going offline, etc.

Sunday will be my last day online, and quite possibly for some time
too. Over the years I've exchanged CDs and whatnot through the mail
with some of you, but I'll no longer be at that address, so please
don't send anything there.

I'll keep some of my music online as well as some interviews and few
things I've written (like the homage to Ives and the Haverstick
interview). I'm also going to open up a Yahoo email address which I'll
hopefully have the occasion to check in on from time to time. I'll
post all these links when I'm sure they're up and running.

I'd be less than honest if I didn't say that I've felt a good deal of
frustration over the course of the last four years on these lists. But
there's also no mistaking that I've learned a lot and met some very
fine folks whom I'd be happy to call my friends--thanks to all of you!

I've come to the conclusion, and only lately really, that I honestly
think most of the folks that I've repeatedly clashed with here over
the years are folks that I'd get along a lot better with if I knew
them outside of this distortedly, one-dimensional medium. I wish I'd
realized this earlier. (I of course can't speak for anyone but myself,
but it's clear to me that this medium, and for that matter the
internet on the whole, is rather dehumanizing... and potentially
seriously so I think. Yes, the list of its virtues could easily go
long into the night, but it's inorganic and addictive and it seems to
me as though it throws a spookily monochrome blanket over everything
it touches too. No, you can't stop progress... but you can choose to
try and step out of its way.)

There are already many incredibly dedicated practitioners who have
cleared out their own areas in this field, and interest in
microtonality seems to be growing all the time. What the lists
probably suffer from most, in my opinion at least, is a stifling and
often times debilitating lack of diversity of input and contribution.

A concentrated few keep the ball rolling with admirable consistency
and as a result dictate the direction and content of the discourse. So
to all of you out there that are interested, stand up and be
counted... I'm sure there are people here who are dying to get a break
from the regularly scheduled programming!

take care,

--Dan Stearns

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:
> Sunday will be my last day online, and quite possibly for some time
> too. Over the years I've exchanged CDs and whatnot through the mail
> with some of you, but I'll no longer be at that address, so please
> don't send anything there.
>

[snip]

> take care,
>
> --Dan Stearns

Ugh... this is a pity. I had lunch with Joe Benzola yesterday and we
were talking about how your microtonal music is so fresh and lacking
in the absurd obsessive and combative geekery which seems to rule
this domain. Sadly, I think that the realm has attracted people who
are not really musicians, but are nerd/geek/obsessive-compulsive
types that would rather argue about notions of purity and detail
rather than getting down to the real work - that of rocking the
house.

The Internet makes these absurd pathetic combative types seem bigger
and more important than they really are - the proof is in the
pudding - the music - not the texts - not the diagrams - not the long-
winded explanations and diagrams.

Daniel, I'd suggest you take a deep breath and accept the fact that
this world isn't real and that it is extremely important that real
musicians such as yourself stay and perhaps not be as active on the
lists, but at least maintain a large and glorious presence here - if
not merely for the purpose of demonstrating that,

THE MUSIC COMES FIRST.

Disgusted and annoyed by it all...

jeff harrington
http://parnasse.com/jeff.htm - new music
http://netnewmusic.net - new music portal

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "idealordid" <jeff@p...> wrote:
> Ugh... this is a pity.

(Said about Dan's leaving the e-realm) Yep. I don't know what I'm going to do: Dan's is a voice I've counted on for a while now to add balance, sanity, and humanity to these forums. This is a gut-check time for me...

> Daniel, I'd suggest you take a deep breath and accept the fact that
> this world isn't real and that it is extremely important that real
> musicians such as yourself stay and perhaps not be as active on the
> lists, but at least maintain a large and glorious presence here -
> if not merely for the purpose of demonstrating that,
>
> THE MUSIC COMES FIRST.

Which is, hopefully, why *this* particular corner exists: to help make that happen. If people only come by for advice and then leave to actually DO it, that is a very fine thing.

> Disgusted and annoyed by it all...

No reason we can't try to live up to Dan's example, though - he was an island of reality amidst the wash of ... the other stuff.

Regards,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "idealordid" <jeff@p...> wrote:

> Sadly, I think that the realm has attracted people who
> are not really musicians, but are nerd/geek/obsessive-compulsive
> types that would rather argue about notions of purity and detail
> rather than getting down to the real work - that of rocking the
> house.

a message from one who "rocks the house" on a regular basis:

some would argue that people who sit around for hours making a
computer simulate druggy rock improvisations are the
nerd/geek/obsessive-compulsive types, while those who have dedicated
hours every day for most of their lives to perfecting the art of
psychedelic electric guitar performance are the real musicians.

thankfully, none of us (i think) are in the third grade anymore, so
we don't have to descend to this level.

> THE MUSIC COMES FIRST.
>
> Disgusted and annoyed by it all...

go perform your music in front of a live audience. whenever i'm
feeling digusted and annoyed by internet discussions (like right now,
thank you), it never lasts longer than until the next warm reception
(to my emotional outpourings on the guitar) from human beings in
direct, face to face contact. works like a charm.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "idealordid" <jeff@p...> wrote:
>
> > Sadly, I think that the realm has attracted people who
> > are not really musicians, but are nerd/geek/obsessive-compulsive
> > types that would rather argue about notions of purity and detail
> > rather than getting down to the real work - that of rocking the
> > house.
>
> a message from one who "rocks the house" on a regular basis:
>
> some would argue that people who sit around for hours making a
> computer simulate druggy rock improvisations are the
> nerd/geek/obsessive-compulsive types, while those who have
dedicated
> hours every day for most of their lives to perfecting the art of
> psychedelic electric guitar performance are the real musicians.
>

I think you're missing the point - or maybe you're actually
demonstrating my point -
that its the music that counts - not the bickering about tunings.

You can pretend not to bash, pretend not to argue, and
posit 'comments' like above, but the fact remains that this scene is
haunted by pathetic souls (unlike you?) who would rather argue than
jam.

> thankfully, none of us (i think) are in the third grade anymore, so
> we don't have to descend to this level.
>

What's funny is that the game-playing you're indulging in now -
pretending not to have attempted to insult - is the type of behavior
that is driving away Dan. Did you have something to say except to
cowardly suggest that my music sucks because it ain't real? That's
laughable in 2002. Real is what doesn't suck.

> > THE MUSIC COMES FIRST.
> >
> > Disgusted and annoyed by it all...
>
> go perform your music in front of a live audience. whenever i'm
> feeling digusted and annoyed by internet discussions (like right
now,
> thank you), it never lasts longer than until the next warm
reception
> (to my emotional outpourings on the guitar) from human beings in
> direct, face to face contact. works like a charm.

Again, not the point - the point IS the music - not the pretenses nor
the 'i'm cooler because i'm live' - the music itself.

And not the 'tuning' nor the 'system' nor the 'et or not'.

THE MUSIC. I believe you believe the same thing, but you want to
attack me for saying something so simple and commonsensical. And
this useless argumentative behavior is what is driving away great
musicians like Dan.

Bickering, arguing, flaming, are all pointless. And likely
indicative of a lost sense of self in my world. I don't know your
music, but considering your behavior - as a lurker on these threads -
I'm not exactly curious. Listen, I stay away from a lot of these
boards except to make the occasional comment or announcement for the
same reason Dan is leaving. These boards have become practically
useless because of their domination by the 'arguers'.

Best wishes regardless and happy music-making...

jeff harrington
http://parnasse.com/jeff.htm - new music
http://netnewmusic.net - new music portal

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "idealordid" <jeff@p...> wrote:

> but the fact remains that this scene is
> haunted by pathetic souls (unlike you?) who would rather argue than
> jam.

in ascii text media such as this "scene", it's a heck of a lot easier
to debate than to jam. don't care to debate? just want to jam? then
turn off your internet connection, and come over to my place at 5
o'clock.

> > thankfully, none of us (i think) are in the third grade anymore,
so
> > we don't have to descend to this level.
> >
>
> What's funny is that the game-playing you're indulging in now -
> pretending not to have attempted to insult

i didn't attempt to insult -- i simply referred to another example
(one i've actually heard) of the type of low-brow comment you made,
to get the point across. i would never, ever, ever make a comment
like that myself -- i put it there for illustrative purposes!

> Did you have something to say except to
> cowardly suggest that my music sucks because it ain't real? That's
> laughable in 2002. Real is what doesn't suck.

that's exactly my point! the comment served to illustrate the
laughability of this kind of thinking.

> Again, not the point - the point IS the music - not the pretenses
nor
> the 'i'm cooler because i'm live'

again, you're misreading my intent! i just meant that you don't
*need* these internet fora if debating theory or whatnot doesn't
interest you -- getting real responses from real live people will
wash away the frustration you may have from getting mired up in the
faceless debates. maybe it was a stupid piece of advice, but i would
never, ever try to posture that 'i'm cooler because i'm live' or
anything like that. the point of my response was to try to get across
that behind every internet geekism there's a living, breathing human
being, with ears -- some of whom have virtually no musical talent,
some of whom are great composers -- and that generalizations and name-
calling of the sort you indulged in aren't going to help you, or the
cause of "music for music's sake", or whatever. there's a long
tradition of extended theorizing on the part of fine musicians, from
vicentino to rameau to bruckner to schoenberg to partch -- some
people just have intellectual curiosity that can't help but inquire
in that direction. so the inquiry doesn't interest you. perhaps you
feel it's all a "religion" or something. well, treat it with the same
respect you'd treat those of a different religious persuasion in real
life. that's all i'm trying to say.

> Bickering, arguing, flaming, are all pointless.

level-headed debate is not pointless. if pursued with respect,
honesty, and an attempt at intelligence.

> Best wishes regardless and happy music-making...

same to you, and as a fellow human being, much love to you.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "idealordid" <jeff@p...> wrote:
>
> > but the fact remains that this scene is
> > haunted by pathetic souls (unlike you?) who would rather argue
than
> > jam.
>
> in ascii text media such as this "scene", it's a heck of a lot
easier
> to debate than to jam. don't care to debate? just want to jam? then
> turn off your internet connection, and come over to my place at 5
> o'clock.
>

Thanks for the invitation, but I'm going to be busy listening to
music and drinking wine in my garden... my intent, FWIW, was never to
insult, but to point to 'geeky' attacking behaviors which I find
pointless.

Regardless, I've been hoping that this list wouldn't degenerate into
the 'tuning' list's constant theoretical debate and talk more about
music and how it works or music and criticism or music and
production.

Have a good weekend, one thing you always evince, Paul, and that is a
gentlemanly demeanor.

:)

jeff harrington
http://parnasse.com/jeff.htm - new music
http://netnewmusic.net - new music portal

Ladies and gentlemen,

I tried to get out of my funk of knowing Dan Stearns has left the building by doing incredibly physical labor in the yard. Only helped a little. But while many of us will stay grumpy, I'd like to suggest we take this thread, if anything else needs discussing, to metatuning. Let's try and stay focused on music for the here and now.

And, as your host and the punk who started this place, I feel I have to address one particular comment from Jeff (because it directly pertains to the purpose of this list):

>Regardless, I've been hoping that this list wouldn't degenerate into the >'tuning' list's constant theoretical debate and talk more about music and >how it works or music and criticism or music and production.

Ahem, that was my intent as well. Problem is that occasionally one of these topics will come up in passing, and I don't think it's a good way to moderate a list by immediately stepping on such commentaries, like scuttling cockroaches, just to be the Big Cheese.

I've stopped threads before, and I think MakingMicrotonalMusic has kept a pretty good balance on the actualities of living up to it's name. So, Jeff, you're always welcome to share more about your ways, reasons, and practicalities of producing your music, just as others try to share. And I'll tell you, flat out, that from personal email I've received there have been a lot of problems solved, a fair amount of productivity enhances, and a bit more music made because this list churns on.

I just hope I get out of my funk before wanting to stop all this.

Cheers,
Jon (ListMom, who will always listen to complaints off-list as well...)