Piece from a newbie

Hey everyone, I'm an undergrad student whose been interested in just intonation for a
couple of years. It's great to listen in on some of these discussions!

Anyway, I just posted a short piece of mine, and I would love your feedback. It was
originally written for a violin and two cellos, but I don't have a recording yet. It's a set of
variations based on an ancient greak theme (circa 5th or 6th century b.c.e., I believe). It
uses the enharmonic genera, which means that the fourth is divided roughly into 1/4-
tone, 1/4-tone, major third (although I used pythagorean ratios for this rendering, not
ET).

I would love your feedback. It's a pretty short piece. It's in the "files" section of the group
site, in the "Chris Bryan" folder. (Does anyone know if there's an easy link to those files?)

Thanks in advance,

-Chris Bryan

Chris,

Very nice, very nice. Funny you should post this right now: just a couple weeks ago, George Secor passed along his synthesized versions of Partch's "Two Studies", which are both built on ancient Greek tunings. (And George did pretty renditions of them, with a couple teeny-tiny caveats). And I'm just finishing post-production on the first volume of a 4 volume reissue of the CRI Partch series to come out on New World Records, so I was listening to the mastering of those two studies in their original recordings. A lot of Greek intonation passing over my eardrums these days.

You have a very nice piano sound, and I found the rubato and rhythmic aspects of either your playing or composition to have a very fluid feel. I'm sure MMM will look forward to more of your work in the days ahead!

Cheers,
Jon

> I'm just finishing post-production on the first volume of a 4 volume
> reissue of the CRI Partch series to come out on New World Records,

How are those different from the other Partch series that's out there?
(sorry for the vagueness, but I'll assume you know what I'm talking
about!)

> You have a very nice piano sound,

That's the default soundfont that comes with the timidity synth in
linux. If you'd like it, I can send it to you.

> and I found the rubato and rhythmic aspects of either your playing
or > composition to have a very fluid feel.

Actually, that was just a midi rendering of the score, so it's all in
the form of cross-rhythms.

> I'm sure MMM will look forward to more of your work in the days
> ahead!

Thanks! It seems that MMM has a smaller, "homier" aspect than the
tuning list. I appreciate that, as well as the focus on practicality.

-Chris

Hi Chris,

{you wrote...}
>How are those different from the other Partch series that's out there? >(sorry for the vagueness, but I'll assume you know what I'm talking about!)

Slightly OT, though one could listen to JI music for inspiration... :) There are, technically speaking, reissues of the 4 CDs from CRI; CRI went insolvent a couple of years ago and thus they have been out of print. New World Records has taken over their catalog (their mission is identical: keep music of American composers in print and available), and we are simply taking the opportunity to go over them again to make sure everything is as good as possible. Booklets are somewhat redesigned (still the good liner notes from Bob Gilmore), and just some minor tweaking with audio presentation. These are seminal works, and need to stay available.

>That's the default soundfont that comes with the timidity synth in >linux. If you'd like it, I can send it to you.

No need really, as I don't have a soundfont player that reacts multitimbrally (I don't use Timidity).

>Actually, that was just a midi rendering of the score, so it's all in the >form of cross-rhythms.

Good rhythmic composition, then!

>Thanks! It seems that MMM has a smaller, "homier" aspect than the tuning >list. I appreciate that, as well as the focus on practicality.

Gee, just as it was always intended!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> ... Funny you should post this right now: just a couple
> weeks ago, George Secor passed along his synthesized versions of
Partch's
> "Two Studies", which are both built on ancient Greek tunings. (And
George
> did pretty renditions of them, with a couple teeny-tiny caveats).

Hi Jon! Nice to see that you're back.

I hope to get the synthesized Partch out for all to hear (see below),
after which I would ask you to please share your comments. (It
occurred to me that perhaps I should have arranged for an animator to
create a video clip with characters performing on the Partch
instruments, so as to make this a "corporeal" synthesized
performance, but I suppose that's not one of your criticisms, Jon. ;-
)

> And I'm
> just finishing post-production on the first volume of a 4 volume
reissue of
> the CRI Partch series to come out on New World Records, so I was
listening
> to the mastering of those two studies in their original recordings.
A lot
> of Greek intonation passing over my eardrums these days.

In case you were wondering what source material I used to produce
synthesized Partch, I have both a Gate 5 recording that includes
those Greek Studies and a facsimile copy of Partch's handwritten
score. I originally played these Etudes on the Scalatron around
1976, and you can hear recordings of each one as musical background
for the mythical introduction to the Sagittal microtonal notation
system at:

http://dkeenan.com/sagittal/gift/GiftOfTheGods.htm

Olympos' Pentatonic plays during Episode 1 and Archytas' Enharmonic
during Episode 2.

I don't think that these (real-time overdubbed) performances are as
good as my newly synthesized versions, and I would appreciate your
opinion about these, Jon. I've been trying to talk Dave Keenan into
replacing them with the new versions, but he seems to prefer the
Scalatron recordings as being more important historically.

Perhaps I could get him to replace them temporarily and allow MMM
members to vote for their preference.

--George

On Tuesday 17 August 2004 11:56 am, chrisbryan82 wrote:
> Hey everyone, I'm an undergrad student whose been interested in just
> intonation for a couple of years. It's great to listen in on some of these
> discussions!
>
> Anyway, I just posted a short piece of mine, and I would love your
> feedback. It was originally written for a violin and two cellos, but I
> don't have a recording yet. It's a set of variations based on an ancient
> greak theme (circa 5th or 6th century b.c.e., I believe). It uses the
> enharmonic genera, which means that the fourth is divided roughly into 1/4-
> tone, 1/4-tone, major third (although I used pythagorean ratios for this
> rendering, not ET).
>
> I would love your feedback. It's a pretty short piece. It's in the
> "files" section of the group site, in the "Chris Bryan" folder. (Does
> anyone know if there's an easy link to those files?)

I think this piece has potential. My caveat is the MIDI file performance of
it, which is undifferentiated in terms of dynamics, subtle timing,
articulation, etc. I had to imagine what a really nice performance of it
would make me think, and I think it would be great to hear played in a
masterly way....

Keep em coming !!!

Best,

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

George,

{you wrote...}
>Hi Jon! Nice to see that you're back.

I'll check in occasionally - and when I know you're here, it really makes it nice!

>I hope to get the synthesized Partch out for all to hear (see below), >after which I would ask you to please share your comments. (It occurred >to me that perhaps I should have arranged for an animator to create a >video clip with characters performing on the Partch instruments, so as to >make this a "corporeal" synthesized
>performance, but I suppose that's not one of your criticisms, Jon. ;-)

Absolutely not! :) BTW, if you don't know about the Partch feature site from Minnesota Public Radio that accompanies the "American Mavericks" radio series (they were the producers) on NPR, you should - among other things, there are demos of the instruments, and on some of them you can 'play' the instruments virtually, which cause an on-screen player to play on the instrument. Sadly enough, there is *me* at the ripe age of 19, long hair and all, reaching out to strike the Boo!

>In case you were wondering what source material I used to produce >synthesized Partch, I have both a Gate 5 recording that includes those >Greek Studies and a facsimile copy of Partch's handwritten score. I >originally played these Etudes on the Scalatron around 1976, and you can >hear recordings of each one as musical background for the mythical >introduction to the Sagittal microtonal notation
>system at:
>
>http://dkeenan.com/sagittal/gift/GiftOfTheGods.htm

I'll check it out - I hadn't heard those, just the 3 mp3 files you sent/posted.

>I don't think that these (real-time overdubbed) performances are as good >as my newly synthesized versions, and I would appreciate your opinion >about these, Jon. I've been trying to talk Dave Keenan into replacing >them with the new versions, but he seems to prefer the Scalatron >recordings as being more important historically.

I will listen, though one should always bear in mind that some performances have a very special nature, even if they aren't "as good".

>Perhaps I could get him to replace them temporarily and allow MMM members >to vote for their preference.

Voting? Gad, MoveOn and the Heritage Foundation will start flooding MMM with soft-money ads!

Cheers,
Jon

P.S. You should *definitely* use the ArchytL version, as the other is an octave too high, and if these are still available in a sequence form I'd try a slower tempo and re-record them. That particular piece uses the lower part of the Canon, which is strung with the heavier, wound guitar strings, and needs both the lower octave rendition and a darker, weightier quality. Beyond that, you've done a good simulation, and they would be good for your illustrative purposes...

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> George,
>
> {you wrote...}
>
> >I hope to get the synthesized Partch out for all to hear (see
below),
> >after which I would ask you to please share your comments. ...
> ...
> >I don't think that these (real-time overdubbed) performances are
as good
> >as my newly synthesized versions, and I would appreciate your
opinion
> >about these, Jon. I've been trying to talk Dave Keenan into
replacing
> >them with the new versions, but he seems to prefer the Scalatron
> >recordings as being more important historically.
>
> I will listen, though one should always bear in mind that some
performances
> have a very special nature, even if they aren't "as good".

True, but I was thinking that the technical perfection of the
synthesized version (plus the fact that I could deliberately adjust
the volume of every note until I had exactly what I wanted) produces
a crispness that is lacking in the Scalatron versions.

> P.S. You should *definitely* use the ArchytL version, as the other
is an
> octave too high,

Yes, now that I've had a chance to listen to it several times, I
think that the lower octave emphasizes the more sombre quality of the
enharmonic etude.

> and if these are still available in a sequence form I'd
> try a slower tempo and re-record them.

I used the tempos indicated on the score, but I could easily adjust
those and redo them. I was thinking that perhaps the tempo of the
enharmonic etude could vary in places. I should listen again to my
Scalatron versions to see what I did, and also the original
recording, if I can locate it. (I said that I had a Gate 5 record
that contained it, but I find I was mistaken. I now remember that I
made a tape recording from a Gate 5 record while I was visiting Ben
Johnston and Sanford Berry at the University of Illinois in 1975.)

> That particular piece uses the lower
> part of the Canon, which is strung with the heavier, wound guitar
strings,
> and needs both the lower octave rendition and a darker, weightier
quality.

I tried, but with what I have to work with, I can't come up with a
better timbre for that.

> Beyond that, you've done a good simulation, and they would be good
for your
> illustrative purposes...

Thanks for the comments. I find that I'm really beginning to enjoy
producing electronic performances, and the good results I've gotten
with the Partch etudes have motivated me to continue working on my
own pieces -- if only I could make more time!

--George

George,

{you wrote...}
>True, but I was thinking that the technical perfection of the synthesized >version (plus the fact that I could deliberately adjust the volume of >every note until I had exactly what I wanted) produces a crispness that is >lacking in the Scalatron versions.

No doubt. Just didn't want you to disown your earlier children!

>Yes, now that I've had a chance to listen to it several times, I think >that the lower octave emphasizes the more sombre quality of the enharmonic >etude.

My thoughts as well.

>I used the tempos indicated on the score, but I could easily adjust those >and redo them.

I heard HP play these a few times, plus those of us who learned them as well, and I believe the 'performance practice' ends up superceding what might have been carved in stone. :)

>I was thinking that perhaps the tempo of the enharmonic etude could vary >in places.

Oh, absolutely. It is nice to have the strumming hand (left hand part) be _somewhat_ in time, with the melody quite rubato over it. BTW, there is a fellow by the name of Philip Arnautoff who built a very nice (and large) Harmonic Canon, and he visited and corresponded with HP. He plays these two pieces very well, and I'll look to see if I have any recordings of him.

>(I said that I had a Gate 5 record that contained it, but I find I was >mistaken. I now remember that I made a tape recording from a Gate 5 >record while I was visiting Ben Johnston and Sanford Berry at the >University of Illinois in 1975.)

George, write me off-list: as archivist for the Partch Foundation, I'll see that you get any recordings you might need for your performance/recording activities.

>I tried, but with what I have to work with, I can't come up with a better >timbre for that.

I don't know if you simply record these in real-time, but if you are using a moderately modern sequencer/digital workstation, you could always use some good EQ plugin to roll off some of the highs. Lots of ways one could deal with things like this, if it happened to be the only thing they want to do with their life... :)

>I find that I'm really beginning to enjoy producing electronic >performances, and the good results I've gotten with the Partch etudes have >motivated me to continue working on my own pieces -- if only I could make >more time!

When you find out how to make more time, would you mind posting the source code? I'd like to make some as well.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> George,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >True, but I was thinking that the technical perfection of the
synthesized
> >version (plus the fact that I could deliberately adjust the volume
of
> >every note until I had exactly what I wanted) produces a crispness
that is
> >lacking in the Scalatron versions.
>
> No doubt. Just didn't want you to disown your earlier children!

They'll always remain close to my heart! ;-)

> >Yes, now that I've had a chance to listen to it several times, I
think
> >that the lower octave emphasizes the more sombre quality of the
enharmonic
> >etude.
>
> My thoughts as well.
>
> >I used the tempos indicated on the score, but I could easily
adjust those
> >and redo them.
>
> I heard HP play these a few times, plus those of us who learned
them as
> well, and I believe the 'performance practice' ends up superceding
what
> might have been carved in stone. :)

Okay, I've redone them, and here are the new files (for all to hear):

/makemicromusic/files/secor/Olympos5.mp3
/makemicromusic/files/secor/Archyt7.mp3

Since space is very limited in the files section, so please be warned
that I'm leaving them out there for only a few days.

Jon, you and others are welcome to comment on these and/or compare
them with my Scalatron performances c. 1976, which can be heard at
the Sagittal notation website, as I previously mentioned:

http://dkeenan.com/sagittal/gift/GiftOfTheGods.htm

Olympos' Pentatonic plays during Episode 1 and Archytas' Enharmonic
during Episode 2.

--George

>Okay, I've redone them, and here are the new files (for all to hear):
>
>/makemicromusic/files/secor/Olympos5.mp3
>/makemicromusic/files/secor/Archyt7.mp3

Nice! What did you redo them on?

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >Okay, I've redone them, and here are the new files (for all to
hear):
> >
>
>/makemicromusic/files/secor/Olympos5.mp3
>
>/makemicromusic/files/secor/Archyt7.mp3
>
> Nice! What did you redo them on?
>
> -Carl

Ancient equipment and software. I used Cakewalk (inserting pitch-
bends manually) and the soundcard that came with the desktop computer
(a 7-year-old Gateway running at 166MHz on Windows 98) that I
inherited as a hand-me-down from my daughter when I bought her a new
computer for a college graduation present 3 years ago to replace the
one I had bought her when she started college.

I thought that it would be best not to spend any money on anything
more elaborate until I had put in some time to find out what I could
do with what I already had, thinking that it would also be a good
learning experience for me. As things stand, I don't expect to buy
any new music software (or new hardware capable of running it) before
Monz's "Musica" is available.

--George

>>/makemicromusic/files/secor/Olympos5.mp3
>>
>>/makemicromusic/files/secor/Archyt7.mp3
>>
>> Nice! What did you redo them on?
>
>Ancient equipment and software. I used Cakewalk (inserting pitch-
>bends manually)

Good job!

>I thought that it would be best not to spend any money on anything
>more elaborate until I had put in some time to find out what I could
>do with what I already had,

Way to go. I've got all the latest everything and no time to use
it.

-Carl

George,
These are great versions of the Partch pieces. They make it possible
to hear more clearly what his harmonic activity was really about. I
know corporeality was the method and medium he wanted, but sometimes
the instruments get in the way of the musical ideas. There were
sometimes too many artifacts in his recordings, with pick noise, or
sliding sounds that make it hard to hear the notes. Your realization
is just the notes, with timbres that make it a great tool for learning
his thoughts.

Prent Rodgers

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "George D. Secor"
<gdsecor@y...> wrote:

> Okay, I've redone them, and here are the new files (for all to hear):
>
> /makemicromusic/files/secor/Olympos5.mp3
> /makemicromusic/files/secor/Archyt7.mp3
>
> --George

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Prent Rodgers"
<prentrodgers@c...> wrote:
> George,
> These are great versions of the Partch pieces. They make it possible
> to hear more clearly what his harmonic activity was really about. I
> know corporeality was the method and medium he wanted, but sometimes
> the instruments get in the way of the musical ideas. There were
> sometimes too many artifacts in his recordings, with pick noise, or
> sliding sounds that make it hard to hear the notes. Your realization
> is just the notes, with timbres that make it a great tool for
learning
> his thoughts.
>
> Prent Rodgers

I had exactly the same reaction when I heard the Brandenburg Concerto
in the first Switched-on Bach album, when it first came out way back
when. With the electronic medium it's possible for the music to have
a greater transparency, such that the parts are all clearly
distinguishable -- not always possible with acoustic instruments.

--George

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "George D. Secor"
> <gdsecor@y...> wrote:
>
> > Okay, I've redone them, and here are the new files (for all to
hear):
> >
> >
/makemicromusic/files/secor/Olympos5.mp3
> >
/makemicromusic/files/secor/Archyt7.mp3
> >
> > --George