Harmony vs. Scales

Kraig wrote:

>>
>>Historically ( not that history needs or should be the finally word)
>>harmonies have been the result of scales and melodic movement, not the
>>other way around.
>>

true true. What I said was specifically in the context of writing a piece
that's [mostly] about juicy harmonies, rather than juicy melodic
movement. In the former case, I have (so far), found "sieving" the
OT-series to be very satisfying. . .the point being to find those
xenharmonic intervals at higher limits (7, 11, 13, etc.)

Especially if one is dealing with supposedly "atonal" sonorities like
"016" chords (that I mentioned in an earlier thread), and so on, just
grabbing the closest 5-limit approximation is boring to me. . . but using
a 7- or 11- limit interpretation gives those chords life and color.
Plus, one has the possibility of making an "atonal" sonority into a
"distant tonal" sonority, so to speak. In other words, doing exactly what
Schonberg talked about, but never really did (to my ear anyway.) (With a
few exception in Erwartung, etc.)

But of course, one can find interesting harmonies in any scale, sure.

>>
>> Even though i compose starting form both points of
>>departure, i keep wondering why i bother to start with harmonies at all
>>since those results are less satisfying to myself.
>>

Interesting. . . I think of "Stolen Stars" as being a largely "vertical"
work . . .surely you were thinking harmonically there? Or perhaps that's
just the way it sounds to me.

Hi Christopher!
I wasn't contradicting your approach as , as i said i do think along similar lines and your examples quite make sense to me. i was going somewhat tangentially in my comments, in looking at a perspective upon our activity more in the hope of soliciting either like or dislike comments.
The Stolen Stars is the result of three completely different pieces that i superimposed in much the same way that Cage did with some of his work. On a basic tuning level it does illustrate that one cannot get beyond a certain dissonant level working with a particular scale of Mt. Meru. In which case it allows one to write lines that free up the melodic lines from counterpuntal restrictive rules in a sense.
i agree that the result is a "vertical" mass, but was not conceived of such, in the individual piece. The first part is limited to a 7 tone scale that probably might be best to be thought of as a pentatonic with two tones that have alternative tones that beat with each other. I like playing with the idea of having two adjacent instruments that have scales in unison except at particular points. somewhere in-between our use of scales and the indonesians where the whole scale might having a beating pair. the piece for two vibraphones taken as the opening music from my shadow plays is based on 9 tone cycles within the metaslendro. Drawing upon a pelog idea in the slendro context. Being a live recording, it is some what unfortunate that one cannot hear that it is two vibraphones hocketing, each player given from 4-7 possible dyads to play at will in each section.the piece for low meru bars uses all the tones with 3 players each having 4 tones which they choose at will playing the particular patterns. I have been honored that Christopher Hobbs has been using this as an example in his instrument building classes

Christopher Bailey wrote:

>Kraig wrote:
>
> >
>>>Historically ( not that history needs or should be the finally word)
>>>harmonies have been the result of scales and melodic movement, not the
>>>other way around.
>>>
>>> >>>
>
>true true. What I said was specifically in the context of writing a piece >that's [mostly] about juicy harmonies, rather than juicy melodic >movement. In the former case, I have (so far), found "sieving" the >OT-series to be very satisfying. . .the point being to find those >xenharmonic intervals at higher limits (7, 11, 13, etc.)
>
>Especially if one is dealing with supposedly "atonal" sonorities like >"016" chords (that I mentioned in an earlier thread), and so on, just >grabbing the closest 5-limit approximation is boring to me. . . but using >a 7- or 11- limit interpretation gives those chords life and color. >Plus, one has the possibility of making an "atonal" sonority into a >"distant tonal" sonority, so to speak. In other words, doing exactly what >Schonberg talked about, but never really did (to my ear anyway.) (With a >few exception in Erwartung, etc.)
>
>But of course, one can find interesting harmonies in any scale, sure.
>
>
> >
>>>Even though i compose starting form both points of >>>departure, i keep wondering why i bother to start with harmonies at all
>>>since those results are less satisfying to myself. >>>
>>> >>>
>
>Interesting. . . I think of "Stolen Stars" as being a largely "vertical" >work . . .surely you were thinking harmonically there? Or perhaps that's >just the way it sounds to me.
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles