Re: The MMM community and human factors

Please let me express my regrets for having had some Internet access
problems at an interesting time for the musicians and friends in our
community, while noting that this gives me a certain "unfair advantage" in
having the benefit of other people's comments in making my own.

First, Jon, I'd like to emphasize a concern we both share, you as
moderator and List Mom, and me as someone involved with you and Jacky
Ligon in fouding this list: civility and an atmosphere that fosters the
making of music.

While Jon can and does speak eloquently for himself and his difficult
position as moderator, I'd like to speak as a member who enjoys theory and
history with a passion as long as they promote curiosity and mutual
enthusiasm in our diversity of traditions and styles rather than a kind of
contention or unfortunate kind of comparison that can discourage rather
than add zest to the composition, improvisation, and performance that
should be our main focus.

What has happened, sadly, is that the kind of contention regrettably not
so rare on the Tuning group has made incursions here: debates about which
tunings are "best," or whose terminology is "jargon."

What I favor is an MMM where people concentrate on sharing or describing
their own music and tunings, or offering constructive feedback on the
music of others. Here an outstanding model is Jacky Ligon, whose mastery
of timbre and penchant for complex JI has produced both beautiful music
(sometimes mixing electronic and acoustical sounds) and fascinating
theory.

While I can't speak for Jon, I can say that an MMM avoiding the
contention, unconstructive conflict, and discouraging comparisons would be
a much more pleasant place for me.

Jon, from what I know of your values, I might guess that part of the
dilemma for you is, as moderator, taking the role of List Mom in a place
where incivility and contention seem difficult to control, and
participating seems a kind of cooperation with a state of affairs that we
set out specifically to avoid.

Thus if this forum is to succeed, we need a policy of concerted avoidance
of this style of conflict based on a strong agreement of the group, and
noncooperation with such unconstructive discussions.

The history of European music, at least, shows that e-mail communication
is hardly the first arena of this kind of style of conflict, although some
aspects of e-mail communication might tend both to loosen inhibitions
against verbal intemperance or even abuse while making misunderstandings
of intended meaning or tone more likely, sadly sometimes with an
escalating effect.

Thus I would suggest that if we want to negotiate a new basis for MMM --
wherever hosted -- that we commit ourselves to civility and musicmaking as
the center of our activities. It means especially that we refrain from
theorizing in negative or discouraging ways about tuning systems that we
_don't_ use.

That is, if someone here expresses an interest in creating some music in
tuning system M, I'd see it quite appropriate to lend encouragement and to
explain how I use tuning system M -- ideally with some music, or at least
some kind of notated example(s).

However, I'd urge that discussions on why _not_ to use tuning system M, or
what tuning others might prefer, be directed elsewhere -- except, of
course, that everyone is encouraged to post music and share their
explanations about it in _any_ desired tuning.

That means that we would need a strong communal commitment as part of the
shared culture of this group to engage in concerted nonviolent resistance
against any incursion of unconstructive or uncivil "tuning wars" into this
forum.

The question is whether we can achieve this, and if so, how.

Since the original MMM guidelines that Jon has often mentioned seem quite
adequate to me, I would invite people in this community who want to
maintain MMM as a forum in keeping with those guidelines express our
commitment to do so here.

I would like to affirm this commitment, and to urge that we make MMM a
showcase of diversity where people doing the most adventurous, artful,
and vulnerable kinds of musicmaking can feel more at home.

People can be hurt by a culture of bellicosity -- especially, from an MMM
standpoint, people who are making "far out" music (even by "microtonal
community" standards) and who need encouragement.

Whatever the mix of music and theory that prevails here, I'd to like to
see MMM as a refuge from bellicosity and a refuge for new or
unconventional music and theory alike.

Jon, I'm not sure how well this answers your concerns, and I warmly invite
your feedback as someone who has struggled with the less positive aspects
of what has been going on here for too long.

Most appreciatively,

Margo

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter
<mschulter@c...> wrote:
>
> Whatever the mix of music and theory that prevails here, I'd to
like to
> see MMM as a refuge from bellicosity and a refuge for new or
> unconventional music and theory alike.

Re theory, I've found that the human factor is such that discussions
on these lists can often go off on tangents that have little or
nothing to do with the subject title, or start with a discussion of a
particular composition and go off on a theoretical tangent that
properly belongs on the main list (yes, I've been guilty of that).

This is not to discourage such replies, but just to encourage others
(and also to remind myself) to reply elsewhere and then put a message
here with a link to the reply, just so MMM will better serve its
intended purpose.

Jon, may I take this opportunity to express my appreciation for all
the time and effort you've put in toward making this list a place
where we can share our efforts with and appreciation for one
another. I warmly applaud your decision to pass on your
responsibility to others, and while this has been a difficult time
for you, you can rest assured that it has served as a wake-up call
for the rest of us that will make the task of your successors a much
less difficult one.

Also, I want to let you know I haven't forgotten that I owe you a
reply to a discussion about the relationship of musical styles to
microtonality:
/tuning/topicId_53851.html#54146
which I could not help thinking about when I posted this yesterday:
/tuning/topicId_54642.html#54747

While both of these messages are intimately connected with practical
aspects of "making microtonal music" rather than theory, they are
concerned with that topic primarily in a general sense and are apt to
lead to a lively (and, if one is not careful, heated) debate about
the merits (or lack thereof) of certain musical styles. I would
conclude, therefore, that (even if there is the slightest doubt) such
discussions should be kept on the main list, with a short notice and
link posted here for those who might be interested in following
and/or responding.

If we focus the discussion here on specific compositions submitted by
list participants and confine our more general comments to
information that will be useful to others in their creation and/or
understanding of such compositions, then I think that this would go a
long way toward fulfilling the intent of making this a place where we
can be comfortable in sharing our musical efforts, ideas, and dreams.

Music! music!

--George

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter <mschulter@c...>
wrote:

> Thus I would suggest that if we want to negotiate a new basis for MMM --
> wherever hosted -- that we commit ourselves to civility and
musicmaking as
> the center of our activities. It means especially that we refrain from
> theorizing in negative or discouraging ways about tuning systems that we
> _don't_ use.

I would add to that that we refrain from commenting in sweeping
negative ways about musical styles we don't use. We ought to be able
to use overdriven guitars or sackbutts, or fonts for overdriven
guitars or sackbutts, without exciting derision. In fact, we should be
allowed to take Purple Haze, change the tuning to miracle, perform it
using sackbutts, and post a link to the results without getting a lot
of nasty commentary. Saying you don't like something or think it can
be improved in specific ways is one thing, but saying that *anything*
you could possibly do along certain lines is automatically garbage is
what I think we should avoid; it is a blanket condemnation to which no
polite reply is possible. We should be allowed to draw inspiration
from any time and any place; we should be able to draw inspirtation
from the 11th century or the 21st century without someone becoming
negative about it.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith"
<gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter
<mschulter@c...>
> wrote:
>
> > Thus I would suggest that if we want to negotiate a new basis for
MMM --
> > wherever hosted -- that we commit ourselves to civility and
> musicmaking as
> > the center of our activities. It means especially that we refrain
from
> > theorizing in negative or discouraging ways about tuning systems
that we
> > _don't_ use.
>
> I would add to that that we refrain from commenting in sweeping
> negative ways about musical styles we don't use. We ought to be able
> to use overdriven guitars or sackbutts, or fonts for overdriven
> guitars or sackbutts, without exciting derision. In fact, we should
be
> allowed to take Purple Haze, change the tuning to miracle, perform
it
> using sackbutts, and post a link to the results without getting a
lot
> of nasty commentary. Saying you don't like something or think it can
> be improved in specific ways is one thing, but saying that
*anything*
> you could possibly do along certain lines is automatically garbage
is
> what I think we should avoid; it is a blanket condemnation to which
no
> polite reply is possible. We should be allowed to draw inspiration
> from any time and any place; we should be able to draw inspirtation
> from the 11th century or the 21st century without someone becoming
> negative about it.

Or:

When in doubt,
Close your mout'!

--George

George,

Beautiful post, well put. I blush at the compliments, and thank you for adding your reasoned voice to the future of this group. With attitudes like this, much can happen.

In appreciation,
Jon