20-tone guitar

Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just uploaded
two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar as a
favor for someone who had said they messed around with the tuning and
found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.

http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/

20-tone guitar example_1
20-tone guitar example_2

Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props!

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
<daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
>
> Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just uploaded
> two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar as a
> favor for someone who had said they messed around with the tuning
and
> found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
>
> http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
>
> 20-tone guitar example_1
> 20-tone guitar example_2

Thanks for the listen.Just a couple of two second throw-offs,but I
wanted to be sure to show the sweetness of 20-edo , so there's a sort
of southseas-americana vibe I guess.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
<igliashon@s...> wrote:
>
> Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props!
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just
uploaded
> > two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar as
a
> > favor for someone who had said they messed around with the tuning
> and
> > found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
> >
> > http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> >
> > 20-tone guitar example_1
> > 20-tone guitar example_2

On Wednesday 15 December 2004 11:22 am, daniel_anthony_stearns wrote:
> Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just uploaded
> two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar as a
> favor for someone who had said they messed around with the tuning and
> found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
>
> http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
>
> 20-tone guitar example_1
> 20-tone guitar example_2

Daniel,

Loved it! I could listen to that for hours. In fact 'minimalism' (for lack of
a better term--maybe 'hypnotic finger-pick style' is better, but not as
pithy) is well suited to the inherent activity of the beating in 20-tet. Very
suited to the timbre of the guitar, and very sweet, as you suggested. I would
love to hear some metal percussion tuned up to 20, which we know works with
5-tet, and probably any multiple of 5-tet

BTW, have people started saying 20-edo. What's the reasoning not to say 'tet'
again?

Best,
--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

So...when can we expect more? Honestly, I'm hooked. In fact just
these two little samples has really shaken my prejudice against
tunings with "non" fifths. Please, if you write more, post
IMMEDIATELY!

-Igs

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
<daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the listen.Just a couple of two second throw-offs,but I
> wanted to be sure to show the sweetness of 20-edo , so there's a
sort
> of southseas-americana vibe I guess.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
> <igliashon@s...> wrote:
> >
> > Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props!
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> > <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just
> uploaded
> > > two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar
as
> a
> > > favor for someone who had said they messed around with the
tuning
> > and
> > > found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
> > >
> > > http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> > >
> > > 20-tone guitar example_1
> > > 20-tone guitar example_2

Composer/mathematician David Feldman and I have just started a blog, "Renewable Music". We want especially to address the issues around music that is there for the long haul, i.e. not for immediate consumption and disposal. Tuning will defintely be a topic. There's not yet much there to read, and we don't yet have our full complement of authors, but here's the address:

http://renewablemusic.blogspot.com/

Daniel Wolf

on 17/12/04 09:51, Daniel Wolf at djwolf1@... wrote:

>
> Composer/mathematician David Feldman and I have just started a blog,
> "Renewable Music". We want especially to address the issues around music
> that is there for the long haul, i.e. not for immediate consumption and
> disposal. Tuning will defintely be a topic. There's not yet much there
> to read, and we don't yet have our full complement of authors, but
> here's the address:
>
> http://renewablemusic.blogspot.com/
>
> Daniel Wolf
>

I'm intrigued - how do you know what's in for the long haul and what's for
immediate consumption and disposal? I don't know of many artists who preface
their work with a statement to this effect.

Sincerely

mopani

mopani@... wrote:

>
>
> I'm intrigued - how do you know what's in for the long haul and what's for
> immediate consumption and disposal? I don't know of many artists who > preface
> their work with a statement to this effect.
>
> Sincerely
>
> mopani
>

We don't know what will endure or not and exploring that is the point of the blog. And, although we are both composers, we're not necessarily prefacing our own work with the statement, although I certain would like some of my work to endure and to be heard in ways other than casual entertainment.

This grew out of a discussion between David Feldman and I about how to characterize the music that we value. Terms like "serious" or "art music" or "classical" are restrictive. Defining the music by negations, like "non-something" or "post-something" don't work either. But the quality that we agreed upon had to do with a certain depth (which is not the same as complexity) that invites , if not demands, that one return to the work in question, that, in effect, engagement with the work grows over time.

I think that we're both very catholic about this. For example, my first posting was about the music of a young composer with Asperger's syndrome (a fact that I omitted from my posting), and identified qualities in his music that I find attractive.

The name "renewable music", by the way, was simply the first name that I could find for the blog that wasn't already taken. But it's growing on me; I like the environmentally responsible undertone.

Daniel Wolf

>> Composer/mathematician David Feldman and I have just started a blog,
>> "Renewable Music". We want especially to address the issues around music
>> that is there for the long haul, i.e. not for immediate consumption and
>> disposal. Tuning will defintely be a topic. There's not yet much there
>> to read, and we don't yet have our full complement of authors, but
>> here's the address:
>>
>> http://renewablemusic.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Daniel Wolf
>>
>
>I'm intrigued - how do you know what's in for the long haul and what's
>for immediate consumption and disposal? I don't know of many artists
>who preface their work with a statement to this effect.
>
>Sincerely
>
>mopani

Dragnabbit, mopani, your system clock's still off. Stuck in 1970.
It wrecks havoc on your e-mails.

-Carl

Well, thanks guys! Yes Aaron, I think you're right that the clean
electric guitar played in this fashion does a good job of weeding out
the bulk of dissagreeables while still allowing the alien aspects of
these types of tunings to shine. But I've been playing and saying for
years that these tunings--ones that poorly approximate 3 and 5 limit
sonorities--are quite useful even for "pretty" music if one ignores
the numbers and takes them to real instruments and real music.
No,they'll never be utilitarian in the sense that 12-tone equal
temperament is, but they're not it's polar opposite either IMO.

By the way, EDO was an acronym I coined 4 or 5 years ago because I
felt equal tunings like 11 and 13 were not so much temperaments as
autonomous entities of a certain type. So Equidistant Divisions of
the Octave was just a little protest on my part in that direction...
much to my surprise it kind of developed a little usage here and
there in the tuning community, but I'd imagine that's largely due to
Joe Monzo adopting it and the influence of his web page.

Anyway,thanks again.

Dan Stearns
http://kronoson.station185.com/kronosonic/contrib/dan.htm
http://zebox.com/avantgarde_jazzguitar/
http://www.zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
<igliashon@s...> wrote:
>
> So...when can we expect more? Honestly, I'm hooked. In fact just
> these two little samples has really shaken my prejudice against
> tunings with "non" fifths. Please, if you write more, post
> IMMEDIATELY!
>
> -Igs
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the listen.Just a couple of two second throw-offs,but
I
> > wanted to be sure to show the sweetness of 20-edo , so there's a
> sort
> > of southseas-americana vibe I guess.
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
> > <igliashon@s...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props!
> > >
> > > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> > > <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just
> > uploaded
> > > > two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar
> as
> > a
> > > > favor for someone who had said they messed around with the
> tuning
> > > and
> > > > found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
> > > >
> > > > http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> > > >
> > > > 20-tone guitar example_1
> > > > 20-tone guitar example_2

20 Edo Comes out quite close to the second diagonal off of mt meru. In normal english this means 11 steps of 20 will generate differance tones close to tones already in the scale. It becomes a nice self contained unit. The recurrent sequence has been also called the tribonnacci series. A+C=D.

daniel_anthony_stearns wrote:

>Thanks for the listen.Just a couple of two second throw-offs,but I >wanted to be sure to show the sweetness of 20-edo , so there's a sort >of southseas-americana vibe I guess.
>
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep" ><igliashon@s...> wrote:
> >
>>Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props! >>
>>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns" >><daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
>> >>
>>>Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just >>> >>>
>uploaded > >
>>>two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar as >>> >>>
>a > >
>>>favor for someone who had said they messed around with the tuning >>> >>>
>>and >> >>
>>>found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
>>>
>>>http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
>>>
>>>20-tone guitar example_1
>>>20-tone guitar example_2
>>> >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Put up another short 20-tone equal temperament excerpt for anybody
who might be interested

http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
outside soloing excerpt_1

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
<igliashon@s...> wrote:
>
> So...when can we expect more? Honestly, I'm hooked. In fact just
> these two little samples has really shaken my prejudice against
> tunings with "non" fifths. Please, if you write more, post
> IMMEDIATELY!
>
> -Igs
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the listen.Just a couple of two second throw-offs,but
I
> > wanted to be sure to show the sweetness of 20-edo , so there's a
> sort
> > of southseas-americana vibe I guess.
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
> > <igliashon@s...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props!
> > >
> > > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> > > <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just
> > uploaded
> > > > two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament guitar
> as
> > a
> > > > favor for someone who had said they messed around with the
> tuning
> > > and
> > > > found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
> > > >
> > > > http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> > > >
> > > > 20-tone guitar example_1
> > > > 20-tone guitar example_2

Dan, these are even better! I love the rhythmic displacements in the
first one (reminds me a little of a breakdown from the Dillinger
Escape Plan), and the second one is way sweet...you've got some
craaazy chops, man! Quit teasing me with these "excerpts"!
How 'bout a full-length piece?

-igs

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
<daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
>
> Put up another short 20-tone equal temperament excerpt for anybody
> who might be interested
>
> http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> outside soloing excerpt_1
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
> <igliashon@s...> wrote:
> >
> > So...when can we expect more? Honestly, I'm hooked. In fact
just
> > these two little samples has really shaken my prejudice against
> > tunings with "non" fifths. Please, if you write more, post
> > IMMEDIATELY!
> >
> > -Igs
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> > <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the listen.Just a couple of two second throw-
offs,but
> I
> > > wanted to be sure to show the sweetness of 20-edo , so there's
a
> > sort
> > > of southseas-americana vibe I guess.
> > >
> > > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
> > > <igliashon@s...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props!
> > > >
> > > > --- In
MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> > > > <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just
> > > uploaded
> > > > > two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament
guitar
> > as
> > > a
> > > > > favor for someone who had said they messed around with the
> > tuning
> > > > and
> > > > > found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> > > > >
> > > > > 20-tone guitar example_1
> > > > > 20-tone guitar example_2

Well thank you! Try here:

http://kronoson.station185.com/kronosonic/contrib/dan.htm
Head of Flame

BTW, I dig the DEP too.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Igliashon Jones"
<igliashon@s...> wrote:
>
> Dan, these are even better! I love the rhythmic displacements in
the
> first one (reminds me a little of a breakdown from the Dillinger
> Escape Plan), and the second one is way sweet...you've got some
> craaazy chops, man! Quit teasing me with these "excerpts"!
> How 'bout a full-length piece?
>
> -igs
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Put up another short 20-tone equal temperament excerpt for
anybody
> > who might be interested
> >
> > http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> > outside soloing excerpt_1
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
> > <igliashon@s...> wrote:
> > >
> > > So...when can we expect more? Honestly, I'm hooked. In fact
> just
> > > these two little samples has really shaken my prejudice against
> > > tunings with "non" fifths. Please, if you write more, post
> > > IMMEDIATELY!
> > >
> > > -Igs
> > >
> > > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> > > <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the listen.Just a couple of two second throw-
> offs,but
> > I
> > > > wanted to be sure to show the sweetness of 20-edo , so
there's
> a
> > > sort
> > > > of southseas-americana vibe I guess.
> > > >
> > > > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep"
> > > > <igliashon@s...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Holy crap! I have never heard 20 sound so good. Props!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
> MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> > > > > <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Though I usually don't like excerpts and examples, I just
> > > > uploaded
> > > > > > two very short ones with the 20-tone equal temperament
> guitar
> > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > > favor for someone who had said they messed around with
the
> > > tuning
> > > > > and
> > > > > > found it very sour. These are sweet... short and sweet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://zebox.com/daniel_anthony_stearns/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 20-tone guitar example_1
> > > > > > 20-tone guitar example_2

Elsie Hamilton lives!

I got a little prodding to make this thing happen, so here's the initial workup (?) of a little piece by EH, the composer mentioned in Kathleen Schlesinger's book, _The Greek Aulos_:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/petemcraymusic.htm

===> Hymn to Ra

I'm having such a hoot with this tuning, I may have to get a guitar refretted for my reggae tribute to Elsie... :-). I have some ideas to spice it up a bit, but I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions from the group. I'm just too lazy to sing it, right now...soon I hope. Please bear in mind that I just read it off the stark page, so it really is 'preliminary', in that sense.

I hope someone finds it interesting. Cheers,

Pete

PS I can't seem to get [set map_freq] and [set middle] to do what I want [post-] Scala, any handholders out there?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is pretty amazing, the future of pop music

Pete McRae wrote:

>Elsie Hamilton lives! > >I got a little prodding to make this thing happen, so here's the initial workup (?) of a little piece by EH, the composer mentioned in Kathleen Schlesinger's book, _The Greek Aulos_:
> >http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/petemcraymusic.htm > >===> Hymn to Ra
> >I'm having such a hoot with this tuning, I may have to get a guitar refretted for my reggae tribute to Elsie... :-). I have some ideas to spice it up a bit, but I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions from the group. I'm just too lazy to sing it, right now...soon I hope. Please bear in mind that I just read it off the stark page, so it really is 'preliminary', in that sense.
> >I hope someone finds it interesting. Cheers,
> >Pete
> >PS I can't seem to get [set map_freq] and [set middle] to do what I want [post-] Scala, any handholders out there?
> > > >
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

> initial workup (?) of a little piece by EH, the composer
> mentioned in Kathleen Schlesinger's book, _The Greek Aulos_:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/petemcraymusic.htm

Hmm... Interesting tuning... But I must have missed the description of the
tuning itself. Was it posted to the list?

Thanks,
Rick

Elsie Hamilton's gamut, from article The Modes of Ancient Greek Music (1953)
0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect prime
1: 22/21 80.537 undecimal minor semitone
2: 11/10 165.004 4/5-tone, Ptolemy's second
3: 22/19 253.805
4: 11/9 347.408 undecimal neutral third
5: 22/17 446.363
6: 11/8 551.318 undecimal semi-augmented fourth
7: 22/15 663.049 undecimal diminished fifth
8: 11/7 782.492 undecimal augmented fifth
9: 44/27 845.453 neutral sixth
10: 22/13 910.790 tridecimal major sixth
11: 11/6 1049.363 21/4-tone, undecimal neutral seventh
12: 2/1 1200.000 octave
|

Rick McGowan <rick@...> wrote:
> initial workup (?) of a little piece by EH, the composer
> mentioned in Kathleen Schlesinger's book, _The Greek Aulos_:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/petemcraymusic.htm

Hmm... Interesting tuning... But I must have missed the description of the
tuning itself. Was it posted to the list?

Thanks,
Rick

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pete, thanks for posting the tuning.

> Elsie Hamilton's gamut, from article The Modes of Ancient
> Greek Music (1953)

Article probably impossible to find, I expect. ;-)

Is there any particular justification or ancient Greek source for this
choice of intervals? It somehow doesn't seem very Greek-ish, with all of
those large numbers, 22 and 11 and the larger primes...)

Thanks,
Rick

Pete-

I've been inspired by your pieces in this scale--keep it up.

In fact, Margo Schulter and I have been discussing this scale and it's
potentials on the phone.

Cheers,
Aaron.

On Wednesday 26 January 2005 10:22 am, Kraig Grady wrote:
> That is pretty amazing, the future of pop music
>
> Pete McRae wrote:
> >Elsie Hamilton lives!
> >
> >I got a little prodding to make this thing happen, so here's the initial
> > workup (?) of a little piece by EH, the composer mentioned in Kathleen
> > Schlesinger's book, _The Greek Aulos_:
> >
> >http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/petemcraymusic.htm
> >
> >===> Hymn to Ra
> >
> >I'm having such a hoot with this tuning, I may have to get a guitar
> > refretted for my reggae tribute to Elsie... :-). I have some ideas to
> > spice it up a bit, but I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions from
> > the group. I'm just too lazy to sing it, right now...soon I hope.
> > Please bear in mind that I just read it off the stark page, so it really
> > is 'preliminary', in that sense.
> >
> >I hope someone finds it interesting. Cheers,
> >
> >Pete
> >
> >PS I can't seem to get [set map_freq] and [set middle] to do what I want
> > [post-] Scala, any handholders out there?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

>Is there any particular justification or ancient Greek source for this
>choice of intervals? It somehow doesn't seem very Greek-ish, with all of
>those large numbers, 22 and 11 and the larger primes...)

I'm just scratching into it, now. Partch has practically a whole chapter on Schlesinger, and that got me onto it. Schlesinger's book is, I think, a monumental achievement, however controversial it may once have been. AFAIK it's considered debunked as Ancient Greek music, which I don't think I have a problem about. She should still be in print, though, IMHO... :-)

And for the rest of my 2 nickels, if you've ever played a flute with equal-sized, equally spaced holes and thought it was pretty cool, she's definitely worth a spin around the dance floor!

I'm gonna check it out some more, but now I'm wondering how this shook out in the tuning list [archive]?

Rick McGowan <rick@...> wrote:

Pete, thanks for posting the tuning.

> Elsie Hamilton's gamut, from article The Modes of Ancient
> Greek Music (1953)

Article probably impossible to find, I expect. ;-)

Is there any particular justification or ancient Greek source for this
choice of intervals? It somehow doesn't seem very Greek-ish, with all of
those large numbers, 22 and 11 and the larger primes...)

Thanks,
Rick

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]