In absentia

Hi,

I just found out my mail was bouncing from Yahoo, and I've missed a couple of days of posts (I was also building up a new computer, and thought maybe the quietude was due to my not getting everything right in the transfer...).

Anyhow, Aaron: I enjoyed the improv - one of the things that seems to clue me in to good musicians is how even an improvisation will exhibit form and/or development as it goes along; it seems like a trait that becomes ingrained, and you seem to have the symptoms! I also liked KG's scale, and since it is a 12 note scale I think I'll try loading it up on the hardware as well as soft synths and see what I can come up with.

More as time permits...

Cheers,
Jon

On Thursday 27 May 2004 11:00 am, Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just found out my mail was bouncing from Yahoo, and I've missed a couple
> of days of posts (I was also building up a new computer, and thought maybe
> the quietude was due to my not getting everything right in the
> transfer...).
>
> Anyhow, Aaron: I enjoyed the improv - one of the things that seems to clue
> me in to good musicians is how even an improvisation will exhibit form
> and/or development as it goes along; it seems like a trait that becomes
> ingrained, and you seem to have the symptoms! I also liked KG's scale, and
> since it is a 12 note scale I think I'll try loading it up on the hardware
> as well as soft synths and see what I can come up with.

Thanks, Jon....about Centaur-its a great JI 7-limit scale for most general
purposes, and has the added feature of some usable triads that beat slightly
that are side effects of the main tuning....

I also enjoy a good non-just 12-note tuning like Jorgensens 5&7 temperament (a
subset of 35-equal) for the non-western gamelan-ish type thing, and for the
beating of 7-equal and 5-equal, which I love to use over a just tuning
alot....I like activity in my stasis !!!

Best,
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
<akjmicro@c...> wrote:

> Thanks, Jon....about Centaur-its a great JI 7-limit scale for most
general
> purposes, and has the added feature of some usable triads that beat
slightly
> that are side effects of the main tuning....

I don't know if you've tried any of Carl Lumma's or A. D. Fokker's 12-
note 7-limit JI scales, but you should . . . :) In those scales,
you'll find a wealth of intervals that are separated from simple-
ratio consonance by 225:224, or about 7.7 cents.

> I also enjoy a good non-just 12-note tuning like Jorgensens 5&7
>temperament (a
> subset of 35-equal)

I was chatting with you and threw out this 35-equal figure, but you
pointed out that this couldn't be right, and we found that the
correct "superset" was actually 70-equal. That's because the 5-equal
and 7-equal subsets of this keyboard tuning do not coincide on a
single note, but rather they have notes, one from each subset, that
are as far apart as possible (mapped to D and G#/Ab on the keyboard),
i.e., 1/2 octave.

> beating of 7-equal and 5-equal, which I love to use over a just
>tuning
> alot....

You mean in overdubs, or . . .

Paul,

{you wrote...}
>I don't know if you've tried any of Carl Lumma's or A. D. Fokker's 12-note >7-limit JI scales, but you should . . . :) In those scales, you'll find a >wealth of intervals that are separated from simple-ratio consonance by >225:224, or about 7.7 cents.

I don't know whether someone "should" try other scales, but this does bring up a real interesting scenario, very easily done with softsynths: compose a piece using 12 note scales, and then record versions using the alternate tunings. Maybe this would shed light on the 'should-ness' of various 12 note JI tunings.

But then we'd be listening to tunings instead of music! :)

Cheers,
Jon

> compose a
> piece using 12 note scales, and then record versions using the alternate
> tunings. Maybe this would shed light on the 'should-ness' of various 12
> note JI tunings.

I've done this, particularly a few years back with a Bach harmonized
chorale, which is short and right in the "common practice harmony" era.
Listening to it in several different tunings displays a number of
interesting shades. Some tunings seem more suited than others.

Hmm, maybe I'll dust off my examples & post somewhere.

Rick

This is a very Lou Harrison Idea in that he conceived his pelog and slendro
pieces as what you suggest for 12.

"Jonathan M. Szanto" wrote:

> compose a
> piece using 12 note scales, and then record versions using the alternate
> tunings. Maybe this would shed light on the 'should-ness' of various 12
> note JI tunings.
>
> But then we'd be listening to tunings instead of music! :)
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Rick,

{you wrote...}
>Listening to it in several different tunings displays a number of >interesting shades. Some tunings seem more suited than others.

I'll bet. And we've gotten to the point where pieces can be composed that could take advantage of 'modulating' to different tunings without a great deal of difficulty, and a very simple piece, cast in different tunings, might point out areas that one could take advantage of these mods.

I wish I didn't think about things I probably don't have time to do...

>Hmm, maybe I'll dust off my examples & post somewhere.

There you go threatening us again. I hope I don't have to guess the tuning, as I always feel like such a dope!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >I don't know if you've tried any of Carl Lumma's or A. D. Fokker's
12-note
> >7-limit JI scales, but you should . . . :) In those scales, you'll
find a
> >wealth of intervals that are separated from simple-ratio
consonance by
> >225:224, or about 7.7 cents.
>
> I don't know whether someone "should" try other scales,

Well then, so OK, let them stick with 12-equal forever . . . ;)

> but this does bring
> up a real interesting scenario, very easily done with softsynths:
compose a
> piece using 12 note scales, and then record versions using the
alternate
> tunings.

I seriously doubt that would make any sense in Aaron's case. He's got
a great ear, and composes carefully, composing according to the
tuning's resources. Translating one of his pieces from one tuning to
another would probably just ruin them, and teach us relatively little.

P,

{you wrote...}
>Well then, so OK, let them stick with 12-equal forever . . . ;)

Ouch - heretic! :)

>I seriously doubt that would make any sense in Aaron's case. He's got a >great ear, and composes carefully, composing according to the tuning's >resources. Translating one of his pieces from one tuning to another would >probably just ruin them, and teach us relatively little.

"Us" is a broad term, and your description points up one reason why it might be a clarifying experience: if someone like Aaron can (and does) zero in on a tuning that fits a need, and composes well for it, then a simple rendering of the same 12-note-scale piece in a similar tuning (not something wackily different) would give a lot of aural evidence of just what works and what doesn't. If one can sit and listen to comparisons of bare intervals, isolated chords, and minimal progressions, I can't see why comparing examples of music should be less illuminating.

If nothing else, it would give a sound to the theory behind the tuning.

Cheers,
Jon

I would like to add that it is often impossible to really predict how a piece
will sound in another tuning.
I have been surprised at the results at time. No to say i have not experience
a 'wrongness' more than once if not appalled at the reaction ( no pun
intended). Often though this is just an initial response to having it say
something different that i had intended. After the shock of this, i have grown
to like newer versions of some pieces for doing just that, going beyond what i
had attempted or accomplished. Sometimes such things have been unavoidable
when one has to cannibalize one instrument for another as i have had to do
with some pump organs, not so much to retune the reeds as to put a new set of
reed in a pre existing body with bellows. one feels like playing one's one
little piece and there it is , different.
I say the decision is the composers until he is dead and then the reality
that a piece of music has a life of its own separate from its creator must be
accepted.
As i mentioned, Lou Harrison wrote many pieces to be played on any pelog or
slendro even though i am sure there are some he would love and others he would
not.

"Jonathan M. Szanto" wrote:

> P,
>
> "Us" is a broad term, and your description points up one reason why it
> might be a clarifying experience: if someone like Aaron can (and does) zero
> in on a tuning that fits a need, and composes well for it, then a simple
> rendering of the same 12-note-scale piece in a similar tuning (not
> something wackily different) would give a lot of aural evidence of just
> what works and what doesn't. If one can sit and listen to comparisons of
> bare intervals, isolated chords, and minimal progressions, I can't see why
> comparing examples of music should be less illuminating.
>
> If nothing else, it would give a sound to the theory behind the tuning.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST