Dumping on Scala with korg N5

Hi there, this is Alex, I've installed Scala about two weeks ago and
I'm still having problems sending the Scales to my synthesizer. Now
I'm looking for help on this message groups :)

I got a korg N5, now I don't know much about how scala sends the
scales to the synths, I set the synth to MIDI Standard Tuning and
nothing happened. I'm not a MIDI genius and I still didn't figure out
completely how the sysex messages work on this process of sending and
importing the scales.

Do I have to know all about sysex and program my own messages so I
can re-tune my keyboard, can you help with any information or
redirect me somewhere so I can find out if I have limits on N5, or if
I have to do something special so it can work with Scala?

Thanks a bunch

decuritiba@...

As far as I know the Korg N5 is not compatible with SCALA or the MIDI
tuning standard.

John Loffink
jloffink@...

>
> I got a korg N5, now I don't know much about how scala sends the
> scales to the synths, I set the synth to MIDI Standard Tuning and
> nothing happened. I'm not a MIDI genius and I still didn't figure out
> completely how the sysex messages work on this process of sending and
> importing the scales.
>
> Do I have to know all about sysex and program my own messages so I
> can re-tune my keyboard, can you help with any information or
> redirect me somewhere so I can find out if I have limits on N5, or if
> I have to do something special so it can work with Scala?

Alex,

I looked around a bit and found that the N5 is limited
to 12-note tuning with a range of -64..63 cents detuning
from equal temperament.
It also accepts XG messages, so if you make sure that
the XG system is turned on, you can use Scala to send
XG sysex files. Do "set synth 108" to select this type.
There's another command "set adjustment" that helps you
to stay within the allowable detuning range, if possible.
I can send you the N5 midi implementation file if you
want.

Manuel

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., manuel.op.de.coul@e... wrote:
> Alex,
>
> I looked around a bit and found that the N5 is limited
> to 12-note tuning with a range of -64..63 cents detuning
> from equal temperament.
> It also accepts XG messages, so if you make sure that
> the XG system is turned on, you can use Scala to send
> XG sysex files. Do "set synth 108" to select this type.
> There's another command "set adjustment" that helps you
> to stay within the allowable detuning range, if possible.
> I can send you the N5 midi implementation file if you
> want.
>
> Manuel

Hi manuel, this is Alex from Brazil

I think I got the Midi implementation file, I got it as N1_5v101.doc
(149k) somehwere. I also got N5 sysex messages and I learned how to
tune it by it and use it in a midi file. But it still seems kind of
complicated, and too much work.

Thaks a lot, yes, I set it to 108 and it work, now I gotta learn more
on jow to use this limitation, is it too much of a limitation or is
it ok to work with 12 notes tuning tables on Scala?

anyway, I guess I gotta learn how to work with the
keyboard mapping, that's what I'm trying to do now...

I wasn't able to use the set adjustment command, I didn't get it, on
the help file it direct me to other settings as show mapping, and set
middle, and set map_freq. I didn't get how this helps me keeping
inside my detuning limitation, damn. Actually it was confusing, it
sounded like if I change this things around I could expand my limits,
is it?

Oh Yes, I read something on the N5 manual that said that
RPN messages could detune a note in a range of -100 to
+100 cents. That's gotta be better than the -63 +63
SysEx range. But I've just NEVER heard about RPN
messages and I did'nt find any information on it, is
it easier to work than with SysEx messages?

Well, so if you can help me a bit more or redirect me somewhere, or
even if you can't that's ok. Thanks a lot man...
Cheers
Alex

Alex wrote:
>I think I got the Midi implementation file, I got it as N1_5v101.doc
>(149k) somehwere.

Yes, that's the same I saw.

>Thanks a lot, yes, I set it to 108 and it work, now I gotta learn more
>on jow to use this limitation, is it too much of a limitation or is
>it ok to work with 12 notes tuning tables on Scala?

Sure, you can work with scales of 12 notes and less.

>Actually it was confusing, it
>sounded like if I change this things around I could expand my limits,
>is it?

Sorry. It's not so complicated. For example you have a note
which is +80 cents from ET, then the "set adjustment" command will
move C (and all other notes) down a bit, let's say -20 cents, and
then the other note will be +60 cents, so within range.
So this will change the pitch of all notes. If you need a
specific pitch, then you have to set the master frequency on the
N5 by hand, taking the Scala C offset into account.

>Oh Yes, I read something on the N5 manual that said that
>RPN messages could detune a note in a range of -100 to
>+100 cents.

I didn't get that impression. I only see that detuning for the
OSC1 frequency. Hadn't heard about RPN messages too.

You can best study the keyboard mapping by choosing
Edit mapping in the Edit menu.
Good luck,

Manuel

Wow, that's been helpful, if you can't help me any
longer that's good enough for me, I finally got out of
the limb and could start retuning the N5! :)

> >it ok to work with 12 notes tuning tables on Scala?
>
> Sure, you can work with scales of 12 notes and less.

Yeah, sorry, that was a bit stupid, but that's the
begginer's life, that can be limiting, I can take
limits for now, but if I feel like getting into it for
real that'll be a problem in a while...

Do you know how I can find out wich ones of those
synths on the synth list are capable of full keyboard
tunning? Or how can I find out if a particular synth
or midi controler that's not on that list can do it?

> Sorry. It's not so complicated. For example you have
> a note
> which is +80 cents from ET, then the "set
> adjustment" command will
> move C (and all other notes) down a bit, let's say
> -20 cents, and
> then the other note will be +60 cents, so within
> range.

yeah, great, i had a scale and one note was supposed
to be detuned -80 cents, then I realized it didn't
detune at all cause it was out the range, after
setting the adjustment it retuned.

> So this will change the pitch of all notes. If you
> need a
> specific pitch, then you have to set the master
> frequency on the
> N5 by hand, taking the Scala C offset into account.

Now I noticed that ( C ) the first step of the scale,
(and all the others) were de-tuned a bit, so you mean
that I have to change the fine tuning on N5 to
compensate the Scala C offset, right? But how can I
precisely do that?

> Good luck,
>
> Manuel

thanks, best for you too lad.
cheers
alex

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Alex wrote:
>Do you know how I can find out wich ones of those
>synths on the synth list are capable of full keyboard tunning?

If you do "show synth" then the ones not having "(12 tones)"
in the description have full keyboard tuning.

>Or how can I find out if a particular synth
>or midi controler that's not on that list can do it?

Go to http://www.microtonalsynthesis.com

>Now I noticed that ( C ) the first step of the scale,
>(and all the others) were de-tuned a bit, so you mean
>that I have to change the fine tuning on N5 to
>compensate the Scala C offset, right? But how can I
>precisely do that?

There must be some function "master tuning" accessible
via the front panel.
Or via some other sysex code, but you can't do it with Scala.

Manuel

> >You're aying I have to change the tuning on N5 to
> >compensate the Scala C offset, right? But how can I
> >precisely do that?
>
> There must be some function "master tuning"
> accessible
> via the front panel.
> Or via some other sysex code, but you can't do it
> with Scala.

Sure, but I mean how do I know exactly how much I have
to re tune in the master tuning on my keyboard? Does
it show in scala how much the "set adjustment" changed
the tuning?

Oh well, thanks a lot, that should cover it all... if
I figure it out before you reply me i'll let you
know...

Cheers
Alex

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>Sure, but I mean how do I know exactly how much I have
>to re tune in the master tuning on my keyboard? Does
>it show in scala how much the "set adjustment" changed
>the tuning?

O yes, would have been nice if I'd mention that.
The offset in cents is shown with "send/screen" at note number
60, after you've done "set synth" of course (unless you've
changed the default 60 with "set middle").
The actual frequency to be compensated is shown with "show map".

Manuel

> The actual frequency to be compensated is shown with
> "show map".

Cool, I did figure that, but my master tuning on the
keyboard is in cents...

> The offset in cents is shown with "send/screen" at
> note number 60, after you've done "set synth" of
> course.

yep, that's the handy one, thanks a lot!!! I know I
read something about I don't know why I didn't get it
then, I guess it takes some time till you get familiar
with the thing, I guess I wrote "send screen", and not
"send/screen". Anyway I didn't know by then that this
would give me the detuning in cents, things are
getting clearer and easier now for me to find out...

Cheers
Alex

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> If you do "show synth" then the ones not having "(12
> tones)"
> in the description have full keyboard tuning.

what about those software synthesizers on that list? I
checked and they have full tuning, do you know if it's
good/easy/fast/ok to work with those toghether with
Scala?

cheers
alex

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Alex wrote:
>what about those software synthesizers on that list? I
>checked and they have full tuning, do you know if it's
>good/easy/fast/ok to work with those toghether with
>Scala?

Yes, see the archive of the MMM list.

Manuel