A sampling of samplers?

Hey List!

So, I just *know* that some of you are experienced with samplers, either hardware or software based; what I'd like is any big tips on a purchase. I'm leaning to an actual hardware box for now, as I can put it in my mobile rack for when I need to cobble sounds for the orchestra or opera (tuned gongs, large church bells, sound effects) without fussing with the laptop.

One thing I'm considering is what *was* near-top of the line, say, two years ago. This way I'll be fairly current, compatability-wise, and I don't have _huge_ demands to make of the box, but won't have to pay for the absolute cutting edge. Also, I'll probably plan on preparing the samples in the digital realm on the computer, rather then relying on the sampler for too much editing.

Any suggestions *gratefully* appreciated...

Cheers,
Jon

K2500 with KDFX (the effects card).

Don't know their current price but with the introduction of the K2600
its dropped considerably.

Gorgeous sound and easily microtuned.

The only disadvantage is that samples specifically for the Kurzweill
use their own proprietary format which none of the new software
samplers can use. So your sample library is useless say in Giga
Sampler or Unity.

Having used GigaSampler for more than a month now I have become very
spoiled. It is so easy to switch samples, make things multitimbral
easily adjust midi channels etc. But if you are sure you want to go
the hardware route make sure you check out the K2500.

Oh and I know you were just teasing with me. And I'm usually not so
transparent with my methods, but it was useful for me, at least, to
remember "I create " So easy to forget and go into victimhood...

Peace,
Mary

.
>
> My Akai drives me insane. There's got to be something better than
> this.

Agreed. Same with the Kurzweill in transferring samples from the
computer to it, either through SCsI or midi. Even wwhen everything
is lined up correctly with all the various identifiers, it still
takes forever. And if the power goes off you lose everything (kind
of like russian roullete) And to save samples you have modified in
the sampler itself you get to do the whole drill backwards.

>I'm going to upgrade the PC this year and go software. Looking
> at the Unity DS-1 or Giga-Sampler (like Sister Mary).

One very cool thing with GigaSampler is that it is very easy to
assign the same sample to 16 channels, something you need to do if
you are working with FTS which sends the pitch bend information on
different channels. On the Kurzweill it is rather tedious to have to
set all 16 channels to the same sample. Another cool thing is that
it can read wav files and make a quick sample map of them.

That means all your acid CD's are now part of your sample library,
among other things.

BTW I haven't had very good experiences with Unity on the MAc -
constantly crashes and didn't sound very good to my ears, when all
was said and done.

>Mary - can Giga
> do true Mono-Legato Mode? Where you can hold down one note and
trill
> another above and below without retriggering the attack???

I tried this and I didn't hear any retriggering, so I think it can.

> > Any suggestions *gratefully* appreciated...
>
Jacky I wonder if sharing the music is making us more telepathic, or
at least on the same wavelength! Just saw you latest question to
Paul and I had exactly the same question. I had taken out Excel and
actually tried subsituting different numerators, and wasn't getting
the same results, and was about to pose it myself.

Mary

In-Reply-To: <9pg7le+gc79@...>
Mary wrote:

> One very cool thing with GigaSampler is that it is very easy to
> assign the same sample to 16 channels, something you need to do if
> you are working with FTS which sends the pitch bend information on
> different channels. On the Kurzweill it is rather tedious to have to
> set all 16 channels to the same sample. Another cool thing is that
> it can read wav files and make a quick sample map of them.

I take it GigaSampler doesn't support tuning tables then? I can't
remember if I asked before.

> BTW I haven't had very good experiences with Unity on the MAc -
> constantly crashes and didn't sound very good to my ears, when all
> was said and done.

Firstly, thanks to Jacky for mentioning the Unity DS-1. See
<http://www.bitheadz.com/>. We know this does support full keyboard
tuning tables, and they even advertise it, so it would be my first choice
as a software sampler, if I decide Kyma isn't right for the job.

I suppose I could use the demo to test Windows stability, but in what way
doesn't the sound quality compare?

> >Mary - can Giga
> > do true Mono-Legato Mode? Where you can hold down one note and
> trill
> > another above and below without retriggering the attack???
>
> I tried this and I didn't hear any retriggering, so I think it can.

This is important too, one of the things Kyma doesn't support.

Graham

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., graham@m... wrote:

> I take it GigaSampler doesn't support tuning tables then? I can't
> remember if I asked before.

It doesn't have any built in tuning tables, if that is what you
mean. But it reads pitchbend information fine. I have it working
beautifully with FTS which means I can use any Scala scale I desire,
and then orchestrte it to my herts desire. I still seem to have some
problem sending pitchbend information from ProTools (Mac) through the
Unitors, and I haven't traced it down.

>
> I suppose I could use the demo to test Windows stability, but in
what way
> doesn't the sound quality compare?

I've had Unity since it first came out, and I've never used it for a
finished piece so tht should tell you something. When I have gotten
it running and listened to the same samples played by it and through
a K2500 the Unity sounds thin and fake. As you can tell its on
my "Bad" list of software. But I've never tried it on the PC side so
you could have a different experience.

I've mentionned this resource before but if you want opinions on
software and hardware, for both Mac and PC, use Digidesign's Search
the DUC. Try typing in Unity and see what you find

http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

And I still want a Kyma :-)

Peace,
Mary

In-Reply-To: <9phuj8+f172@...>
Mary wrote:

> > I take it GigaSampler doesn't support tuning tables then? I can't
> > remember if I asked before.
>
> It doesn't have any built in tuning tables, if that is what you
> mean. But it reads pitchbend information fine. I have it working
> beautifully with FTS which means I can use any Scala scale I desire,
> and then orchestrte it to my herts desire. I still seem to have some
> problem sending pitchbend information from ProTools (Mac) through the
> Unitors, and I haven't traced it down.

I wouldn't want such an expensive sampler to be tied down by having to
work with pitch bends.

> I've had Unity since it first came out, and I've never used it for a
> finished piece so tht should tell you something. When I have gotten
> it running and listened to the same samples played by it and through
> a K2500 the Unity sounds thin and fake. As you can tell its on
> my "Bad" list of software. But I've never tried it on the PC side so
> you could have a different experience.

Does that mean Unity doesn't play back what you feed in, or is the K2500
doing a better job of improving the sound? I don't expect this will be OS
dependent.

> I've mentionned this resource before but if you want opinions on
> software and hardware, for both Mac and PC, use Digidesign's Search
> the DUC. Try typing in Unity and see what you find
>
>
> http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

People don't like the stability, usability and performance, but they
always compare it to more expensive products. No complaints about the
sound quality.

> And I still want a Kyma :-)

So get one :) Or keep waiting for the obvious hardware upgrade with
on-board hard disk.

Graham

> I wouldn't want such an expensive sampler to be tied down by having
to
> work with pitch bends.

Could you explain that more. I don't understand that limitation,
especially when it is spread out over 16 channels. I've never
noiticed it interfering with timing, for instance.
>
> Does that mean Unity doesn't play back what you feed in, or is the
K2500
> doing a better job of improving the sound?

Most likely the latter. The KDFX effects unit on the K2500 is
awesome , in my opinion, and worth putting up with the hardware
hassles. For instance you can modulate any parameter of the effect
you are using with any midi controller, so you can use pitchbend data
to modulate delay times, for one example. Gigasampler has a kind of
motley crew of effects processors, nothing to write home about.

> So get one :) Or keep waiting for the obvious hardware upgrade
with
> on-board hard disk.

I need space to add it, and a free computer slots. Hopefully my new
studio will be finished by spring and then it will be one of my first
purchases.

BTW if you search KYMA on the DUC it tends to get very high praise.
>
>
Peace,
Mary

In-Reply-To: <9pi3jo+os6m@...>
Mary wrote:

> > I wouldn't want such an expensive sampler to be tied down by having
> to
> > work with pitch bends.
>
> Could you explain that more. I don't understand that limitation,
> especially when it is spread out over 16 channels. I've never
> noiticed it interfering with timing, for instance.

It means you have to run 2 extra programs: FTS and MidiYoke. And I don't
know if you can relay from a sequencer with multiple channels yet. Also,
the sequencer has to talk to MidiYoke instead of the synthesizer, and the
relaying program has to release the keyboard input channel. It makes
everything simpler not to have to do all this.

> Most likely the latter. The KDFX effects unit on the K2500 is
> awesome , in my opinion, and worth putting up with the hardware
> hassles. For instance you can modulate any parameter of the effect
> you are using with any midi controller, so you can use pitchbend data
> to modulate delay times, for one example. Gigasampler has a kind of
> motley crew of effects processors, nothing to write home about.

Yes, I can use Kyma for clever effects, a software sampler would either be
for large sample sets that exceed the Capybara's RAM, or for extra
real-time polyphony. The former isn't really a problem so far, and for
the latter I can use my AWE64's hardware synth (with digital output) if I
can be bothered to use pitch bend tuning and edit the SoundFonts.

> > So get one :) Or keep waiting for the obvious hardware upgrade
> with
> > on-board hard disk.
>
> I need space to add it, and a free computer slots. Hopefully my new
> studio will be finished by spring and then it will be one of my first
> purchases.

Indeed, you will need a PCI slot. I use an external modem which helps for
that. The Capybara can be rackmounted, which keeps it out of the way, but
if you want it any distance from the PC remember to ask for a long cable.

> BTW if you search KYMA on the DUC it tends to get very high praise.

It is a good system, but with some silly weaknesses like not having a Mono
mode, which I might ask them about over the weekend. I'm also finding it
doesn't work with hard disk multitracking. I don't know what the problem
is there. If you aren't trying to run your entire studio with it, I
expect you'll find it very powerful and efficient.

While I'm on the subject, how are people getting on with audio sequencing?
What kind of system do you need to get 4 or 8 stereo tracks?

Graham