Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic OGG

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, S V G <vsyevolod@y...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone explain to me what an .ogg file is, why it is used
over something else like .wav,
> .wma, or MP3, and how can I play it on my computer?

It is a compressed audio format like wma or mp3. I like it because it
seems to work better than mp3, and has the advantage of being patent
free and open source, which deflects potential problems. To play it
on your computer, if it is a Windows OS, download and install Winamp;
we had a discussion about this on this list and the consensus we came
to was that Winamp rules.

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

On Monday 10 May 2004 03:05 am, Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, S V G <vsyevolod@y...> wrote:
> > Can anyone explain to me what an .ogg file is, why it is used
>
> over something else like .wav,
>
> > .wma, or MP3, and how can I play it on my computer?
>
> It is a compressed audio format like wma or mp3. I like it because it
> seems to work better than mp3, and has the advantage of being patent
> free and open source, which deflects potential problems.

I did some research on .mp3 vs .ogg. I might consider migrating to .ogg,
because it's consistent with my open source philosophy (I use Linux). It's
file sizes are generally smaller than mp3's, and I can hear no difference in
audio quality between an ogg file and an mp3 at a given bitrate. I did hear a
difference between them with a 128kbps, constant-bit rate mp3, and a
128kbps-average, variable-bit-rate ogg. The ogg was crisper, with clearer
high-end, but I think I could get similar quality out of an mp3 with the
write command-line switches on the LAME encoder.

However, this was hardly 'scientific'. The default variable-bit algorithm
(VBR) for 'oggenc' allows one to specify an average bit-rate, where the VBR
option on 'lame' (the linux mp3 encoder) is an abstract 'quality' parameter.
So, the problem with making an ABX comparison in my case is that it's hard to
tell what command line switches for 'oggenc' and 'lame' are close in quality,
all else being equal. So, I was comparing a fixed-bitrate mp3 (the 'lame'
default) with a variable-bitrate ogg (which averages, but sometimes exceeds,
the same fixed rate of the mp3), giving the ogg an advantage. Perhaps the
true test would be to make the highest quality .mp3 and .ogg files possible,
and do the ABX comparison from those. I doubt any discernible difference
could be heard at all, though, because at the highest bitrates, both would be
indistinguishable from CD audio....

So for me the only differences are file size, where ogg has a slight
advantage; open source, where ogg has the better philosophy for me, and
ubiquitousness, where mp3 has a distinct lead. I think that can be fixed by a
healthy public campaign for ogg files, but there a lot of inertia in the
industry because of things like iPod, etc. But I'd just as soon make people
download software for a free format, as they make me download things for
their proprietary (Windoze-based) formats! I think Real Audio sucks, and
sounds like AM radio most of the time. Maybe its just what default setting
people tend to use. BTW, how does one *encode* to .ra or .ram from .wav?

...perhaps I'll start making ogg files, and do my part to push the industry to
doing the right thing, and helping ogg mature.....

Sorry if this is considered by some to be off-topic for this list ;) I at
least consider it as on-topic as say, softsynths. We all tend to share our
music in compressed audio formats, after all, so its worth figuring things
out and comparing notes...

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

Aaron K Johnson wrote:

> I might consider migrating to .ogg,
> because it's consistent with my open source philosophy

I would never consider migrating to .ogg because:
1. I have *no* tools that support writing files in it,
but they do support .mp3.
2. Everyone and their pet rat supports reading .mp3 files,
but almost nobody supports .ogg files.

This may be a bit off topic, as Aaron said but it's important... In my
opinion, one of the main criteria people should consider when they're
looking at formats -- for *any* kind of data -- is how widely the format is
supported. We're in the beginning of the "data age" when formats go stale
and become unsupported at a frightening rate. (Just ask the US national
archives, census bureau, etc.) One thing that helps is to make sure your
data format is in a format as widely supported as possible, because the
most widely supported formats are most likely to endure in some form, and
be documented for posterity.

> BTW, how does one *encode* to .ra or .ram from .wav?

Probably buy something from the RealAudio folks, or maybe there's a "free"
writer program... I wouldn't use .ra or .ram format either.

Rick

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

I've unfortunately missed out on music distributed in .ogg format
because when I first saw these being posted, there was one OGG player
for Mac OS X and when I tried to get it the website was down.

I just did a Google and it looks like the situation has improved a
bit this month (there's even an OGG player plugin for iTunes), so
I'll give those .ogg files another shot.

When I start recording my 19-tone experiments, though, I'm going with
MP3. People might not feel like listening if they have to download
yet another player...

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Rick McGowan <rick@u...> wrote:

> This may be a bit off topic, as Aaron said but it's important... In
my
> opinion, one of the main criteria people should consider when they're
> looking at formats -- for *any* kind of data -- is how widely the
format is
> supported. We're in the beginning of the "data age" when formats go
stale
> and become unsupported at a frightening rate.

Ogg Vorbis is very unlikely to go stale at a frightening rate, because
of the open source movement. It's a little like waiting for Linux to
dry up and blow away because Windows has a bigger installed base; it
just won't happen. Ogg has not been out that long in alpha, but
software and hardware support is growing, not shrinking. I'd be more
worried about WMA.

> Probably buy something from the RealAudio folks, or maybe there's a
"free"
> writer program... I wouldn't use .ra or .ram format either.

Smart move.

OGG

🔗S V G <vsyevolod@...>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@...>

🔗S V G <vsyevolod@...>