buzz-buzz

....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg
temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)

http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg

Enjoy!
--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

Hey Aaron,

{you wrote...}
>....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg
>temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)

Actually, if it reminds me of anyone it would be Prokofiev! Yet another in a growing batch of pieces that are quite AKJ. I have to say that the tuning was not a really big feature of this, in my ears, but that is always of lesser importance than the calibre of the music itself, which is high and well-crafted.

We have a VERY wide range of styles/tastes/genres on this list (just as DWJ alluded to), and you've got the classicist bag pretty much nailed down. I think about so much of the weak micro music I've heard in the past, and it really is great to hear so many strong voices coming to the fore in the last couple years. All this on top of Margo posting multi-track ogg files - it's either the Golden Age ahead or signs of the Apocalypse...

Boffo.

Cheers,
Jon

P.S. Your next assignment, should you accept it Mr. Phelps, is to record that for us in real-time! :)

Wow, Aaron,

This is a knockout piece. It really moves along nicely. Great stuff!
The intonation sneaks up on you cleverly. Before you know it there is
something there, but you don't know how you got there, or what it is.

Excellent!

Prent Rodgers

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
<akjmicro@c...> wrote:
>
> ....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg
> temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
>
> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
>
> Enjoy!
> --
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.divi
debypi.com

Aaron,
I'm trying to understand Neidhardt-Marpurg. It is similar to 12 equal,
except for several notes that are 1.95 cents high?
http://www.tunelab-world.com/tempers/tempers.html&e=7388
shows this:

A 0.00
A# 1.95
B 1.95
C 0.00
C# 1.95
D 1.95
D# 0.00
E 1.95
F 1.95
F# 0.00
G 1.95
G# 1.95

Prent

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
<akjmicro@c...> wrote:
>
> ....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg
> temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
>
> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
>
> Enjoy!
> --
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.dividebypi.com

On Monday 28 February 2005 11:22 pm, Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
> Hey Aaron,
>
> {you wrote...}
>
> >....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg
> >temperament. (one could also say this is after Nancarrow)
>
> Actually, if it reminds me of anyone it would be Prokofiev!

Yes....this is true, although the Rimsky element was the reference to
"bumblebee"

> Yet another in
> a growing batch of pieces that are quite AKJ. I have to say that the tuning
> was not a really big feature of this, in my ears, but that is always of
> lesser importance than the calibre of the music itself, which is high and
> well-crafted.

Thanks!

> We have a VERY wide range of styles/tastes/genres on this list (just as DWJ
> alluded to), and you've got the classicist bag pretty much nailed down. I
> think about so much of the weak micro music I've heard in the past, and it
> really is great to hear so many strong voices coming to the fore in the
> last couple years. All this on top of Margo posting multi-track ogg files -
> it's either the Golden Age ahead or signs of the Apocalypse...

Since Bush is office, and there are movies starring Uma Thurman and John
Travolta making comic light of sick gang violence, it's the apocalypse.

> P.S. Your next assignment, should you accept it Mr. Phelps, is to record
> that for us in real-time! :)

I'll get Mark-Andre Hamelin for that.

Best,
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

Hi Prent,

I'm pretty sure this is bogus information. No way C-E would be tuned
wide of ET in a historical well-temperament. Post your question to
the tuning list and I'm sure you'll get the correct spec for
Neidhardt-Marpurg tuning.

-Paul

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Prent Rodgers"
<prentrodgers@c...> wrote:
>
> Aaron,
> I'm trying to understand Neidhardt-Marpurg. It is similar to 12
equal,
> except for several notes that are 1.95 cents high?
> http://www.tunelab-world.com/tempers/tempers.html&e=7388
> shows this:
>
> A 0.00
> A# 1.95
> B 1.95
> C 0.00
> C# 1.95
> D 1.95
> D# 0.00
> E 1.95
> F 1.95
> F# 0.00
> G 1.95
> G# 1.95
>
> Prent
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
> <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> >
> > ....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-
Marpurg
> > temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
> >
> > http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
> >
> > Enjoy!
> > --
> > Aaron Krister Johnson
> > http://www.akjmusic.com
> > http://www.dividebypi.com

This is very impressive. always the type of stuff i find hardest to write ( very fast moving melodic lines). i too tend to hear it closer to Prokofiev and Shostakovitch. The cadence at the end is great

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:

>....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg >temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
>
>http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
>
>Enjoy!
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

On Wednesday 02 March 2005 08:27 am, Prent Rodgers wrote:
> Wow, Aaron,
>
> This is a knockout piece. It really moves along nicely. Great stuff!
> The intonation sneaks up on you cleverly. Before you know it there is
> something there, but you don't know how you got there, or what it is.
>
> Excellent!

Thanks for listening and for your kind comments, Prent!

I look forward, as always, to your next knockout piece in Csound...

Best,
Aaron.

> Prent Rodgers
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
>
> <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> > ....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg
> > temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
> >
> > http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
> >
> > Enjoy!
> > --
> > Aaron Krister Johnson
> > http://www.akjmusic.com
> > http://www.divi
>
> debypi.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

On Wednesday 02 March 2005 08:34 am, Prent Rodgers wrote:
> Aaron,
> I'm trying to understand Neidhardt-Marpurg. It is similar to 12 equal,
> except for several notes that are 1.95 cents high?
> http://www.tunelab-world.com/tempers/tempers.html&e=7388
> shows this:
>
> A 0.00
> A# 1.95
> B 1.95
> C 0.00
> C# 1.95
> D 1.95
> D# 0.00
> E 1.95
> F 1.95
> F# 0.00
> G 1.95
> G# 1.95

That's right, you got it.....so it's a subtle tuning, to say the least.

Best,

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

Aaron, that's one of the most human-sound MIDI renditions I think I've ever heard! Very nice dynamics and articulation. How did you get it to sound so natural? Really enjoyed the piece.

- Dave

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:
> > ....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg > temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
> > http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
> > Enjoy!

On Wednesday 02 March 2005 06:22 pm, Dave Seidel wrote:
> Aaron, that's one of the most human-sound MIDI renditions I think I've
> ever heard! Very nice dynamics and articulation. How did you get it to
> sound so natural? Really enjoyed the piece.

Dave,

The piece was improvised with a metronome at something close to half the tempo
then sped up. The human-ness is a result of the fact that I am a human,
although on some days I think it would be great to be a cyborg.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Best,
Aaron.

> - Dave
>
> Aaron K. Johnson wrote:
> > ....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-Marpurg
> > temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
> >
> > http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
> >
> > Enjoy!
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

A,

{you wrote...}
>The piece was improvised...

WAIT A MINUTE!!! That is *improvised*? Holy crap, Aaron, your musical forms and structures are running deep in your DNA to come up with something like that.

I'm selling my gear. :)

Cheers,
Jon

On Wednesday 02 March 2005 10:13 pm, Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
> A,
>
> {you wrote...}
>
> >The piece was improvised...
>
> WAIT A MINUTE!!! That is *improvised*? Holy crap, Aaron, your musical forms
> and structures are running deep in your DNA to come up with something like
> that.

Thanks! The simple fact is, there's no way I could put pen to paper that fast.
So alot of what I do takes advantage of the fact that MIDI can capture ideas
so quickly. I do alot of that kind of stuff nowadays. Most of it neever sees
the light of day, cause I trash it, thinking it sucks.

Now if I could just finish my 19-tet fugue, which is giving me a headache.
I've just about given up on it, thinking it sounds too square; not enough
syncopated suspensions a-la Bach.

> I'm selling my gear. :)

Schucks....don't sell your gear. Then you wouldn't be able to come up with
your cool stuff, more of which needs to pass our ears these days, speaking of
which!....

Best,

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

I likewise are impressed this was improvised. you are just a fingered tipped logos aren't you!

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:

>On Wednesday 02 March 2005 10:13 pm, Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
> >
>>A,
>>
>>{you wrote...}
>>
>> >>
>>>The piece was improvised...
>>> >>>
>>WAIT A MINUTE!!! That is *improvised*? Holy crap, Aaron, your musical forms
>>and structures are running deep in your DNA to come up with something like
>>that.
>> >>
>
>Thanks! The simple fact is, there's no way I could put pen to paper that fast. >So alot of what I do takes advantage of the fact that MIDI can capture ideas >so quickly. I do alot of that kind of stuff nowadays. Most of it neever sees >the light of day, cause I trash it, thinking it sucks.
>
>Now if I could just finish my 19-tet fugue, which is giving me a headache.
>I've just about given up on it, thinking it sounds too square; not enough >syncopated suspensions a-la Bach.
>
> >
>>I'm selling my gear. :)
>> >>
>
>Schucks....don't sell your gear. Then you wouldn't be able to come up with >your cool stuff, more of which needs to pass our ears these days, speaking of >which!....
>
>Best,
>
>Aaron Krister Johnson
>http://www.akjmusic.com
>http://www.dividebypi.com
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:34:53 -0000
> From: "Prent Rodgers" <prentrodgers@...>
> Subject: Re: buzz-buzz
>
>
> Aaron,
> I'm trying to understand Neidhardt-Marpurg. It is similar to 12 equal,
> except for several notes that are 1.95 cents high?
> http://www.tunelab-world.com/tempers/tempers.html&e=7388
> shows this:
>
> A 0.00
> A# 1.95
> B 1.95
> C 0.00
> C# 1.95
> D 1.95
> D# 0.00
> E 1.95
> F 1.95
> F# 0.00
> G 1.95
> G# 1.95
>
> Prent

Hi, there, Prent (and Aaron and Paul), and first let me say that I like
the piece, especially the part with fifths and/or fourths at around
0:33-0:35. A limitation of mine -- not this fine music! -- is that given
my sensitivity to variations in dynamics, I find myself turning the volume
knob a lot to hear the quiet parts while keeping the louder parts within a
range of comfort. Of course, such dynamic variations are the very feature
after which the pianoforte is named! -- so an apology for my quirk. Aaron,
your stylistic acumen and variety is really something, as we see and hear
once again!

Now for the tuning, with Scala as often an invaluable source of
information: this is the Neidhardt-Marpurg-de Morgan temperament of 1858,
a kind of nifty variation on 12-equal that nuances it a bit, and very
cleverly. The basic idea is that you take the 12 fifths of the circle and
temper them in groups of three (going up the chromatic scale):

C-G just
C#-G# -1/12 Pythagorean comma
D-A -1/6 Pythagorean comma
Eb-Bb just
E-B -1/12 Pythagorean comma
F-C -1/6 Pythagorean comma
F#-C# just
G-D -1/12 Pythagorean comma
Ab-Eb -1/6 Pythagorean comma
A-E just
Bb-F -1/12 Pythagorean comma
B-F# -1/6 Pythagorean comma

As Scala shows, all minor thirds are as in 12-equal, but major thirds vary
a bit, sometimes 1/12 Pythagorean comma either narrower or wider than
12-equal. Thus we get a bit of key color, although not, as you pointed
out, Paul, in a classic well-temperament scheme with the "nearest keys"
such as C the closest to 5-limit thirds.

This is one example of what authors might have meant in the Victorian
period when they talked about "shades of equal temperament."

Again, a neat historical tuning from the Romantic Era for a neat piece!

Peace and love,

Margo

Wow, Aaron, I'm definitely impressed! As a non-keyboard player, I tend to assume that MIDI is generated from a score. Very cool.

- Dave

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 March 2005 10:13 pm, Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
> >>A,
>>
>>{you wrote...}
>>
>>
>>>The piece was improvised...
>>
>>WAIT A MINUTE!!! That is *improvised*? Holy crap, Aaron, your musical forms
>>and structures are running deep in your DNA to come up with something like
>>that.
> > > Thanks! The simple fact is, there's no way I could put pen to paper that fast. > So alot of what I do takes advantage of the fact that MIDI can capture ideas > so quickly. I do alot of that kind of stuff nowadays. Most of it neever sees > the light of day, cause I trash it, thinking it sucks.
> > Now if I could just finish my 19-tet fugue, which is giving me a headache.
> I've just about given up on it, thinking it sounds too square; not enough > syncopated suspensions a-la Bach.
> > >>I'm selling my gear. :)
> > > Schucks....don't sell your gear. Then you wouldn't be able to come up with > your cool stuff, more of which needs to pass our ears these days, speaking of > which!....
> > Best,
> > Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.dividebypi.com

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter
<mschulter@c...> wrote:
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:34:53 -0000
> > From: "Prent Rodgers" <prentrodgers@c...>
> > Subject: Re: buzz-buzz
> >
> >
> > Aaron,
> > I'm trying to understand Neidhardt-Marpurg. It is similar to 12
equal,
> > except for several notes that are 1.95 cents high?
> > http://www.tunelab-world.com/tempers/tempers.html&e=7388
> > shows this:
> >
> > A 0.00
> > A# 1.95
> > B 1.95
> > C 0.00
> > C# 1.95
> > D 1.95
> > D# 0.00
> > E 1.95
> > F 1.95
> > F# 0.00
> > G 1.95
> > G# 1.95
> >
> > Prent
>
> Hi, there, Prent (and Aaron and Paul), and first let me say that I
like
> the piece, especially the part with fifths and/or fourths at around
> 0:33-0:35. A limitation of mine -- not this fine music! -- is that
given
> my sensitivity to variations in dynamics, I find myself turning the
volume
> knob a lot to hear the quiet parts while keeping the louder parts
within a
> range of comfort. Of course, such dynamic variations are the very
feature
> after which the pianoforte is named! -- so an apology for my quirk.
Aaron,
> your stylistic acumen and variety is really something, as we see
and hear
> once again!
>
> Now for the tuning, with Scala as often an invaluable source of
> information: this is the Neidhardt-Marpurg-de Morgan temperament of
1858,

1858! Hmm . . . no one mentioned de Morgan! I saw Neidhardt and
Marpurg only -- and assumed that any tuning created during their
lifetime would follow the traditional well-tempering pattern. Weren't
they both long gone by 1858?

As usual, I'll have to listen to the music later. Doubt I'll be able
to hear the slight deviations from 12-equal in this tuning.

Dave,

{you wrote...}
>As a non-keyboard player, I tend to assume that MIDI is generated from a >score. Very cool.

As a percussionist, I use both a traditional keyboard (controller) as well as midi percussion pads for input. I'm the opposite of you: I can't imagine midi without the midi cable! :)

(well, actually, I *can* imagine it...)

Cheers,
Jon

Neat. Actually, I'm also starting to do stuff using MIDI knobs/sliders as the main inputs, running with real-time Csound. Art Hunkins has arranged two of my pieces to work that way. One of them is here[1], and the other is a live performance version of Gemini Nebula[2]. Art has a bunch of cool pieces that work that way.

- Dave

[1] http://mysterybear.net/article/6/cloud-dragon
[2] http://www31.brinkster.com/abhunkins/ (latest piece, at the top, I'll post it on my site too as soon as I make the time)

Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
> Dave,
> > {you wrote...}
> >>As a non-keyboard player, I tend to assume that MIDI is generated from a >>score. Very cool.
> > > As a percussionist, I use both a traditional keyboard (controller) as well > as midi percussion pads for input. I'm the opposite of you: I can't imagine > midi without the midi cable! :)
> > (well, actually, I *can* imagine it...)
> > Cheers,
> Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
<akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> ...
> Now if I could just finish my 19-tet fugue, which is giving me a
headache.
> I've just about given up on it, thinking it sounds too square; not
enough
> syncopated suspensions a-la Bach.

Aaron, please don't give up on it. You got off to a great start with
it, and IMO this has the potential of being one of your very best.

If there's anything "square" about it, I'd say it's the timbre. Why
not change it to that wonderful harpsichord sound that, by now, you
think many of us should be tired of hearing (but aren't :-)! Or else
get some good baroque organ sound-fonts for a more majestic sound
that will also allow you to have a big, powerful ending; note that
Bach's "little" (ha!) g-minor organ fugue starts off simple, but ends
grandiose!

Put it on the shelf for now, if you have to, but please don't write
it off. Those things on which we must expend the greatest amount of
labor often become our most prized accomplishments. (And play and/or
listen to Bach's organ fugues every now and then for inspiration.)

BTW, I've been playing catch-up lately downloading a tremendous lot
of things from months back, and your compositions are among my most
favorite. I noticed that Harem (from Peer Gynt), which I'd like to
have, isn't at:
http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/
... an oversight, I hope?

Best,

--George

Thanks for the encouragement, George....and I'll put up Harem when I have a
second to breath....

Best,
Aaron

On Friday 04 March 2005 02:06 pm, George D. Secor wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
>
> <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> > ...
> > Now if I could just finish my 19-tet fugue, which is giving me a
>
> headache.
>
> > I've just about given up on it, thinking it sounds too square; not
>
> enough
>
> > syncopated suspensions a-la Bach.
>
> Aaron, please don't give up on it. You got off to a great start with
> it, and IMO this has the potential of being one of your very best.
>
> If there's anything "square" about it, I'd say it's the timbre. Why
> not change it to that wonderful harpsichord sound that, by now, you
> think many of us should be tired of hearing (but aren't :-)! Or else
> get some good baroque organ sound-fonts for a more majestic sound
> that will also allow you to have a big, powerful ending; note that
> Bach's "little" (ha!) g-minor organ fugue starts off simple, but ends
> grandiose!
>
> Put it on the shelf for now, if you have to, but please don't write
> it off. Those things on which we must expend the greatest amount of
> labor often become our most prized accomplishments. (And play and/or
> listen to Bach's organ fugues every now and then for inspiration.)
>
> BTW, I've been playing catch-up lately downloading a tremendous lot
> of things from months back, and your compositions are among my most
> favorite. I noticed that Harem (from Peer Gynt), which I'd like to
> have, isn't at:
> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/
> ... an oversight, I hope?
>
> Best,
>
> --George
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

Hi folks,

Margo called me to partially correct me. According to her sources,
Neidhardt did indeed propose this scale/tuning. Marpurg, on the other
hand, probably only proposed a *rotation* of it, one which would
conform to the historical well-temperament pattern.

Here is a great paper which deals very carefully and intelligently
with this contentious topics:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/paulpoletti/T4D.PDF

None of the Neidhardt tunings in this paper have a C-E major third
tuned wide of 400 cents, but I don't think this paper claims to be
complete.

In any case, I think those interested in the topic would be extremely
well served by reading this paper.

And thanks to Margo for the correction.

-Paul

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Prent,
>
> I'm pretty sure this is bogus information. No way C-E would be
tuned
> wide of ET in a historical well-temperament. Post your question to
> the tuning list and I'm sure you'll get the correct spec for
> Neidhardt-Marpurg tuning.
>
> -Paul
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Prent Rodgers"
> <prentrodgers@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Aaron,
> > I'm trying to understand Neidhardt-Marpurg. It is similar to 12
> equal,
> > except for several notes that are 1.95 cents high?
> > http://www.tunelab-world.com/tempers/tempers.html&e=7388
> > shows this:
> >
> > A 0.00
> > A# 1.95
> > B 1.95
> > C 0.00
> > C# 1.95
> > D 1.95
> > D# 0.00
> > E 1.95
> > F 1.95
> > F# 0.00
> > G 1.95
> > G# 1.95
> >
> > Prent
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
> > <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> > >
> > > ....an etude for MIDI piano after Rimsky-Korsakov, in Neidhardt-
> Marpurg
> > > temperament. (one could aslo say this is after Nancarrow)
> > >
> > > http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/buzz-buzz.ogg
> > >
> > > Enjoy!
> > > --
> > > Aaron Krister Johnson
> > > http://www.akjmusic.com
> > > http://www.dividebypi.com