Re: [MMM] Peace Gongs

Jacky,

Super nice. I like the almost Partch-like instrumentation and feel.

I love this kind of stuff.

Peace,
GZ

Hi Jacky

Its beautiful and fluid. Did you use any sort of timbre shaping on
the gongs? Also what exactly is the scale you use for 29 limit.
Would 29 TET be considered in the family of 29 limit, as well as 37
tet be in the family of 37 limit?

Could you also talk more about how you use Latin Squares ? Are they
the same as magic squares where the horizontal, vertical and diagonal
sum to the same number?

I too really like the way Kraig Grady uses rthym, and tht is why I
became interested in the Golden Horagrams more as rythmic templates
than even as tuning generators.

Peace,
Mary

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., nanom3@h... wrote:
> Hi Jacky
>
> Its beautiful and fluid. Did you use any sort of timbre shaping on
> the gongs? Also what exactly is the scale you use for 29 limit.
> Would 29 TET be considered in the family of 29 limit, as well as 37
> tet be in the family of 37 limit?

Not at all, Mary. This is the type of thing you may want to discuss
on the main tuning list. Very quickly: N-limit JI means that the
frequency ratios are fractions of numbers whose odd or prime factors
are all N or less. N-tET means that the frequency ratios are all
irrational; specifically, they are all 2^(x/N), where x is an integer.

>
>
> May I inquire if you have ever explored polymetrical structures in
> your compositions?
>

Yes, alot. In Tiers of Yearning, at the end of the 3rd mvmt. there is a 5/8
ostinato on the viola and a 7/8 ostinato in the percussion (aluminum tubes).

I just finished a four-handed piano w/ alto flute piece which uses an
asymetric canon in 6/4, 13/8, and 7/4 time. This piece will premiere in New
York on Oct. 30th at the Cutting Room.

Polymetric is some serious fun. Like listening to the Mayan calendar rounds.
I actually composed a piece a zillion years ago with the three major Mayan
calendars. A thousand years in 260 bars at 200 bpm. Whew.

Polyanna,
GZ

Hi Paul

Since this is practical music here its probably a good as place as
any to discuss misconceptions :-)

I see the flaw in my reasoning. I though 29 TET was 1/29, 2/29, 3/29
etc since that is 29 equal divisions of the octave.

However there is a higher power at work here :-) The steps in 29 tet
should actually be described as 2 ^ x/29 which will always be an
irrational number.

Just intonation is rational, N-Tet is irrational. Aha ...

Thank you Paul

I always treasure my ahas:-)

Mary

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., nanom3@h... wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
> Since this is practical music here its probably a good as place as
> any to discuss misconceptions :-)
>
> I see the flaw in my reasoning. I though 29 TET was 1/29, 2/29,
3/29
> etc since that is 29 equal divisions of the octave.
>
> However there is a higher power at work here :-) The steps in 29
tet
> should actually be described as 2 ^ x/29 which will always be an
> irrational number.
>
> Just intonation is rational, N-Tet is irrational. Aha ...
>
> Thank you Paul
>
> I always treasure my ahas:-)
>
> Mary

Now if you want to get into the relationship between ETs and JIs, the
place to do that would be the main tuning list, or tuning-math. For
example, many people use those particular ETs which approximate JI
well: e.g. 19-tET and 34-tET for 5-limit JI; 22-tET and 31-tET for 7-
or 11-limit JI . . . Also, don't forget there's a "middle path"
between ETs and JI: linear temperaments, planar temperaments, etc.

Jacky!

{you wrote...}
>I've just uploaded to our files section, a little Peace Offering for my >dear Sisters and Brothers here, called "Peace Gongs".

It's the usual: beautiful stuff. Spoil us this way anytime...

>Instruments used: 2 TX81Zs, TX802, Akai S3000xl.

Ah, you make me crazy! This means that I should keep both Z's that I have, and work more with the 802, if you can get textures out of them like this.

Big Question: is the Akai a sampler? See my next post to the list, then.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., jacky_ligon@y... wrote:

>
> Ratios Cents Consecutive
> 29/28 60.751 60.751
> 29/27 123.712 62.961
> 29/26 189.050 65.337
> 29/25 256.950 67.900
> 29/24 327.622 70.672
> 29/23 401.303 73.681
> 29/22 478.259 76.956
> 29/21 558.796 80.537
> 29/20 643.263 84.467
> 29/19 732.064 88.801
> 29/18 825.667 93.603
> 29/17 924.622 98.955
> 29/16 1029.577 104.955
> 29/15 1141.308 111.731

This is a Utonal or subharmonic series, and the 29 is irrelevant --
you would get exactly the same intervals if you substituted your
phone number for 29.

> Notice in the consecutive intervals column how the interval sizes
> begin as small, then get larger at the bottom. The inverse is true
if
> you invert this series to make it sub-harmonic,

That is, to make it harmonic.
>
> This graduated increase in the size of the intervals is a powerful
> *melodic attribute* of Prime Limits

Of subharmonic or harmonic series, yes, as well as countless types of
non-JI scales. A prime limit, on the other hand, can support any
imaginable pattern of melodic intervals. However, enforcing an _odd_
limit on all the intervals within a scale _does_ lead in most cases
to a subharmonic or harmonic result. The exceptions are known as
ASSes: see http://www.cix.co.uk/~gbreed/ass.htm . . . they are
usually inversionally symmetrical structures.

Sorry, Jon . . . but I thought Jacky would be interested. Please post
follow-ups to the main tuning list.

> This is very difficult to do with an ET

True -- simple ETs, of course, tend to equalize the step sizes.

> (BTW - Which ET
> approximates the 29 limit Paul?)

The first ET consistent through the 29-odd-limit is 282-tET. The true
jewel of ETs for high-limit approximation is 311-tET, consistent all
the way through the 41-odd-limit. But ETs with this many notes are
unlikely to ever be practical.

> A simple LS for number four is as follows:
>
> 1 2 3 4
> 2 4 1 3
> 3 1 4 2
> 4 3 2 1

The point being that each number appears once in each row and once in
each column -- right?

> One further interesting thing is that it is impossible to create a
LS
> like the symmetrical one above with the number 14. Until I found
out
> that Euler couldn't do it, I thought I was mentally deficient,
> because I'd tried on and off for a long time to crack the code.

Fascinating!

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., jacky_ligon@y... wrote:

> I don't think we should have to tippy toe about this being off
topic
> really, since the issue emanates from musical endeavor.

Hmm . . . 99% of what I post on this tuning list emanates from
musical endevor . . . that doesn't make it all suitable for this list
(Jon?)
>
> I guess my main simple question is what defines the above - or any -

> such series as harmonic or subharmonic? Help me out here. I thought
> it was the opposite of what you have revealed.

Jacky, it's quite simple, really. The harmonic series is
1/d
2/d
3/d
4/d
5/d
6/d
7/d
8/d
9/d
etc.

where d is your grandmother's birthday. The subharmonic series is
.
.
.
d/9
d/8
d/7
d/6
d/5
d/4
d/3
d/2
d/1

I do a 3:5:13 thing, and alot of duo-meter stuff on the traps. I don't look
at it as "independance", but rather I hear them as melodys. Dependance. It's
rather easy actually.

Thanks!
GZ

jacky_ligon@... wrote:

> This is great George! Doesn't surprise me that you have already been
> there.
>
> But - can you do it on the trap set? He he! Get that hi-hat goin in
> 7, and the kick in 11 and the snare in 13 - and I'll be over to your
> house in a little while with micreetones in hand.
>
> Good luck with the premiere!
>
> Best,
>
> Jacky
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:
> > > May I inquire if you have ever explored polymetrical structures in
> > > your compositions?
> > >
> >
> > Yes, alot. In Tiers of Yearning, at the end of the 3rd mvmt. there
> is a 5/8
> > ostinato on the viola and a 7/8 ostinato in the percussion
> (aluminum tubes).
> >
> > I just finished a four-handed piano w/ alto flute piece which uses
> an
> > asymetric canon in 6/4, 13/8, and 7/4 time. This piece will
> premiere in New
> > York on Oct. 30th at the Cutting Room.
> >
> > Polymetric is some serious fun. Like listening to the Mayan
> calendar rounds.
> > I actually composed a piece a zillion years ago with the three
> major Mayan
> > calendars. A thousand years in 260 bars at 200 bpm. Whew.
> >
> > Polyanna,
> > GZ
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

G,

{you wrote...}
>I do a 3:5:13 thing, and alot of duo-meter stuff on the traps. I don't look
>at it as "independance", but rather I hear them as melodys. Dependance. It's
>rather easy actually.

I know many people who can do 2, and only 2, meters simultaneously. Does this make them co-dependent?

Jon (who has spent a mind-numbing day of Tchaikovsky behind the timpani...)

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:
These would be pentagonal numbers, a type of figurate number--here's
the deal:

overtone = n(3n-1)/2

undertone = n(3n+1)/2

So for the 29 ratios in the example you gave, the undertone series
would let n=14.5, and the non-octave ET would be 322.625-tet!

Hi Dan

Could you connect a few more dots here for me. I would like to hear
the scale you are proposing but am not clear how you go about using
the n=14.5 to construct a scale.

And thank you for the kind words of Bardo _Prayer.

Peace,
Mary

---
Thanks Dan very much. Interestingly enough when you first published
your tooth fairy algorithm I actually printed it out and saved it. I
don't do that with very many posts - but I have some sort of
intuition that your "fortuitous" discovery has some interesting
healing properties.
Just an intuition, but I really trust my "intuitions", even when I
don't understand them :-)

Peace,
Mary