reading music

Does anyone here have trouble reading music?

I'm refering to timing only. Has anyone given
up on reading music (as they play it)?

-Stephen

stephenszpak wrote:
> Does anyone here have trouble reading music?

That's a negative way of looking at it! I'm capable of reading music in that I can puzzle it (staff notation or guitar tabs) out and extract some kind of meaning.

> I'm refering to timing only. Has anyone given
> up on reading music (as they play it)?

I'm not capable of sight reading music. I don't like to think I've given up but I don't expect I'll become a competent musician in this lifetime.

When writing music, I prefer to keep the rhythms simple, and then adjust them to sound right in whatever digital thingumy I'm using to play it. That may be a 16th Century kind of attitude.

Graham

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <gbreed@...> wrote:
>
Graham

Thanks for responding. I kinda thought I was the only one.

My problem at the moment is this. (not sure if I can express
it correctly though). I have quarter notes in the F clef,
let's say 2. I have a triplet in the G clef. The only way
I can get the timing right is by accident. Same problem when
I was a teenager. I've come up with a super slow way of getting
the timing right. It has no practical use however.

I count to 12 at each quarter note (so, to 24 if there are two).
Each note of the triplet gets 8. So 1,8, 16 (24) for the triplet,
and 1, 12 (24) for the quarter notes. So, I'm counting to 24.

With 4/4 time I would count to 48. I tried this for a day or
two. I don't have any other ideas.

Anyone can respond,

- Stephen

> stephenszpak wrote:
> > Does anyone here have trouble reading music?
>
> That's a negative way of looking at it!

Hi Stephen and Grahm,

The way to play cross rhythms is to:
1. multiply (in this case 3 x 2)
2. then map out 6 points on a line
3. beam groups of three on the top
4. beam groups of two on the bottom with accents on the first of each group
5. strike two hands on one, pause on two, alternate right-left-right, pause on six; and repeat
6. eventually you hear a rhythm that is developed and which you can use to play cross rhthms in real time.

good adventures! Johnny

-----Original Message-----
From: stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>
To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:59:11 -0000
Subject: [metatuning] Re: reading music

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <gbreed@...> wrote:
>
Graham

Thanks for responding. I kinda thought I was the only one.

My problem at the moment is this. (not sure if I can express
it correctly though). I have quarter notes in the F clef,
let's say 2. I have a triplet in the G clef. The only way
I can get the timing right is by accident. Same problem when
I was a teenager. I've come up with a super slow way of getting
the timing right. It has no practical use however.

I count to 12 at each quarter note (so, to 24 if there are two).
Each note of the triplet gets 8. So 1,8, 16 (24) for the triplet,
and 1, 12 (24) for the quarter notes. So, I'm counting to 24.

With 4/4 time I would count to 48. I tried this for a day or
two. I don't have any other ideas.

Anyone can respond,

- Stephen

> stephenszpak wrote:
> > Does anyone here have trouble reading music?
>
> That's a negative way of looking at it!

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Stephen,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak" <stephen_szpak@...>
wrote:
> My problem at the moment is this. (not sure if I can express
> it correctly though). I have quarter notes in the F clef,
> let's say 2. I have a triplet in the G clef. The only way
> I can get the timing right is by accident.

I am *beyond* certain I could get you to master this in very little
time - 3 against 2 is the easiest hemiola or cross-rhythm to teach. I
simply need to know exactly what you are asking. For instance:

- straight quarter notes in the left hand (bass clef)
- quarter note triplets in the right hand (treble clef)

If you will just identify the two rhythms as to what notes they
constitute (note that you said you "have a triplet in the G clef" but
you don't say whether it is a quarter, half, or eight triplets.

It sounds as though your reading is rudimentary, but reading music is
a skill that anyone can learn, and is unfortunately one of those
skills in life that depends on spending time doing it, in a slow and
methodical manner. Since I've been playing music since I was 8 years
old, and have been doing it professionally for 30, you think the
mystery would be over. But I'm a dedicated teacher, and work with
students of all ages, at all skill levels, on just these subjects.
Even a skill like sight-reading can wax and wane, depending on how
much you've been doing. When I was doing a lot of studio work, you
really never knew what would come in the door and have to be virtually
sight-read correctly at the drop of a hat. I always kept a stack of
various books - violin, flute, guitar, etc - piled up next to my
marimba, and would sight-read an hour a day if I could spend it. The
main goal is to *never* go back over something, but to really "read it
at sight" - take it at a slow enough tempo that you could read the
notes and rhythms 100% correct. Not glamorous, but it works.

I'm not kidding, Stephen - 2:3 is one you can learn with both a
counting scheme and practice. For anyone who is advanced, there is a
great book on polyrhythms (with a CD of the examples) by Pete Magadini.

Cheers,
Jon

> My problem at the moment is this. (not sure if I can express
> it correctly though). I have quarter notes in the F clef,
> let's say 2. I have a triplet in the G clef. The only way
> I can get the timing right is by accident. Same problem when
> I was a teenager. I've come up with a super slow way of getting
> the timing right. It has no practical use however.
>
> I count to 12 at each quarter note (so, to 24 if there are two).
> Each note of the triplet gets 8. So 1,8, 16 (24) for the triplet,
> and 1, 12 (24) for the quarter notes. So, I'm counting to 24.
>
> With 4/4 time I would count to 48. I tried this for a day or
> two. I don't have any other ideas.

You only need to count to 3*2 = 6. Each quarter note gets
3, each triplet note 2. Provided these are 1/4-note triplets
we're talking about.

This method needn't stay slow -- you can speed it up gradually.
That should cause you to internalize the sound of the relation.

For my part, I can read trumpet music pretty well, and SATB
hymns and such at the piano, but not anything harder. At least
not at full speed at first.

One thing that helped get me from suck suck to merely suck was
rhythm cards

http://www.musanim.com/mam/rthmcrds.htm

-Carl

Hi Stephen,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak" <stephen_szpak@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <gbreed@> wrote:
> >
> Graham
>
> Thanks for responding. I kinda thought I was the only one.
>
> My problem at the moment is this. (not sure if I can express
> it correctly though). I have quarter notes in the F clef,
> let's say 2. I have a triplet in the G clef. The only way
> I can get the timing right is by accident. Same problem when
> I was a teenager. I've come up with a super slow way of getting
> the timing right. It has no practical use however.
>
> I count to 12 at each quarter note (so, to 24 if there are two).
> Each note of the triplet gets 8. So 1,8, 16 (24) for the triplet,
> and 1, 12 (24) for the quarter notes. So, I'm counting to 24.
>
> With 4/4 time I would count to 48. I tried this for a day or
> two. I don't have any other ideas.

It's actually quite easy to learn how to do what you're
describing, which is called "hemiola" from the Greek term
for 1 + 1/2.

** hit the "Reply" button to see this formatted properly: **

You describe this:

| | |
count 1 2 3 G-clef triplets

1 2 F-clef quarter-notes
| |

If you include the sub-beat triplet eighth-notes which are
the common pulse for these two rhythms, your count goes like this:

| | | | | |
count 1 & 2 & 3 & G-clef triplets

1 & a 2 & a F-clef quarter-notes
| | | | | |

You can then combine both rhythms into one in either of
two different ways, using either method of counting:

basing count on G-clef:

| | | |
count 1 2 & 3

basing count on F-clef:

1 a 2 &
| | | |

After playing with both hands and counting (it works best
if you start very slowly and actually count out loud),
you'll eventually feel the composite rhythm and as you
practice it more and more, you'll be able to just play
automatically by feeling it, without having to
intellectualize it any more.

And then you can learn how to combine any other combination
of rhythms using the same method, and if you practice them
all, you'll be monster sight-reader who can play any
rhythm anyone can throw at you.

And that's actually quite important, i think.

I personally teach my students that rhythm is the most
important aspect of playing music, precisely because
(for one example i use) pitch is more of an intellectual
mind thing, whereas rhythm is mostly a "feel" body thing.
So if you are performing and you make a pitch mistake
(hitting the wrong piano key, etc.), but keep going without
stopping and don't try to correct the mistake, most listeners
will not even notice that a mistake occurred, and those who
do notice will probably forget about it by the time the
performance ends. On the other hand, if a mistake in the
rhythm is made, everyone immediately feels that something
is wrong. Most music has some type of "flow" to it, in time,
and when that sense of flow is interrupted it is usually
a jarring listening experience.

Of course there are aspects of both types of sensory
response which are relevant for both aspects of music,
but in general i think this is correct.

-monz