Xentonality

Hi Gene,

I think the distinction is about whether the tuning inspired the music or
not.

Maybe a quarter comma meantone piece could be xentonal if the composer was
inspired by the tuning to write in a particular way.

While, if you take a piece originally written in a twelve tone system
of harmony, it can't be xentonal in that particular sense, by definition
as it were.

Well - you can have a twelve tone piece inspired by other tunings even
if played in twelve equal. I suppose if you took one of the Debussy
gamelan inspired pieces and tuned it to a genuine gamelan tuning,
or maybe Messian tuned in some way inspired by birdsong then that
might be xentonal because the composers inspiration was xentonal
even if the medium he chose to express it was not, so by retuning it
like that you are bringing out the xentonal inspiration of the original
piece.

Otherwise, hard for a twelve tone inspired piece retuned to be
really xentonal though it might be in very special circumstances
(such as those special remappings that acutally move the notes
around and change the ordering and the way the harmonies operate
altogether, those perhaps could be).

It's not meant as a criticism of your retunings in any way, but an attempt
to keep language and concepts clear. Correct me if I haven't understood
what xentonality means, anyone.

Thanks,

Robert

>It's not meant as a criticism of your retunings in any way, but
>an attempt to keep language and concepts clear. Correct me if I
>haven't understood what xentonality means, anyone.

Robert,

Like many here, you seem to be missing the fact that Gene has
composed a significant body of original music. It's on his
site, or will be when he gets it uploaded (the link is there).
It's definitely xenharmonic by any stretch of the word.

Xentonal I don't recall seeing in Ivor's writings (though it
wouldn't surprise me). This is Bill Sethares' term for, IIRC,
music where timbre and tuning are both non-standard.

-Carl

Hi Carl,

> Like many here, you seem to be missing the fact that Gene has
> composed a significant body of original music. It's on his
> site, or will be when he gets it uploaded (the link is there).
> It's definitely xenharmonic by any stretch of the word.

Yes, I know he has.

> Xentonal I don't recall seeing in Ivor's writings (though it
> wouldn't surprise me). This is Bill Sethares' term for, IIRC,
> music where timbre and tuning are both non-standard.

Sorry, just a slippage of words. I'll keep the distinction
in mind in future.

Thanks,

Robert

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Walker"
<robertwalker@n...> wrote:

> Correct me if I haven't understood
> what xentonality means, anyone.

I looked up what Joe has in his dictionary, which agrees exactly with
my use of the word. It seems to me you and Scott have simply gotten
the wrong idea somewhere.

xenharmonic

a term coined by Ivor Darreg from the Greek words for "strange
music". Darreg used it to refer to any non-12-EQ (microtonal) scales,
which presented strange and wonderful new intervals and sonic worlds
to explore.

[from Joe Monzo, JustMusic: A New Harmony]

Note that it is possible for a composition to be composed entirely of
intervals that would ordinarily be considered 'microtonal' without
sounding particularly unusual or 'xenharmonic'; an example is my 19-
tone Samba; other examples would be Renaissance, Baroque and
Classical music performed in historically correct temperaments.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
An adjective coined by Ivor Darreg from the Greek words "xenos,"
meaning strange, foreign, or inhospitable, and "harmonikos,"
(harmonic, etc). to refer to music in non-12-tone equally tempered
tuning. The topic noun is xenharmonics.
Xenharmonikon is a journal devoted to microtonal music which was
founded by John Chalmers in 1971.

[from John Chalmers, Divisions of the Tetrachord]

See also microtone, microtonal

microtone, microtonal

Strictly speaking, as can be inferred by its etymology, 'microtonal'
refers to small intervals. Some theorists hold this to designate only
intervals smaller than a semitone (using other terms, such
as 'macrotonal', to describe other kinds of non-12-EQ intervals),
while many others use it to refer to any intervals that deviate from
the familiar 12-equal scale, even those which are larger than the
semitone, the extreme case being exemplified by Johnny Reinhard, who
states that all tunings are to be considered microtonal.

By December of 1999, several tuning theorists who subscribe to the
Onelist Tuning List were attempting to agree on a definition, but no
clear consensus emerged, with both of the above extremes as well as
all the intermediate positions all being defended by various
subscribers.

My own view is that anyone with an interest in tuning theory must
possess a refined sensibility for perceiving subtle pitch nuances,
and so therefore the term 'microtonal' is entirely appropriate to
describe their musical and theoretical activities.

[- Joe Monzo]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Any musical interval less than a 12-tone equally tempered semitone of
100 cents.

Some theorists apply the term only to intervals less than a Limma
(90¢).

Music employing microtones may be termed microtonal from which the
noun microtonality is derived.

[from John Chalmers, Divisions of the Tetrachord]

See also xenharmonic