fragment from "House of Leaves"
> that I found
> profoundly disturbing. Bear in mind that this should
> only be viewed as
> a thought-experiment, not as something I believe
> really happens:
>
> (paraphrased) Navidson finds himself in a large,
> doorless, windowless
> room with people shuffling about, sitting on the
> floor, or dangling
> their feet in a large well at the center of the
> room.
>
> Here are the rules of the place: You can stay in the
> room for as long
> as you want. Some people have been there for
> centuries. There is only
> one way out: at any time, you may jump into the
> well, at which point
> you are judged. If you are deemed worthy, by some
> unknowable standard,
> then the blue light takes you to a heaven. If you
> are judged lacking,
> then you continue to fall through viscous, choking
> liquid in complete
> darkness forever.
>
> Since the standard is hidden from everyone, there is
> no way to be
> certain whether or not you should jump. It is
> generally known that the
> large room is far better than the well, but far
> worse than the blue
> light. If you were the judge, would you let yourself
> through? It
> doesn't matter what you believe the standard is,
> because it's the same
> for everyone, and nobody knows it.
>
> Remember, even if someone says "If you prayed to
> Jesus, you'll get
> through" and then jumps and goes through, that's not
> proof, because
> they might also have given money to charity, or
> refrained from dancing
> after midnight. There are too many variables to ever
> know for sure if
> you should jump.
>
> --TRISTAN
> Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
> http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

TRISTAN wrote>

> There certainly are, none of them especially convincing, but I'm
> reminded of a short fragment from "House of Leaves" that I found
> profoundly disturbing. Bear in mind that this should only be
viewed as
> a thought-experiment, not as something I believe really happens:
>
> (paraphrased) Navidson finds himself in a large, doorless,
windowless
> room with people shuffling about, sitting on the floor, or dangling
> their feet in a large well at the center of the room.
>
> Here are the rules of the place: You can stay in the room for as
long
> as you want.

Stephen wrote>

++++++++++ I know this is a thought experiment. In real life
we can't stay in this "room" as long as we want.

============================================================

We say that the hour of death cannot be forecast. But when we say
this, we imagine that the hour is placed in an obscure and distant
future. It never occurs to us that it has any connection with the
day already begun, or that death could arrive this same afternoon -
this afternoon which is so certain...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0195714/quotes

=============================================================

TRISTAN wrote>

Some people have been there for centuries. There is only
> one way out: at any time, you may jump into the well, at which
point
> you are judged. If you are deemed worthy, by some unknowable
standard,
> then the blue light takes you to a heaven.

Stephen wrote>

+++++++ I can tell you the standard right now. Perfection.
What is below is a post I made at another forum
pasted here:

Stephen wrote>

What I'm saying, is that since perfection is the minimum to get into
Heaven, and no one can be perfect, no one can be
good enough to earn entrance into Heaven. Christianity, true
Christianity is NOT a works religion. If you somehow could, by
strength of will, never sin again in your life, you are still
imperfect. You have already sinned in the past. It is too late to
become perfect. If you did 1,000,000 good things you can not make up
for a single sin.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From Ephesians Chapter 2:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...er=2&version=49

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God;

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Stephen wrote>

The Father sent His only Son to die for everyone on Earth. A sinless
man was sent to die for all of us sinfull
men and women. The Father did this out of love.

A demon's perspective (From Screwtape Letter XIX):

All His talk about Love must be a disguise for something elseHe
must have some real motive for creating them and taking so much
trouble about them. The reason one comes to talk as if He really had
this impossible Love is our utter failure to out that real motive.
What does He stand to make out of them? That is the insoluble
question...We know that He cannot really love: nobody can: it
doesn't make sense.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
This was written about Jesus (in Revelation Chapter 5)

And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book
and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for
God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and
nation.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...er=5&version=49

===============================================================

TRISTAN wrote>

There are too many variables to ever know for sure if
you should jump.

Stephen wrote> There is no choice in reality. Everyone dies.

-Stephen

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

On 11/11/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
>
> TRISTAN wrote>
>
> > There certainly are, none of them especially convincing, but I'm
> > reminded of a short fragment from "House of Leaves" that I found
> > profoundly disturbing. Bear in mind that this should only be
> viewed as
> > a thought-experiment, not as something I believe really happens:
> >
> > (paraphrased) Navidson finds himself in a large, doorless,
> windowless
> > room with people shuffling about, sitting on the floor, or dangling
> > their feet in a large well at the center of the room.
> >
> > Here are the rules of the place: You can stay in the room for as
> long
> > as you want.
>
> Stephen wrote>
>
> ++++++++++ I know this is a thought experiment. In real life
> we can't stay in this "room" as long as we want.

The story was about judgment, not death. Ultimately, you have to judge
yourself in order to live at peace, the story is about the difficulty
in determining

>
> TRISTAN wrote>
>
> Some people have been there for centuries. There is only
> > one way out: at any time, you may jump into the well, at which
> point
> > you are judged. If you are deemed worthy, by some unknowable
> standard,
> > then the blue light takes you to a heaven.
>
> Stephen wrote>
>
> +++++++ I can tell you the standard right now. Perfection.
> What is below is a post I made at another forum
> pasted here:

Did you understand nothing I just said? The Bible is just one book,
and it not only contradicts other books out there, it contradicts
physical reality. You can't get me to believe a book by quoting
excerpts from it. You think the book is true, well good for you, but I
do not, so if you tell me something that is only backed up by that
book, why should I believe you?

You're even contradicting the book. The standard isn't perfection, the
standard is "Perfection or Belief in Jesus".

> TRISTAN wrote>
>
> There are too many variables to ever know for sure if
> you should jump.
>
> Stephen wrote> There is no choice in reality. Everyone dies.

Jumping isn't dying. Jumping is accepting yourself as you are, saying
"I'm good enough," and submitting yourself to judgment. "I am only as
good as I can be, and if I am found lacking then there is nothing to
be done."

--TRISTAN
Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

> >
> > TRISTAN wrote>
> >
> > Some people have been there for centuries. There is only
> > > one way out: at any time, you may jump into the well, at which
> > point
> > > you are judged. If you are deemed worthy, by some unknowable
> > standard,
> > > then the blue light takes you to a heaven.
> >
> > Stephen wrote>
> >
> > +++++++ I can tell you the standard right now. Perfection.
> > What is below is a post I made at another forum
> > pasted here:

TRISTAN wrote>
>
> Did you understand nothing I just said? The Bible is just one book,
> and it not only contradicts other books out there, it contradicts
> physical reality. You can't get me to believe a book by quoting
> excerpts from it. You think the book is true, well good for you,
but I
> do not, so if you tell me something that is only backed up by that
> book, why should I believe you?

Stephen wrote> I go by the Bible. I was told by someone I knew
many years ago, that he knew of a man that believed
that if a person's good deeds out-weighed their
evil deeds they would go to Heaven. There are
perhaps an infinite number of false ways. When I
post something along these lines I want people
to at least know where it came from. Many people
out there don't even know what Christianity is
about.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Of course the Bible contradicts other books.
------------------------------------------------------------

If by "it contradicts physical reality" you
mean that miracles occur. I believe miracles
occur. (I'm not really sure what you meant by
this comment however.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

I can't make you believe that Jesus is the way.
The Father may move. I try to be hopeful for people.

---------------------------------------------------------------

TRISTAN wrote>

>
> You're even contradicting the book. The standard isn't perfection,
the
> standard is "Perfection or Belief in Jesus".

Stephen wrote> God sees Christians as sinless. Even though
a given Christian may sin, his/her record has
been and is continually expunged.

Christians have been shown by God that we couldn't save
ourselves. We have accepted the gift of Jesus dying for us.

More scripture below (if you have time/desire to read it)
{Large print indicates it has a Old Testament reference}

==============================================================

9then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away
the first in order to establish the second.

10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the
body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after
time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT
DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,

13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A
FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.

14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are
sanctified.

From Hebrews Chapter 10

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&version=49
=================================================================

sanctify means purify

-Stephen

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

It was left out that the Bible not only contradicts other books and
physical reality, but itself.

Stephen, this is the ONE TRUE religion:

http://www.venganza.org/

-A.

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak" <stephen_szpak@...>
wrote:
>
> > >
> > > TRISTAN wrote>
> > >
> > > Some people have been there for centuries. There is only
> > > > one way out: at any time, you may jump into the well, at which
> > > point
> > > > you are judged. If you are deemed worthy, by some unknowable
> > > standard,
> > > > then the blue light takes you to a heaven.
> > >
> > > Stephen wrote>
> > >
> > > +++++++ I can tell you the standard right now. Perfection.
> > > What is below is a post I made at another forum
> > > pasted here:
>
> TRISTAN wrote>
> >
> > Did you understand nothing I just said? The Bible is just one book,
> > and it not only contradicts other books out there, it contradicts
> > physical reality. You can't get me to believe a book by quoting
> > excerpts from it. You think the book is true, well good for you,
> but I
> > do not, so if you tell me something that is only backed up by that
> > book, why should I believe you?
>
> Stephen wrote> I go by the Bible. I was told by someone I knew
> many years ago, that he knew of a man that believed
> that if a person's good deeds out-weighed their
> evil deeds they would go to Heaven. There are
> perhaps an infinite number of false ways. When I
> post something along these lines I want people
> to at least know where it came from. Many people
> out there don't even know what Christianity is
> about.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Of course the Bible contradicts other books.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> If by "it contradicts physical reality" you
> mean that miracles occur. I believe miracles
> occur. (I'm not really sure what you meant by
> this comment however.)
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I can't make you believe that Jesus is the way.
> The Father may move. I try to be hopeful for people.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> TRISTAN wrote>
>
> >
> > You're even contradicting the book. The standard isn't perfection,
> the
> > standard is "Perfection or Belief in Jesus".
>
> Stephen wrote> God sees Christians as sinless. Even though
> a given Christian may sin, his/her record has
> been and is continually expunged.
>
> Christians have been shown by God that we couldn't save
> ourselves. We have accepted the gift of Jesus dying for us.
>
> More scripture below (if you have time/desire to read it)
> {Large print indicates it has a Old Testament reference}
>
> ==============================================================
>
> 9then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away
> the first in order to establish the second.
>
> 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the
> body of Jesus Christ once for all.
>
> 11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after
> time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
>
> 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT
> DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
>
> 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A
> FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
>
> 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are
> sanctified.
>
> From Hebrews Chapter 10
>
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&version=49
> =================================================================
>
> sanctify means purify
>
> -Stephen
>

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

On 11/11/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:

> Stephen wrote> I go by the Bible. I was told by someone I knew
> many years ago, that he knew of a man that believed
> that if a person's good deeds out-weighed their
> evil deeds they would go to Heaven. There are
> perhaps an infinite number of false ways. When I
> post something along these lines I want people
> to at least know where it came from. Many people
> out there don't even know what Christianity is
> about.

But can't you see that you have no authority to say which way is
false? You go by the Bible, someone else goes by the Koran, someone
else goes by the Urantia Book. I go by a different system altogether.
There is nothing in this world, absolutely nothing that indicates that
any one of these systems is the absolute truth.

You don't know. I don't know. If you think you know, that's called hubris.

--TRISTAN
Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, kevin ryan <bentivi_cdo@...>
wrote:

Kevin (or anyone)

As I've written before, I go to Pandora a lot.
You probably know about it.

You can instantly create a "station" with the music you want.
They have lots of music. I don't think they have *every* song
by any artist you might think of. They do seem to have at least
one or two. (Sometimes several depending on popularity I guess.)

In case you don't know about Pandora, I just created a station
called Naked City. These songs came up in the sequence below.

First was:

Slaughterhouse/Chase Sequence by Naked City
Television Fission by Man or Astro-Man?
Call by Curlew
The Falafel King by Djam Karet
Blood is Thin by Naked City
Small Red Dance by Curlew
Land of the Unknown by Bluestingrays
A Shot in the Dark by Naked City
Blue Pietro by UI
L'espace Au Sol Est Redessin?Par D'immenses Panneaux Bleus
by Fly Pan Am
Five Too Many by Tortoise
Semi-Alert bu Euphone
Nepenthe by Cul De Sac
The Air-Conditioned Nightmare by Steve Hackett
Timebox by Tone
Faulty Outlet by Greg Howe

Pandora only offers a few songs by Naked City. Samples of all
songs, and the few they actually will play are here:

http://www.pandora.com/music/album/c2f153a371480c75

You can create a station with one group or song
OR
more than one group or song using Quick Mix.

(You can also create more stations. Confused? It's free
to use and easier to try out, than for me to explain.
Customer Support gets back to me 9 times out of 10.)

----------------------------------------------------------------
There is tons of music at:

http://www.purevolume.com/

But one has to wade through it all.

Videos at purevolume:

http://www.purevolume.com/videos

Top 100 signed artists:

http://www.purevolume.com/charts/top100/plays/signed/

Top 100 unsigned artists:

http://www.purevolume.com/charts/top100/plays/unsigned/

You can also search in various ways:

http://www.purevolume.com/search

Forums here:

http://www.purevolume.com/forums/

-Stephen
----------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin wrote>

>
> that was one of the only books that's ever given me
> chills...
>
> also, the boredoms rock. The stuff Yamatsuka Eye did
> with Naked City is pretty amazing too. It's actually
> a type of music that I'm not drawn to very often, but
> that I appreciate as something unique and gruesomely
> beautiful.

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
<rozencrantz@...> wrote:
>
> On 11/11/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
>
> > Stephen wrote> I go by the Bible. I was told by someone I knew
> > many years ago, that he knew of a man that
believed
> > that if a person's good deeds out-weighed their
> > evil deeds they would go to Heaven. There are
> > perhaps an infinite number of false ways. When I
> > post something along these lines I want people
> > to at least know where it came from. Many people
> > out there don't even know what Christianity is
> > about.
>
TRISTAN wrote>

> But can't you see that you have no authority to say which way is
> false? You go by the Bible, someone else goes by the Koran, someone
> else goes by the Urantia Book. I go by a different system
altogether.
> There is nothing in this world, absolutely nothing that indicates
that
> any one of these systems is the absolute truth.
>
> You don't know. I don't know. If you think you know, that's called
hubris.
>
> --TRISTAN
> Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
> http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com
>
Stephen wrote> TRISTAN isn't it hubris on your part to be so
sure I must be wrong?

-Stephen

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
<rozencrantz@...> wrote:
>
> On 11/11/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > --TRISTAN
> > > Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
> > > http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com
> > >
> > Stephen wrote> TRISTAN isn't it hubris on your part to be so
> > sure I must be wrong?
> >
>
TRISTAN wrote>

> I DON'T KNOW EITHER. But you have not shown any reason to believe
that
> your way is any better than any of a multitude of other ways. I
won't
> say any other way, because there are ways that are clearly worse,
but
> that's beside the point.
>
> --TRISTAN

As long as you are not totally sure I'm wrong, then there is hope.

"any better" is not the point. The truth is what matters.

All evolution really says is that God didn't make humanity.
Humanity came from a life-less rock. There was no life on Earth,
way back then. Not even a single DNA molecule. Yet you are
the result of life coming from a rock. Foolish.

If you personally
decide to go the evolution route, then you HAVE to believe that
you are no more valuable than a ant you might carelessly step on.
An objective (not valid of course) view of those you love is the
same. Just random meaningless lives. No purpose. This is all
evolution CAN bring.

-Stephen

🔗Rozencrantz the Sane <rozencrantz@...>

On 11/11/06, stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
> As long as you are not totally sure I'm wrong, then there is hope.

As long as you are totally sure I'm wrong, there is no hope.

> "any better" is not the point. The truth is what matters.

And you have absolutely no way of demonstrating that your way is any
truer than any other way.

> All evolution really says is that God didn't make humanity.
> Humanity came from a life-less rock. There was no life on Earth,
> way back then. Not even a single DNA molecule. Yet you are
> the result of life coming from a rock. Foolish.

More foolish than saying that you're the result of a petty, vindictive
god that created beings that he knew (being omniscient) could never
live up to his standards? A god that you have no empirical evidence
for, and that violates every known fact about the way things really do
work?

> If you personally
> decide to go the evolution route, then you HAVE to believe that
> you are no more valuable than a ant you might carelessly step on.
> An objective (not valid of course) view of those you love is the
> same. Just random meaningless lives. No purpose. This is all
> evolution CAN bring.

Bull. Haven't you ever heard of a watchmaker god? It could set the
cosmos in motion with a clearly defined path, including evolution.

Beside that, I am capable of giving my life my own meaning, this is
what Maslow called "self actualization" and it is something
miraculous: My own definition of success, my own standards, and
standards that are possible to meet. I can win, wheras a Christian
always has to settle for a technicality. A life in which you can never
live up to your standards, no matter how hard you try: That is
meaningless.

--TRISTAN
Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com

death

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