Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Re: [MMM] the challenge of (MIDI) timbre

Hi Jon,

Perhaps I can answer this since I've looked into ways
of playing Quicktiem on the p.c. for FTS, and can present
my findings.

Quicktime uses the same sounds as the Roland
Sound Canvas, so the best way to do it on a p.c. is to get
the Roland Sound Canvas and use it instead of Quicktime - it is better
than quicktime for midi work on a p.c. It even has
an option to realise a midi sound directly to waveform
audio.

Here is a page about quicktime using the Roland Sound Canvas

http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/1997/Roland-QuickTime.html

Here is where you can download it:
http://www.edirol.it/europe/downloads.asp?id=12&la=UK&gid=3

Go to Demo then right to the bottom of the page.

The Roland Sound Canvas is commercial software
so you pay for it but the cost isn't high
and you can get a download trial first.
So you can do work during the 30 day trial period
and find out what one thinks of it and if it is
suitable for ones needs.

If one wants to use Quicktime rather than the Roland
then you can save the piece to a midi file and then play the midi
file in a web page using the quicktime plug in.
That works well. Though the quicktime plug in is
also rather eccentric in its treatment of pitch bends
- whatever pitch bend range you actually specify in
the midi file, it will transform them all into its
"fractional semitones" pitch bends before
it plays them, which have a much wider range
- can't remember the details now, a few octaves,
so you will also lose just a bit of pitch bend resolution.

I also know of a way to play directly through quicktime
and FTS supports that - but I can't get it to work
very well in real time on the p.c, and don't happen to
know of any other P.c. program you can get that
lets you play directly in Quicktime in real time
apart from FTS.

Even the demo code that I got from Quicktime
to show how to program it to play in real time
had the same problem. The timing of the notes is
quite irregular when played in real time over the
quicktime synth. It's like latency but the latency
is irregular rather than constant, which makes
fast passages and crisp chords impossible.

It's quite probable that there is some techy detail
I'm missing in their code, and that there is a
way to get it to work. But anyway I don't know
of any other program you can use to do it either
and Quicktime itself doesn't have an option to play
it in real time on a P.c.

When the midi file gets played in quicktime in a
web page it can schedule the notes slightly
in advance so that will avoid that issue.

The roland soft synth has no such problems of irregular
timings - it has slight latency, but it is constant
rather than irregular, as normal for a soft synth
so everything is nicely in time and chords are crisp
- like playing a church organ.

On a very fast machine you probably won't even notice
it unless able to feel millisecond type
latency, in which case one might notice it.

As it is a GS sound set you get many
extra instruments and sound
sets when you vary the bank number.

Robert

----- Original Message -----
From: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:54 PM
Subject: [MMM] Digest Number 993

>
> There are 17 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> 2. Re: sysex
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> 3. Re: Sharing Music and Other Real Listening Problems
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> 4. Re: Sharing Music and Other Real Listening Problems
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> 5. Re: latency / transmission in FTS and SCALA.
> From: "Robert Walker" <robertwalker@...>
> 6. Re: Essential Reality P5 glove
> From: "Robert Walker" <robertwalker@...>
> 7. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> 8. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> 9. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> 10. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> 11. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> 12. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> 13. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> 14. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: Daniel Wolf <djwolf1@...>
> 15. Re: Above and beyond with DJ Wolf
> From: Daniel Wolf <djwolf1@...>
> 16. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> 17. Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:40:24 -0000
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> Subject: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> I've experimented with this on my new Haydn page:
>
> http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/haydn.htm
>
> I'd appreciate hearing feedback.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:10:50 -0000
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> Subject: Re: sysex
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Walker"
> <robertwalker@n...> wrote:
>
> > So a midi file that lets you retune one synth won't work with
> > others. A program that lets you retune via midi has
> > to include a long list of supported synths and the user then selects
> > from the list in order to retune - as SCALA does.
>
> Pitch bending is entirely standard, and the MTS tuning dump, though
> coming as a SysEx message, is also standardized in the definition of
> the MTS standard. The problem is that this official standard MTS
> tuning dump message is not often implemented.
>
> > Also as manufacturers make up their own
> > sysex formats for retuning, you can't just look up and see how
> > it works in the midi standard because how it works is
> > up to the manufacturer and they can do it any way
> > they please since they are using non standard custom
> > defined sysexes anyway (which of course is also
> > permitted in the standard).
>
> So they can, but it is also possible for them to simply use the
> standard MTS tuning message, as Timidity for instance does. This is
> what Scala will put in your midi file if you ask it to.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:24:26 -0000
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> Subject: Re: Sharing Music and Other Real Listening Problems
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> I am still convinced that mp3, as a format, is still going to
> > dominate for a few years. Maybe it will go out when the CD dies as a
> format.
>
> Increasing bandwidth and storage capacity work against any lossy
> format, which may mean any lossy compression scheme will eventually
> become obsolsecent.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:38:47 -0700
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> Subject: Re: Sharing Music and Other Real Listening Problems
>
> {you wrote...}
> >... which may mean any lossy compression scheme will eventually become
> >obsolsecent.
>
> I look forward to that.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:36:21 +0100
> From: "Robert Walker" <robertwalker@...>
> Subject: Re: latency / transmission in FTS and SCALA.
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I'm not sure that you will see an improvement particularly
> over SCALA. Our programs are roughly similar in transmissino
> rates.
>
> It's probably going to be less than the maximum transmission
> rate to send a note on along the midi cable (one note
> per millisecond) - unless you have very fast usb midi or a
> very slow computer.
>
> But that's not so bad - after all 1ms is a thousandth
> of a second which is pretty small - if you play two notes on a piano
> a meter apart then if they are in sync for a listener
> to one side then they will be out of sync for a
> listener in front of the keyboard by 3 ms, or vice
> versa. Though I know that if you mix the notes over
> headphones or can position the microphone precisely
> to within inches and get the performer to perform
> for a listener at that exact location in space then
> you could get a better synchronisation than
> this.
>
> It is possible to do better though. I did a
> program that was very bare bones retuning app
> which had better transmission rates. If you
> notice anything more than a ms or so per note
> then it would be a bug of some type and
> I'd want to know about it and fix it.
> You can get FTS to check the latency
> of other programs or indeed itself to
> find out where the delay is happening
> - by relaying the notes via Midi Relay
> which has a fast transmission rate of
> 0.15 ms per note on here - that would
> vary on your computer speed - for
> each midi relay in the chain. So by
> subtracting that known amount and doing
> it for a bunch of e.g. 10 notes you can
> find out how much latency is due to
> FTS or Scala, like this:
>
> FTS Synchronisation tester -> Midi Relay
> -> Program to test -> Midi Relay -> FTS
>
> - two uses of midi relay adding up to
> 0.3 ms - then the relay through the
> program to test so subtract 0.3 ms from
> the result and you find out how much it is.
>
> Anyway I'll be interested to know what you
> reckon actually trying out FTS - maybe I've
> improved the latency a bit from before.
> I've done work on it certainly.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:21:52 +0100
> From: "Robert Walker" <robertwalker@...>
> Subject: Re: Essential Reality P5 glove
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> > That might work. Check out "absolute mode" on the P5 group. That's
> > what will need to be used. Don't use the Essential Reality SDK for
> > absolute mode, though. It says it works in the SDK docs but it
> > really doesn't. Only relative mode works (similar to mouse input).
>
> Rightio, thanks. Though I'm not sure I understand the distinction between
> relative and absolute mode here yet. With the mouse, you can lift the mouse
> off the pad and place it back again somewhere else, so you lose
> the record of where it was before, so it has to be relative.
>
> But I don't yet understand how you can you lose the absolute position of
> the glove as it seems there is nowhere else to move it to. Must be
> missing something there.
>
> > As I'm thinking more on this, you probably wouldn't want to limit it
> > to just a single flat surface. You could stack virtual surfaces and
> > just play in the air since it's all on screen. That would be cool!
>
> Yes, it would be great! I can think of many possibilities here
> such as lattices, 3D theremin, split keys etc.
>
> > As far as languages go, I use C++ due to it's massive use in the SDKs
> > I'm linked to. I like the purity of C but love the reusability /
> > encapsulation of C++! It fits my programming style really well, too,
> > but that might be because it's what I've groaned used to.
>
> Yes, I can understand that.
>
> Yes, you can do most of the basic SDK stuff using C only,
> but one or two things require C++ - the main thing I use
> it for is making desktop shortcuts, for some reason not
> supported in pure C in the SDK. Some other things can
> be done in C but are far more complex, e.g. tool tips.
> I do those in pure C but that part of my programs
> took me a fair number of weeks to write and debug
> before I had it all figured out!
>
> Who knows, maybe if tings had gone differently at some poitn in the past
> I too might have got used to C++ and come to prefer
> coding in it too.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:06:25 -0700
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> Gene,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >I've experimented with this on my new Haydn page:
> >
> >http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/haydn.htm
> >
> >I'd appreciate hearing feedback.
>
> Good experiment. You certainly took a different angle than I thought of:
> instead of files with (roughly) equivalent fidelity but differing lengths,
> you offer complete movements (pieces) by utilizing differing factors of
> compression, as you so aptly put "lo-fi" and "hi-fi". Not a comparison of
> the codecs, but that isn't what you intended anyhow.
>
> I listened to the 3rd movement of the Haydn and - no surprise - the ogg
> (hi-fi) version sounds much better, having better frequency range.
>
> I *would* suggest that you lay it out a little more tabular, as the
> lo/hi-fi selections bump right up against one another, and may not be
> totally intuitive. If nothing else, put some space in there (even a
> blank.gif with a width of something uniform).
>
> And then there is the "I suggest just listening to the music without
> fussing about "correct" soundfonts"... This suggests that music is nothing
> more than pitches and notes of varying lengths and volumes, as if composers
> never really cared about what timbral resource might be utilized. I
> understand your point, and we have never seen eye-to-eye (or
> eye-to-anything, for that matter :).
>
> But since some recent discussions around here have toyed with the
> philosophy that the rendered/recorded sounds utilized in a lot of our
> electronic microtonal stuff has a lot to do with it's semi-lameness, I can
> only offer this: one of the things that good composers things about is
> *everything*. I realize that there are areas of music where performance can
> vary a lot in terms of instrumental/vocal resources (and I'm *specifically*
> not referring to _transcriptions_), but a composition is the sum of its
> parts, and the scoring of the piece - the way that it becomes sound from
> dots on a page, etc - can be just as important as the rhythms and pitches.
>
> I can only speak for myself: I experience music holistically. I listen as
> much to the phrasing, to the 'orchestration' (if you will), to the mix (in
> recorded situations), as much as I do to melody, harmony, and rhythm. How
> could one not? (strictly rhetorical)
>
> All of that _said_, I didn't find the soundfont objectionable, and it was
> at least as good as most 'arco' string sounds that you find on good synths
> or samplers. However, even if one leaves out real string playing, there is
> a huge world of music that can be made with string sample libraries, but it
> requires one to use many kinds of samples and to really understand the
> phrasing of a string player as exhibited in the writing of the piece. I've
> heard very, very effective mock-ups of works using samplers, but it
> requires a lot of work to get the sound right.
>
> Going back, you might look at the html layout of a couple of the music
> sites (like zebox, soundclick, etc) for how they spreadout the various
> sound file formats for downloading/streaming, to make your page more clear...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:05:11 -0000
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> > And then there is the "I suggest just listening to the music without
> > fussing about "correct" soundfonts"... This suggests that music is
> nothing
> > more than pitches and notes of varying lengths and volumes, as if
> composers
> > never really cared about what timbral resource might be utilized.
>
> This suggests Haydn used sounfonts. He didn't. In any case, if you
> want to complain about a lack of authenticity, it seems to be
> considered acceptable to butcher the tuning, even when an orchestra as
> excellent as the BPO is playing. Why is the BPO playing in 12 equal
> with A set high and with inflated resources acceptable, but using the
> "wrong" soundfont isn't? This suggests music has nothing much to do
> with pitches, and that heavy-handed big band sounds are just peachy
> for this kind of music. Why is that better than using arco strings?
>
> I
> > understand your point, and we have never seen eye-to-eye (or
> > eye-to-anything, for that matter :).
>
> But I've never really understood yours. You seem to think the arco
> strings work for this piece, but are suggesting they shouldn't be used
> anyway--or something. I don't really know what your point is, about
> this or the oboe question either one.
>
> > I can only speak for myself: I experience music holistically. I
> listen as
> > much to the phrasing, to the 'orchestration' (if you will), to the
> mix (in
> > recorded situations), as much as I do to melody, harmony, and
> rhythm. How
> > could one not? (strictly rhetorical)
>
> How much does tuning matter, in this view? How significant is the idea
> content of the music? Obviously listening to Beethoven's late quartets
> and playing attention only to how good the string playing is misses
> most of the point. Schnabel was not a technically brilliant pianist,
> but people still listen and learn from his pioneering recordings,
> because so much of Beethoven is about *ideas*. Where do ideas fit in?
>
> However, even if one leaves out real string playing, there is
> > a huge world of music that can be made with string sample libraries,
> but it
> > requires one to use many kinds of samples and to really understand the
> > phrasing of a string player as exhibited in the writing of the
> piece. I've
> > heard very, very effective mock-ups of works using samplers, but it
> > requires a lot of work to get the sound right.
>
> It sounds like something which would make a great course--how to
> produce a Hollywood mock-up.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:21:29 -0700
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> Gene,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >But I've never really understood yours. You seem to think the arco strings
> >work for this piece, but are suggesting they shouldn't be used anyway--or
> >something.
>
> No, that isn't correct at all. I said that the soundfont didn't bother me
> too much, and that is because it is a decent emulation of an arco string
> note, with a fair amount of bow attack. I didn't say anything about *not*
> using them - if you read carefully, you'll note that I mention that
> successful use of samples in emulating an complex instrument (in this case,
> and most notably, string articulations) requires not one kind of sample but
> many. The variety of attack envelopes and nuances in the phrasing of a bow
> are numerous and have a great degree of impact on how that phrasing creates
> a musical line. All one need do is take a look at the score, or even
> better, study a string player performing such a part, to see that one kind
> of sample will not give an effective rendition of a well composed line.
>
> >Where do ideas fit in?
>
> Obviously, they are also part of the whole.
>
> >It sounds like something which would make a great course--how to produce a
> >Hollywood mock-up.
>
> There have only been two string quartets that went by the name of the
> Hollywood String Quartet. The first was actually of such prodigious talent,
> being made up of some European ex-patriots during WWII, that their few
> recordings have been reissued. But if you were simply being a jerk when all
> I was trying to do was give some feedback on your experiment, then I've
> duly noted that as well.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:33:03 -0000
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> > >Where do ideas fit in?
> >
> > Obviously, they are also part of the whole.
>
> For some kinds of music--high on abstractness, low on
> corporeality--it's the ver essence. Bach's Art of the Fugue was not
> written with a specific ensemble in mind, which shows your claim that
> composers always do this to be false. It is abstract. It is all about
> the notes. It is also, IMHO, great music.
>
> > >It sounds like something which would make a great course--how to
> produce a
> > >Hollywood mock-up.
> >
> > There have only been two string quartets that went by the name of the
> > Hollywood String Quartet. The first was actually of such prodigious
> talent,
> > being made up of some European ex-patriots during WWII, that their few
> > recordings have been reissued. But if you were simply being a jerk
> when all
> > I was trying to do was give some feedback on your experiment, then I've
> > duly noted that as well.
>
> Why do you always leap to any conclusion which allows you to conclude
> I am a jerk? I wasn't talking about the Hollywood String Quartet at
> all--obviously not, if you will read what I wrote, which was about
> mock-ups, a subject you brought up yourself and which I merely
> responded to in a friendly manner. I don't know what your problem is,
> but you really need to get over it. Please!
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:54:13 -0700
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> Gene,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >For some kinds of music--high on abstractness, low on corporeality--it's
> >the ver essence. Bach's Art of the Fugue was not written with a specific
> >ensemble in mind, which shows your claim that composers always do this to
> >be false.
>
> I wrote: "I realize that there are areas of music where performance can
> vary a lot in terms of instrumental/vocal resources". And I meant that, yes
> indeed, there is music of a very abstract nature, both older music (and
> lots and lots of it a lot older than Bach fugues) as well as abstract newer
> music. I never said composers *always* do this.
>
> >It is also, IMHO, great music.
>
> Agreed.
>
> >Why do you always leap to any conclusion which allows you to conclude I am
> >a jerk?
>
> Sorry. (read on)
>
> >I wasn't talking about the Hollywood String Quartet at all--obviously not,
> >if you will read what I wrote, which was about mock-ups, a subject you
> >brought up yourself and which I merely responded to in a friendly manner.
>
> Again, sorry. Many, many classical musicians not only look down their noses
> at commercial music, but the even more distilled form of Hollywood
> commercial music. We were talking about Haydn, and you brought up
> Hollywood. Pavlovian for me, and sorry - the only jerk in the room
> (apparently) was the jerk in my "knee-jerk".
>
> >I don't know what your problem is, but you really need to get over it. Please!
>
> Fine, see above. If you ever want to take seriously the idea of making
> these electronic renderings breath and phrase more naturally, let us know.
> It can be done, and in fact I'm going to do a recording tomorrow with a
> friend of mine: he is - God forbid - not only a Hollywood composer but was
> one of the 5 this year to be nominated for an Emmy for his work on a
> television series. Larry can write/play/record string lines that would fool
> almost every set of ears I can think of, and all done with both sampling
> and synthesis (and, of course, done strictly to show the director how the
> cue will go, before going into the studio to record live with a full orch).
>
> I'll ask him for some pointers. If you care to take your musical adventures
> to another level, I'd be happy to share anything I learn.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 07:28:46 -0000
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> > I'll ask him for some pointers. If you care to take your musical
> adventures
> > to another level, I'd be happy to share anything I learn.
>
> I could use some pointers.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:05:43 -0000
> From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> > Again, sorry. Many, many classical musicians not only look down
> their noses
> > at commercial music, but the even more distilled form of Hollywood
> > commercial music.
>
> Well, I don't need to do that, not being a classical musician, but a
> musical mad scientist. I'm also a fan of Erich Wolfgang Korngold and
> Bernard Herrmann, and not in the habit of sneering at film composers
> in general. I've had a couple of occasions where I thought I might
> have discovered an underappreciated film composer, where I saw how
> first-rate talent does make itself known. Once was when I saw On the
> Waterfront--"Who *is* this guy? He's fantastic! What other films has
> he done??" It turned out to be Leonard Bernstein, of course. He didn't
> get the Oscar, which went to Dimitri Tiompkin, who didn't need the
> spare, but the Academy Awards can be screwy. I was similarly impressed
> by the score of The Red Pony, which turned out to be by some guy named
> Copland. By the time I saw Alexander Nevksy I was a little more aware
> and knew the score was by Prokoviev. I've never seen Scott of the
> Antarctic, but I did see Monty Python's parody.
>
> Leonard Bernstein never won an Oscar, but Elmer did. So have Copland,
> Corligliano, Arnold, and Dun; Korngold glommed three.
>
> Lenny should have won that year. :(
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:59:49 +0200
> From: Daniel Wolf <djwolf1@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> Film music has been one of the areas where non-tonal music can find a
> wide audience. I have sometimes noticed some microtonal music as well
> -- albeit often as an unintended result of a poorly tuned sample bank.
> Even the prepared piano has become a studio staple (on second thought,
> that's not surprising, as the prepared piano was, in a real way, an
> ancestor of contemporary samplers).
>
> But composition for film is an enterprise with its own rules. The recent
> discussion over the "composer's responsibility" for all aspects of a
> score does not apply to film. Consider, for example, the excellent
> scores of Alex North. Without Henry Brant as orchestrator, they would
> scarcely be recognizeable. Was North neglecting his responsiblity? Nope.
> His responsibility including handing his particell over to Brant in due
> time.
>
> DJW
>
> Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> > <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> >
> > > Again, sorry. Many, many classical musicians not only look down
> > their noses
> > > at commercial music, but the even more distilled form of Hollywood
> > > commercial music.
> >
> > Well, I don't need to do that, not being a classical musician, but a
> > musical mad scientist. I'm also a fan of Erich Wolfgang Korngold and
> > Bernard Herrmann, and not in the habit of sneering at film composers
> > in general. I've had a couple of occasions where I thought I might
> > have discovered an underappreciated film composer, where I saw how
> > first-rate talent does make itself known. Once was when I saw On the
> > Waterfront--"Who *is* this guy? He's fantastic! What other films has
> > he done??" It turned out to be Leonard Bernstein, of course. He didn't
> > get the Oscar, which went to Dimitri Tiompkin, who didn't need the
> > spare, but the Academy Awards can be screwy. I was similarly impressed
> > by the score of The Red Pony, which turned out to be by some guy named
> > Copland. By the time I saw Alexander Nevksy I was a little more aware
> > and knew the score was by Prokoviev. I've never seen Scott of the
> > Antarctic, but I did see Monty Python's parody.
> >
> > Leonard Bernstein never won an Oscar, but Elmer did. So have Copland,
> > Corligliano, Arnold, and Dun; Korngold glommed three.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:13:30 +0200
> From: Daniel Wolf <djwolf1@...>
> Subject: Re: Above and beyond with DJ Wolf
>
> Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
>
> >
> >P.S. I hadn't ever thought of it before, but couldn't you get a nice side
> >career going in the dance clubs in Hungary as DJ Wolf? :)
> >
> >
> >
> Actually, when I applied for membership in GEMA, I had to select the
> name under which my works would be identified. My first choice was
> D.J.Wolf (my American friends call me "Deej"), and my second choice was
> "Daniel Wolf". But both names were already taken: "DJ Wolf" is a
> German techno person, and "Daniel Wolf" is an Ascap composer, noted for
> his songs "Stand by the Navy", "Gift of Peace", "Weather Forecast", and
> "French Lessons". So GEMA assigned me my whole name. It's a hassle, but
> fortunately the pseudonym I use for U-Musik ("Entertainment Music") was
> still available.
>
> I don't know what I'd do if I had to choose a name all over again. My
> friend Johannes Walter just added "Caspar" to his name. How about
> "Rutherford B. Hayes"?
>
> DJW
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:14:58 -0700
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> Daniel,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >Film music has been one of the areas where non-tonal music can find a wide
> >audience. I have sometimes noticed some microtonal music as well --
> >albeit often as an unintended result of a poorly tuned sample bank.
>
> There is some very purposeful stuff as well; James Newton Howard is one
> that comes to mind.
>
> >But composition for film is an enterprise with its own rules. The recent
> >discussion over the "composer's responsibility" for all aspects of a score
> >does not apply to film.
>
> That isn't universally true (these days). In the "golden" age of film
> scoring, the composer sat at the piano and banged out sketches, and the
> orchestrator did the other work. But the field has spread in both
> directions, from the younger midiot composers who only know how to bang out
> things with a sequencer and samples and loops and *need* someone to write
> out the stuff for other instruments (and try to explain what the composer
> wants to the instrumentalists in terms they understand), to composers who
> are intimately tied with their choice of instrumentation. One other thing
> to throw into the mix is the inhumane time compression of the scoring
> environment, which these days practically dictates a team approach.
>
> I'll cut out, as we're probably way OT at this point...
> Jon
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:09:01 -0700
> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> Subject: Re: mp3 and ogg on the same page
>
> {you wrote...}
> >--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> >I'm also a fan of Erich Wolfgang Korngold and Bernard Herrmann, and not in
> >the habit of sneering at film composers in general.
>
> I'm a fan, too, and have ties to that community. Also, I would note that
> music from Hollywood is not singularly about film, but much of popular music.
>
> >Leonard Bernstein never won an Oscar, but Elmer did. So have Copland,
> >Corligliano, Arnold, and Dun; Korngold glommed three.
>
> There are a lot of good, young, film composers out there these days.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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Re: [MMM] the challenge of (MIDI) timbre

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@...>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@...>