Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Re: [MMM] state of the microtone

Jeff,

{you wrote...}
>On THIS VERY LIST last year Catharsis surveyed all of us to find what tuning
>support we would need in the ultimate softsynth and after extensive
>opportunity for feedback

How much feedback was received? Just curious...

>he worked tirelessly for no reward with the NI guys to first convince them >to add the features because he told them there was this huge demand...

Well, *there* was his first error. I checked today: 124 members. Probably not all using synths, maybe more than a few not using computers as well. More in a moment...

>I even helped by contributing example scale files for testing! This was a >very exciting project. The first fully microtonal softsynth was being >built by the world leaders in intuitive full featured soft synths.

Then the process, and your help, must have been a fine reward.

>Why am I not surprised that one year later not a single person on this >list even knew offhand what the rist price was.

You don't know that - only one person asked, and maybe others are away from their computer or don't have it in their head or any number of other reasons. Maybe the others thought it was a bit steep for their needs, so they just forgot about it. Maybe they work in other ways (acoustic instruments, hardware synths, Csound, etc.). Me? I just invested short of that $$ amount in a vintage TX-802 last year, and haven't had enough free time to sort that out. And I bought it *in spite of the fact* that I am not a big fan of FM synthesis. And I say that knowing that I bought one of the first TX81Z modules when they were new (after having a DX7), and still have that plus another 81Z plus a DX11 (which is usually just used as my kbd controller).

And you want me to buy a new FM plugin synth? You wanna send me the free cash? :)

Another thing: we *all* work in different ways, and I've spent the last week, at night, downloading some of the various VST instruments I've heard about recently (sparked by Jacky's piece) and finding a suitable VST host program. I've been around this stuff a long time and it hasn't been easy to just get it going, but I did. And what I find - still - is that it is difficult to play them in realtime without significant latency periods. I DO NOT LIKE IT when I play the keys and the sound comes x milleseconds later, or hiccups.

I'm not saying the NI stuff works this way, though I have played with Kontakt and found similar problems.

Non-real-time sequencing and composing? Sure, I could do that, but sometimes I like to play the things and hear stuff that makes me curious or smile or whatever.

Just give 'us' a little break if 124 people didn't run out and get the download and pop for the cost. I'm sure people will. And those that don't shouldn't get slammed for it. If it turned out great, you can be a happy contributor. If it flys off the (virtual) shelves, excellent. But the world changes slowly, and people here are changing it in different ways, some big, some small. And some people, maybe, just want to make music and NOT lead a microtonal crusade. That's fine with me, too.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

X J wrote...

> The Fanatics on the Tuning list don't compose any so why
> the hell wolud they need instruments. You're all a bunch of phoneys

Heh heh... Having a bad day, eh?

Well, I looked at the FM7 way back when, and it didn't do what I wanted
then, and it was $300. I got on the NI mail list for info & updates, I
corresponded with them to tell them what I was looking for. I don't recall
seeing any big whoop-de-do about improvements in the FM7 that would have
made me change my mind, so it never re-entered my radar field.

But Big Tick's Rainbow 2.5 and Peter Frazer's Midicode sort of did what I
want and they have decent tuning support, and I interacted with the authors
and paid some money and bought them. And I have TX802s as well. Oh, yeah,
and I bought the VAZ2010 and the VAZ Modular as well, and those have decent
tuning also. And I'll get Big Tick's Rhino when that's available. I think
I'm spending quite enough money on soft synths, thank you. (VAZ Modular is
a nice VST 2.0 host, by the way!)

And I use these tools, at least a bit. I'm not complaining. Who's
complaining? I got tools that do what I want. There are lots of nice
synthesizers available these days! The state of the microtone is pretty
healthy.

Now if I didn't have to bring in the bacon, I'd have more time for making music.

Oh, and here's something. I was playing with the Rhino 0.9 demo and this
is some messing-around-on-the-keyboard improv with a harmonic tuning and a
patch that I called "Fuzzy China"... It's nothing to rave about, but what
the heck...

http://rm-and-jo.laughingsquid.org/Music/FuzzyChinaDemo.mp3

Cheers,

Rick

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Jeff,

{you wrote...}
>For God's sake Jon, write some microtonal music and put it out there.

I will when I have time to do justice to the music I'd like to make. I'm making music all the time, and it will have to fit in with the full plate.

>You're a fine composer and you of all people should be writing music.

Life is not easy right now, with many personal issues that come before my sitting down and composing music. I'll get back to it when everyone I help take care of is it good shape. If that is OK with you...

>That FM7 is an absolute steal for what it does.

Sure. Especially if you like FM sounds. And working in a computer/plugin environment. My point was that maybe, just *maybe* not everyone cares to work that way.

>Jeez, there's even a free demo!

I've been trying demos for a week. I'll try that one as well.

>I had to work in shitholes to save up for my first synthesizer which cost >$1995 (a DX7). This this is 3/20 that cost and does so much more and even >increases in
>capability and quality when people upgrade their computer or soundcard.
>Hardware synths don't do that.

Thanks. I figured that all out already.

>Everyone in this group had an opportunity to provide feedback if they >aren't satisfied with the microtuning facilities they have only themselves >to blame.

Right. Who said they were dissatisfied? You just roasted the entire list for not going out and buying it!

>But the fact is that this thing has more extensive microtonal support than >anything else out there so there is genuinely no excuse whatsover.

That's silly. What if you don't like the way it sounds? Doesn't that mean more than if it is the "most microtonal"? And since it's software, it will only get better. So maybe I'll wait. And maybe they'll fold. My dilemma, which I don't need to take grief over!

>The Fanatics on the Tuning list don't compose any so why the hell wolud >they need instruments. You're all a bunch of phoneys and I pity you >because you have so much potential you are squandering while the world >moves on.

I'd say at this point you owe quite a few people an apology.

>No one can save you from that but yourselves.

Then why berate 'us'?

>I think most of you are just a bunch of spoiled little brats and you need >to grow up.

If you'll take note of the main page of MMM, as well as the blurb that goes out to all new members, we strive to be civil. I won't say any more, assured that you can make your points without calling everyone names. And I think we would all appreciate that, as we appreciate your efforts in the development of this software.

Regards,
Jon

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

Speaking of Latency...

For what it's worth... I have a 1.8 GHz machine, and it runs pretty much
OK for real-time stuff and MIDI performance through Finale.

As far as keyboard latency when playing soft synths... I found the Big
Tick products (Rainbow, Rhino, Angelina) have fairly high latency and are
sluggish for playing real-time while in stand-alone mode, but once you put
them into a VST host (such as VAZ Modular) they are really fine. And the
VAZ line has fine response also. The latency isn't noticeable in any of
these... At least for my satisfaction when improvising and playing around.

The Midicode synth seems to have fine real-time response (it is
stand-alone only).

All of these synths seem to have a control setting for the "latency".

In VAZ I'm using 115ms latency.
In Rainbow, Angelina & Rhino I'm using a latency setting of 20 (millisecs?)
In Midicode I use 3 buffers of 50ms.

What are other people experiencing?

Rick

🔗pasport197 <pasport197@...> <pasport197@...>

Latency depends on sound card mostly, not on CPU.
I have 2ms on slower machine than yours with Audiophile card ($150)

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Rick McGowan <rick@u...>
wrote:
> Speaking of Latency...
>
> For what it's worth... I have a 1.8 GHz machine, and it runs pretty
much
> OK for real-time stuff and MIDI performance through Finale.
>
> As far as keyboard latency when playing soft synths... I found the
Big
> Tick products (Rainbow, Rhino, Angelina) have fairly high latency
and are
> sluggish for playing real-time while in stand-alone mode, but once
you put
> them into a VST host (such as VAZ Modular) they are really fine.
And the
> VAZ line has fine response also. The latency isn't noticeable in
any of
> these... At least for my satisfaction when improvising and playing
around.
>
> The Midicode synth seems to have fine real-time response (it is
> stand-alone only).
>
> All of these synths seem to have a control setting for
the "latency".
>
> In VAZ I'm using 115ms latency.
> In Rainbow, Angelina & Rhino I'm using a latency setting of 20
(millisecs?)
> In Midicode I use 3 buffers of 50ms.
>
> What are other people experiencing?
>
> Rick

Re: [MMM] state of the microtone

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@...>

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@...>

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

🔗pasport197 <pasport197@...> <pasport197@...>