Re: [MMM] Digest Number 515

Hi all,

thanks for the Z1 info. I've been playing around with the Z1 I've borrowed
and you can sort of get things by:

1. altering the oscillator slopes to a value of less than 1 (multiply the
slope by 100 to get cent increments between adjacent keys)
2 setting up a full range pb scale to correct the errors, which if you set
the centre of the oscillator slopes correctly never goes too far astray for
19 and 31, and possibly 53 (latter 2 not tried - 19's quite close even
without fiddling about)

It's a pest to set up.

Also looked into multitimbres and you can have six voices only, so you can
fudge it (harmonic partial sequences) by setting the lower osc to a bigger
slope than the upper, and adjusting the pitchbends on the generalised scale
to reasonably right values.

Also a big pest to set up.

Are there any other Z1 users out there? I've not used the mac Z1 editor
/yet/, anyone with experience of this. Easier than front panel work.

But the instrument's sounds as a whole are amazing - and weird. Barely
scratched the surface of all the other (non micro) stuff. Noticed that there
is something that can make the pitch bend move up/down harmonic series. Will
report when read and undestood.

Mark

Thanks for spotting that one. Am a bit ignorant of how to do this. Will need
to read the manual again a few times.

Maybe we should put a caveat on the Z1 entry on the microsynthesis page.

Anyone care to recommend a keyboard that *does* support the kind of tuning I
want, i.e. any key to any pitch?

M

> From: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 25 Feb 2003 18:15:04 -0000
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MMM] Digest Number 515
>
> There is one possibility. One modulation source is the keyboard notes.
> You could use this as a "rough" tuning of notes per octave for the
> oscillators and filters, then use the full keyboard microtuning scale to
> add the appropriate offsets. This would only be useful if you always
> used the same number of notes per octave, otherwise you'll need a unique
> voice programmed per scale.

The web site is already fixed. Due to a web forwarding scheme I'm using
this may not update immediately on your computer, even if you hit
refresh.

You might look at the new Vintage Pro from Emu, but look out for the
sample transposition problem as noted at my web site.

John Loffink
jloffink@...

The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/

The Wavemakers Modular and Integrated Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Gould [mailto:mark.gould@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Digest Number 515
>
> Thanks for spotting that one. Am a bit ignorant of how to do this.
Will
> need
> to read the manual again a few times.
>
> Maybe we should put a caveat on the Z1 entry on the microsynthesis
page.
>
> Anyone care to recommend a keyboard that *does* support the kind of
tuning
> I
> want, i.e. any key to any pitch?
>
> M
>

Mark Gould wrote:

> Anyone care to recommend a keyboard that *does* support the kind of tuning I
> want, i.e. any key to any pitch?

Why do you say "keyboard"? It isn't the keyboard that does the tuning. The Korg Oasys PCI soundcard seems to have the same synthesis engine as the Z1. It supports full keyboard tuning through text files and has come down a lot in price.

The user's guide is online, and here's the relevant quote:

"""
Tuning can be specified separately for each of the 128 MIDI notes. Each note must
be on a separate line; blank lines are OK.
Each re-tuned note needs to have at least three entries: the incoming MIDI note, the
resulting pitch (a note name), and fine tuning (+/- 100 cents). Entries must be
separated by either spaces or tabs. Anything after the fine tuning is ignored, so you
can put comments at the ends of the lines.
For instance, below is a valid entry, including a comment, which causes a MIDI
note of D2 to be remapped to F3 (E3 plus 100 cents, a full half-step):
d2 E3 +100 D2 becomes F3.
There doesn�t need to be a line for every MIDI input note. If no re-tuning is
specified, that note will simply be sent straight through to its normal pitch, A1 to
A1, C#3 to C#3, etc. If you want to have an entry for every note, you can also just
map input straight to output, as shown below:
F4 F4 0 Also could simply not use an �F4� entry.
"""

Graham

Graham,

{you wrote...}
>Mark Gould wrote:
>
> > Anyone care to recommend a keyboard that *does* support the kind of > tuning I
> > want, i.e. any key to any pitch?
>
>Why do you say "keyboard"?

I can think of a few reasons:

1. A single, self-contained musical instrument that can do all of the above: trigger keys, emit sounds, be tuned an infinite number of ways.

2. Avoid having to go on stage (or in a concert setting) with a keyboard, a computer, a monitor, etc.

3. Someone who doesn't happen to live in the Wintel world.

I'm sure there are more. What you *do* have to say about the Oasys card sounds very nice, however. If they put that kind of engine in a keyboard with a good, weighted key action, you'd have a pretty powerful microtonal instrument all in one package.

If you stay in the bedroom or the studio, sure, a computer with a spare PCI slot might be another very good way to go.

BTW, are there widgets that would be a break-out box that would host PCI cards, connected to laptops through either USB 2.0 or Firewire? I realize there are a few add-on sound cards for laps that use either USB or pcmcia, but it would be interesting to have an Oasys card that could be driven by a laptop...

Thanks for the good, solid tuning info, Graham.

Cheers,
Jon

Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:

> I can think of a few reasons:

Yes, so can I, and I'll leave it to Mark to say if any of them are important, or he only used "keyboard" as shorthand. It'd be foolish not to mention something that may be suitable.

> 1. A single, self-contained musical instrument that can do all of the > above: trigger keys, emit sounds, be tuned an infinite number of ways.

Professional keyboards aren't self-contained -- you need to plug them into an amplifier or headphones.

> 2. Avoid having to go on stage (or in a concert setting) with a keyboard, a > computer, a monitor, etc.

The same applies to a rack module, which still isn't a keyboard.

> 3. Someone who doesn't happen to live in the Wintel world.

Mark's using Macintosh, and the Oasys PCI works with it.

> I'm sure there are more. What you *do* have to say about the Oasys card > sounds very nice, however. If they put that kind of engine in a keyboard > with a good, weighted key action, you'd have a pretty powerful microtonal > instrument all in one package.

A write-up I found for the Z1 says it does use the OASYS engine. The only problem is that they implemented the full keyboard tuning in a dumb way.

> If you stay in the bedroom or the studio, sure, a computer with a spare PCI > slot might be another very good way to go.

Or use the soundcard for experimentation, and then set up the keyboard with oscillator-key number scaling for live work.

> BTW, are there widgets that would be a break-out box that would host PCI > cards, connected to laptops through either USB 2.0 or Firewire? I realize > there are a few add-on sound cards for laps that use either USB or pcmcia, > but it would be interesting to have an Oasys card that could be driven by a > laptop...

Dunno. There are rack-mountable PCs with monitors that can be used on stage. You could also put a PC in a rack and connect to it from a laptop with VNC.

> Thanks for the good, solid tuning info, Graham.

That's okay, Jon

G,

{you wrote...}
>Professional keyboards aren't self-contained -- you need to plug them into >an amplifier or headphones.

Ah, yes, the same for *any* piece you'd drag up on stage or home.

>Mark's using Macintosh, and the Oasys PCI works with it.

Yow. I was not aware that the PCI architecture was supported outside of the PC world. That is *good* news (even though I don't own a Mac).

>Dunno. There are rack-mountable PCs with monitors that can be used on >stage. You could also put a PC in a rack and connect to it from a laptop >with VNC.

Still seems like a lot more hassle than if one (in a perfect world) could find it all in one package - a very portable thing called (in some places) a "keyboard". Me, I await the day of no-latency softsynths.

I just remembered the beast that would bridge both worlds we are talking about, but I can't find the link: that keyboard that incorporates an entire PC inside and is built to run softsynths. I'll look again...

Cheers,
Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>

> I just remembered the beast that would bridge both worlds we are talking
> about, but I can't find the link: that keyboard that incorporates an
entire
> PC inside and is built to run softsynths. I'll look again...

http://www.openlabs.com/products.php

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

D,

{you wrote...}
> > but I can't find the link: that keyboard that incorporates an entire
> > PC inside and is built to run softsynths. I'll look again...
>
>http://www.openlabs.com/products.php

Yao/Yo, that's it! Such a great idea, the only drawback being the cost. If money is no object, that would be a great thing to have. I've recently seen some great ideas in portability and quietude of a PC box that would mean with a keyboard, flatpanel LCD and a good soundcard, you could have a wonderful and small system for less money, all based around a little, less-than-shoebox sized computer:

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q4/shuttle-sb51g/index.x?pg=1

But maybe we're getting too far away from microtonal music making?

Cheers,
Jon